Holy Moly...

[Leylin Cassiel]

Van's "pronouns" line in chapter 4 comes out of nowhere and is super out of place (feels forced). What the heck?! Super subtle (lol). Is that line the same in the original (japanese) version?

Quatre is a weirdo.

The game is enjoyable, sure, but lines such as this one really take me out of immersion.

[Seraph]

In Japanese, Van awkwardly asks if Quatre goes by the honorific "Chan" or "Kun" which have feminine and masculine connotations respectively. The implication being that Van is unsure about Quatre's gender and is trying to figure it out without directly confronting him on it.

There's no direct translation for this but the one they used in the game is accurate. They could have also had Van ask about using "Mr" or "Miss" but these are explicitly gendered terms in English while "Chan" and "Kun" are not. This would also make the question much more direct than it was supposed to be. Asking which pronouns Quatre prefers (or phrased another way, asking if he prefers being addressed in a feminine or masculine manner) more accurately communicates the intent of the Japanese line.

[Leylin Cassiel]

Originally posted by Seraph:

In Japanese, Van awkwardly asks if Quatre goes by the honorific "Chan" or "Kun" which have feminine and masculine connotations respectively. The implication being that Van is unsure about Quatre's gender and is trying to figure it out without directly confronting him on it.

There's no direct translation for this but the one they used in the game is accurate. They could have also had Van ask about using "Mr" or "Miss" but these are explicitly gendered terms in English while "Chan" and "Kun" are not. This would also make the question much more direct than it was supposed to be. Asking which pronouns Quatre prefers (or phrased another way, asking if he prefers being addressed in a feminine or masculine manner) more accurately communicates the intent of the Japanese line.

"Uhm, sorry but are you a girl or a boy?" Sufficiently awkward and direct (maybe even a bit offensive), no pronouns related bs. Quatre could be a crossdresser for all that Van knows.

Politics in games is so incredibly unnecessary. Shame.

In any case, thank you for the response! ;)

[Ogami]

Originally posted by Leylin Cassiel:

"Uhm, sorry but are you a girl or a boy?"

No that would be a terrible translation because Van explicitly did not ask that in Japanese.
He danced around the question and asked about gendered suffix preference for their name.
The English translation is fine. Just because you suffer from massive brainrot and see "woke" everywhere the rest of us does not need to suffer from crappy translations to cater to your kind.

[Leylin Cassiel]

Originally posted by Ogami:

Originally posted by Leylin Cassiel:

"Uhm, sorry but are you a girl or a boy?"

No that would be a terrible translation because Van explicitly did not ask that in Japanese.
He danced around the question and asked about gendered suffix preference for their name.
The English translation is fine. Just because you suffer from massive brainrot and see "woke" everywhere the rest of us does not need to suffer from crappy translations to cater to your kind.

Touched a nerve or something?

Van sounds incredibly out of character and it's mainly due to the current (and horrible) translation. "Gender suffix preference" is not the same as "preferred pronoun". Equalizing the two is incredibly dishonest.

Feel free to disagree, though, not like NISA will listen to reason and keep their officially contracted translators in check.

If it makes them enough money, fan backlash/disputes do not matter.

Cheers!

[Reitschuster]

Chan and kun don't have inherent male connotations. Kun has masculine connotations somewhat, but it's also used for girls, in Trails as well. All in all, the whole thing is weird even in Japanese because the Japanese norm would be to assume the sex, and if you're wrong you apologize. There's no question though that the translation did a terrible job with the scene, though.

[Leylin Cassiel]

Originally posted by Reitschuster:

Chan and kun don't have inherent male connotations. Kun has masculine connotations somewhat, but it's also used for girls, in Trails as well. All in all, the whole thing is weird even in Japanese because the Japanese norm would be to assume the sex, and if you're wrong you apologize. There's no question though that the translation did a terrible job with the scene, though.

What I've managed to gather from my own brief research and the responses to this thread:

1. The suffixes (honorifics) "-chan" and "-kun", while not decisively attached to a specific gender, are loosely (keyword - loosely; lots of exceptions) connected to speech/words that refer to females and males respectively.
2. These honorifics do not (in any way, shape or form) relate to the western idea of pronouns and should not be treated and translated as such.
3. Van wanted to ask Quatre, in a roundabout/indirect way, about his gender (he saw a very feminine dude who dresses like a girl and was rightfully confused). To that end, he asked him which he should use when referring to him (-chan or -kun).
3a. While the japanese version makes this interaction feel "natural" but weird (because it is), the english translation makes Van say something he would never normaly say (it's very much out of character for him, which is why you see so many people mention in here).
3b. To top it off, the entire "pronoun" thing in the western side of the media, is an incredibly politically and ideologically loaded topic, unlike what the "-chan" and "-kun" suffixes are treated like in Japan.
4. The translators responsible for this mess up were either:
4a. ignorant buffons, who do not care about the quality of their translations.
4b. ideologically driven drones, who wanted to inject their own agenda.
4c. both.

While I don't fully agree with the response I've decided to highlight in this thread, it at least provides enough information for someone to look stuff up for themselves (I hope).

In any case, I'm dipping out now.

Peace!

[thateclipse]

Quatre's clothing isn't the least bit feminine when compared to the usual Trails standards.

[thomaskuznicki]

It felt odd and awkward to me too, but when you advance the story you learn it isn't a cheap attempt to dive into the gender wars.

[Joeystick]

Originally posted by Leylin Cassiel:

Originally posted by Seraph:

In Japanese, Van awkwardly asks if Quatre goes by the honorific "Chan" or "Kun" which have feminine and masculine connotations respectively. The implication being that Van is unsure about Quatre's gender and is trying to figure it out without directly confronting him on it.

There's no direct translation for this but the one they used in the game is accurate. They could have also had Van ask about using "Mr" or "Miss" but these are explicitly gendered terms in English while "Chan" and "Kun" are not. This would also make the question much more direct than it was supposed to be. Asking which pronouns Quatre prefers (or phrased another way, asking if he prefers being addressed in a feminine or masculine manner) more accurately communicates the intent of the Japanese line.

"Uhm, sorry but are you a girl or a boy?" Sufficiently awkward and direct (maybe even a bit offensive), no pronouns related bs. Quatre could be a crossdresser for all that Van knows.

Politics in games is so incredibly unnecessary. Shame.

In any case, thank you for the response! ;)

And this is precisely why you're not in charge of translation or localization. This person gave you an insanely educated, and nuance response and you're answer is, eww politics? This is not what is going on here no matter how much bend over backwards and try to make it into an issue where there is none. But of course someone who isn't bilingual wouldn't know the first thing about nuance to a language so it's not shocking to me. Shut up and enjoy the game. Thanks.

[thateclipse]

Originally posted by Joeystick:

Shut up and enjoy the game. Thanks.

The gaming world would be a much better place if more people heeded this advice.

[rachaellikesblue]

I don't understand why people think it's so out of character for Van to ask about someone's pronouns, anyway. Van takes jobs from a lot of different people, so it makes sense that he'd be aware of etiquette among various identities and/or subcultures, including people who are LGBT+ and might exist outside the gender binary. It's not really surprising to me at all.

[thateclipse]

Originally posted by rachaellikesblue:

I don't understand why people think it's so out of character for Van to ask about someone's pronouns, anyway. Van takes jobs from a lot of different people, so it makes sense that he'd be aware of etiquette among various identities and/or subcultures, including people who are LGBT+ and might exist outside the gender binary. It's not really surprising to me at all.

Certain demographics appreciate the question, that I won't argue. Could Van have known that Quatre was from one of those demographics just by the interactions they had at that point?

[Mr.Mostache]

Originally posted by thateclipse:

Originally posted by rachaellikesblue:

I don't understand why people think it's so out of character for Van to ask about someone's pronouns, anyway. Van takes jobs from a lot of different people, so it makes sense that he'd be aware of etiquette among various identities and/or subcultures, including people who are LGBT+ and might exist outside the gender binary. It's not really surprising to me at all.

Certain demographics appreciate the question, that I won't argue. Could Van have known that Quatre was from one of those demographics just by the interactions they had at that point?

Van has his "sense of smell" that makes him suspects that something is off, which is why he was the only one that shows confusion in that scene. Like you said, Quatre isn't even that androgynous and other characters even says as much.

That being said, the line still feels off in both character and translation reasons, but I already talked too much about it in other threads. The localization even makes Van way TOO informal: "Sup, you our client? Cool! Gimme the details". He is never concerned with etiquette and formalities when talking to his clients.

[Reitschuster]

Originally posted by Mr.Mostache:

Originally posted by thateclipse:

Certain demographics appreciate the question, that I won't argue. Could Van have known that Quatre was from one of those demographics just by the interactions they had at that point?

That being said, the line still feels off in both character and translation reasons, but I already talked too much about it in other threads. The localization even makes Van way TOO informal: "Sup, you our client? Cool! Gimme the details". He is never concerned with etiquette and formalities when talking to his clients.

It's how the localizers imagine a fixer.
Disconnection from reality is a problem unfortunately not only with writers but also localizers, as this seems to evidence.

[rachaellikesblue]

Originally posted by thateclipse:

Certain demographics appreciate the question, that I won't argue. Could Van have known that Quatre was from one of those demographics just by the interactions they had at that point?

Not necessarily, but it's a more diplomatic question than "Are you a boy or a girl?" since there was a possibility that Quatre may be neither or both, especially since Van couldn't tell.

Anyway I'm not saying there weren't other ways the line could have been translated. I'm just saying that, in my opinion, it doesn't feel odd that Van might ask about pronouns.