Did you like the story? (Spoilers most likely)

[Johnathon Fortnite]

I have cold steel, reverie and daybreak on playstation. I love sky to an unhealthy degree and cold steel has some serious writing problems but it's at least fun.

This game is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mess. I'm 40 hours in and bored as ♥♥♥♥. I just read the story synopsis on wikipedia and ♥♥♥♥ me. This ♥♥♥♥ sucks ass. Tf happened? Why is that where the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ story went?

Bit of a weird franchise as a whole but jesus christ. I'm not alone in thinking the writing has taken a giant dump am I?

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ demon king. What is this tears of the kingdom?

[Reitschuster]

Originally posted by Ogami:

Yeah , Almata were really weak as the villains. Melchior was amusing in a kind of "Joker from Batman" kinda way in just enjoying the carnage he creates but the rest?
All their characters came down to " i was treated bad, here is my sobstory, now i am chaotic evil and want the world to burn".
Thats super weak and kindergarten level of motivation.
Also, maybe i did miss it but at the end it was still not clear to me how Almata did rise from being a nothing low tier mafia organisation to basically being the top dogs and also why they had access to all the Octogenesis devices.
Was that ever explained where they got them from and how they exactly knew what each of them could do?
I felt that was kind of a plothole at the end. Maybe i just did not pay enough attention because by the last chapter i just wanted to finish it.
And its been like a year since i finished the fantranslation version.

They had agency instead of all villains from before who were basically either roadblocks or evil because they must take down the evil path (Loewe), or they were manipulated (Alan Richard), or deluded (Grimwood) and were unapologetic instead of the previous villains who always stood in your way but lamented the fact that they did as if being sorry would somehow excuse them (or backtracked outwards like Alan Richard or Grimwood), that was actually way worse writing. Some Almata members are really pathetic but also it fits because many criminals are. I don't have a problem, and it's levels above the writing of the previous trails installments inherently for the above written reasons.
As for how they rose up, it was explained. Almata already existed as a somewhat prominent, but not a dominant organization but was held back by a weak leader. Dantes took over and utilized everything for maximum efficiency. Dantes had knowledge of the Octogenesis devices due to the fact he hailed from the Calvardian royal family and also was a priest in the DG cult, like Joachim in crosstrails 2 who knew a lot about the world.
They also did not have access to all of the Octogeneses, just most of them. And in some chapters, like Chapter 2, they obtained them shortly before the story, so they were actively looking for them. For many other chapters I don't remember it being explained but seemed to have been actively looking for them and got ahold of them because they had concrete information as to what they were and where they were, the other organizations were ignorant and didn't pay it any mind. Don't really consider that a plot hole.

[Reitschuster]

For me, it's even a selling point of the game. Criminals are not supposed to be likable or invoking interest, they're just bad people and this game does more justice to represent that than any of the previous games. I don't want to ever experience Rixia whining about her miserable life in that she cant' choose whether she wants to be a criminal or not, shifts the blame onto her criminal actions onto an imagined 2nd personality of Yin, breaks away from Heiyue for the most pathetic reason that she was exposed, and then goes back anyway because she says she owes them everything and then Lloyd is like "yeah, I understand that", and "we need an informant in Heieyue (Cs5)" when at the same time the SSS grasped at straws for anything Revache + Hartmann and accused them of all possible sins even when they absolved them of the blame for everything (being drugged, being blackmailed). And I'm not even talking about the entire premise of crosstrails being that KeA is the main and the most dominant motivation for everything that happens, otherwise Crossbell may as well be damned. This is terrible, completely childish, illogical and stupid writing and none of this exists in this game, but somehow people love the old games and hate the newer ones like coldtrails and daytrails even when objectively the writing is much superior, on account of completely arbitrary reasons.
I think when you can't tell a clearly childish story apart from one that is not, it's just indicative of infantility of the mind.
Looking forward to the next games, doesn't matter if by the time of their release they get heavily disliked.

[ToxiCyborg]

Originally posted by Reitschuster:

For me, it's even a selling point of the game. Criminals are not supposed to be likable or invoking interest, they're just bad people and this game does more justice to represent that than any of the previous games. I don't want to ever experience Rixia whining about her miserable life in that she cant' choose whether she wants to be a criminal or not, shifts the blame onto her criminal actions onto an imagined 2nd personality of Yin, breaks away from Heiyue for the most pathetic reason that she was exposed, and then goes back anyway because she says she owes them everything and then Lloyd is like "yeah, I understand that", and "we need an informant in Heieyue (Cs5)" when at the same time the SSS grasped at straws for anything Revache + Hartmann and accused them of all possible sins even when they absolved them of the blame for everything (being drugged, being blackmailed). And I'm not even talking about the entire premise of crosstrails being that KeA is the main and the most dominant motivation for everything that happens, otherwise Crossbell may as well be damned. This is terrible, completely childish, illogical and stupid writing and none of this exists in this game, but somehow people love the old games and hate the newer ones like coldtrails and daytrails even when objectively the writing is much superior, on account of completely arbitrary reasons.
I think when you can't tell a clearly childish story apart from one that is not, it's just indicative of infantility of the mind.
Looking forward to the next games, doesn't matter if by the time of their release they get heavily disliked.

My thoughts exactly!

The whole point with Almata is being despicable bad guys who you can actually beat and even kill in battle.

For 20 years this series has being about facing ouroborus, and when you defeat them in battle they will be like: "hahaha, you're so weak it didn't even tickle me!" or "You bested me here but that means nothing, everything is acording to the grandmaster's plan!" or lastly: "you completely disrupted our plans, but that doesn't matter anyway cause that was just a step towards our bigger next plan!"...

If they choose to put ouroborus as the badguys in daybreak it would be all the same again. So they made the right decision to save facing Ouroborus in the series ending and use some despicable disposable bad guys to tell Calvard arcs, a right decision in my opinion.

With all that said, you can't possibily argue that characters like Olympia or Melchior were poorly made bad guys, honestly, they're pretty unique characters.

[Reitschuster]

Originally posted by ToxiCyborg:

Originally posted by Reitschuster:

For me, it's even a selling point of the game. Criminals are not supposed to be likable or invoking interest, they're just bad people and this game does more justice to represent that than any of the previous games. I don't want to ever experience Rixia whining about her miserable life in that she cant' choose whether she wants to be a criminal or not, shifts the blame onto her criminal actions onto an imagined 2nd personality of Yin, breaks away from Heiyue for the most pathetic reason that she was exposed, and then goes back anyway because she says she owes them everything and then Lloyd is like "yeah, I understand that", and "we need an informant in Heieyue (Cs5)" when at the same time the SSS grasped at straws for anything Revache + Hartmann and accused them of all possible sins even when they absolved them of the blame for everything (being drugged, being blackmailed). And I'm not even talking about the entire premise of crosstrails being that KeA is the main and the most dominant motivation for everything that happens, otherwise Crossbell may as well be damned. This is terrible, completely childish, illogical and stupid writing and none of this exists in this game, but somehow people love the old games and hate the newer ones like coldtrails and daytrails even when objectively the writing is much superior, on account of completely arbitrary reasons.
I think when you can't tell a clearly childish story apart from one that is not, it's just indicative of infantility of the mind.
Looking forward to the next games, doesn't matter if by the time of their release they get heavily disliked.

My thoughts exactly!

The whole point with Almata is being despicable bad guys who you can actually beat and even kill in battle.

For 20 years this series has being about facing ouroborus, and when you defeat them in battle they will be like: "hahaha, you're so weak it didn't even tickle me!" or "You bested me here but that means nothing, everything is acording to the grandmaster's plan!" or lastly: "you completely disrupted our plans, but that doesn't matter anyway cause that was just a step towards our bigger next plan!"...

If they choose to put ouroborus as the badguys in daybreak it would be all the same again. So they made the right decision to save facing Ouroborus in the series ending and use some despicable disposable bad guys to tell Calvard arcs, a right decision in my opinion.

With all that said, you can't possibily argue that characters like Olympia or Melchior were poorly made bad guys, honestly, they're pretty unique characters.

I agree! It was most definitely a good decision to make them like this, exactly like this, for writing purposes (once again, they finally have agency, they're unapologetic and they do actually terrible things that you despise them for). What people seem to want is to have romantic criminals with some sort of greater purpose, who are actually kind people you can sympathize with. Lots of games do that, but it's a complete representation of criminals, even in Japan where they are the most tame and useful to society. I don't want this.

A good thing this time around is that they are also diverse, while yes, Alexandre and Viola are basically pathetic people. But Olympia is just an empty shell. And Melchior is a completely unapologetic character who sticks to his guns until he dies (and gets no sympathy from characters as a result, which is also different for Trails). Dantes is the most sympathetic person of Almata, mostly by the virtue of being well-behaved and polite, I actually like how he was handled by Van's crew. They offered him to surrender, but he didn't. That was good.

Also Ouroboros finally did something that was actually menacing this time instead of being a literal roadblock, they tried to gas Almata, which by Trails standards is an extremely brutal way to get rid of people. I don't understand how people make fun of them while saying they were menacing in the old games when they were literally not. Just a collection of good guys who are barely even organized in that they just do whatever they want, can just leave and go. It's unserious. This time around Ouroboros actually got its ♥♥♥♥ together.

[Book]

Originally posted by Reitschuster:

Originally posted by ToxiCyborg:

My thoughts exactly!

The whole point with Almata is being despicable bad guys who you can actually beat and even kill in battle.

For 20 years this series has being about facing ouroborus, and when you defeat them in battle they will be like: "hahaha, you're so weak it didn't even tickle me!" or "You bested me here but that means nothing, everything is acording to the grandmaster's plan!" or lastly: "you completely disrupted our plans, but that doesn't matter anyway cause that was just a step towards our bigger next plan!"...

If they choose to put ouroborus as the badguys in daybreak it would be all the same again. So they made the right decision to save facing Ouroborus in the series ending and use some despicable disposable bad guys to tell Calvard arcs, a right decision in my opinion.

With all that said, you can't possibily argue that characters like Olympia or Melchior were poorly made bad guys, honestly, they're pretty unique characters.

I agree! It was most definitely a good decision to make them like this, exactly like this, for writing purposes (once again, they finally have agency, they're unapologetic and they do actually terrible things that you despise them for). What people seem to want is to have romantic criminals with some sort of greater purpose, who are actually kind people you can sympathize with. Lots of games do that, but it's a complete representation of criminals, even in Japan where they are the most tame and useful to society. I don't want this.

A good thing this time around is that they are also diverse, while yes, Alexandre and Viola are basically pathetic people. But Olympia is just an empty shell. And Melchior is a completely unapologetic character who sticks to his guns until he dies (and gets no sympathy from characters as a result, which is also different for Trails). Dantes is the most sympathetic person of Almata, mostly by the virtue of being well-behaved and polite, I actually like how he was handled by Van's crew. They offered him to surrender, but he didn't. That was good.

Also Ouroboros finally did something that was actually menacing this time instead of being a literal roadblock, they tried to gas Almata, which by Trails standards is an extremely brutal way to get rid of people. I don't understand how people make fun of them while saying they were menacing in the old games when they were literally not. Just a collection of good guys who are barely even organized in that they just do whatever they want, can just leave and go. It's unserious. This time around Ouroboros actually got its ♥♥♥♥ together.

Ouroborus' portrayal is horrible in Daybreak. In Trails SC they were this mysterious, intimidating terrorist organization. Here they are cartoon villains. We even see one of their highest-ranking members casually hanging out in a shopping mall minding his own business. It completely ruins the mystique they had in the original trilogy. Granted the Coldsteel games were bad about this too (like the part where Shirley challenges you to a swimming contest), but it is even worse in Daybreak. In Trails SC Walter tried to destroy a whole city and talks about how much he loves killing people, here everyone treats him like he's just an edgy martial artist, and even Zin seems to be on good terms with him. Ouroborus in Daybreak are about as threatening as Team Rocket from Pokémon.

[zefyris]

The overarching story of daybreak is basically its weakest point, and the main reason why to me Zero is still the best entry in this franchise. Pretty much every single thing in Daybreak is the best it has ever been in the franchise, or at the very least top 3 when it's not the best; but the story isn't.

I wouldn't say it's as bad as you put it OP, but it's certainly a shame that the game failed to deliver on this point.

[Book]

Originally posted by zefyris:

The overarching story of daybreak is basically its weakest point, and the main reason why to me Zero is still the best entry in this franchise. Pretty much every single thing in Daybreak is the best it has ever been in the franchise, or at the very least top 3 when it's not the best; but the story isn't.

I wouldn't say it's as bad as you put it OP, but it's certainly a shame that the game failed to deliver on this point.

I'm glad you enjoyed it, but what exactly did you like about Daybreak? I thought the gameplay was a big step down from Reverie. There is less character customization in this one and the Holocores aren't as interesting as the Master Quartzes from Coldsteel and Reverie. Brave Orders are gone too, and I was also disappointed that they removed the ability to steal critical hits using S-Breaks. Furthermore I felt that Daybreak was the easiest game in the series. Enemies simply don't do enough damage to be threatening in this game. I get that they wanted to make a more accessible game for new players but they took it too far.

[rachaellikesblue]

Originally posted by Bookworm:

I wouldn't mind the cast if their bond felt more natural, but it seems like the party become friends in an unrealistically short timespan.

As far as the music, I thought Grimcat's theme was really good.

I agree the villains are reprehensible, but they weren't really interesting either. You can have a villain who is irredeemable but still has an interesting motive for why they do evil things.

That's understandable, but I feel like Trails has always been like this re: character bonds. In fact, it's a common theme in Japanese media. In Magic Knight Rayearth, Hikaru, Umi, and Fuu barely know each other before they're willing to lay down their lives for each other. Same with Usagi and the other girls in Sailor Moon. And Rean didn't really know Crow for that long before the end of CS1.

There's also the fact that, except for Risette and maybe Agnes (in the beginning, anyway), Van went through some extremely emotional and violent scenarios with his recruits. Those kinds of situations tend to forge bonds very quickly.

Ignoring the other members of Almata, what did you think of Arioch? He was probably my favorite member. There was something about his backstory and death that seemed very human to me, even though it wasn't a sob story or anything. Maybe because it was much more subtle than those of Viola, Alexandre, and Olympia. I also thought it was fun how he would randomly appear in battles.

Embarrassingly, I can't remember how Grimcat's theme goes. I guess more ambient music tends to stick out to me, like Tharbad Night. It's been my favorite since before the game came out.

[Book]

Originally posted by rachaellikesblue:

Originally posted by Bookworm:

I wouldn't mind the cast if their bond felt more natural, but it seems like the party become friends in an unrealistically short timespan.

As far as the music, I thought Grimcat's theme was really good.

I agree the villains are reprehensible, but they weren't really interesting either. You can have a villain who is irredeemable but still has an interesting motive for why they do evil things.

That's understandable, but I feel like Trails has always been like this re: character bonds. In fact, it's a common theme in Japanese media. In Magic Knight Rayearth, Hikaru, Umi, and Fuu barely know each other before they're willing to lay down their lives for each other. Same with Usagi and the other girls in Sailor Moon. And Rean didn't really know Crow for that long before the end of CS1.

There's also the fact that, except for Risette and maybe Agnes (in the beginning, anyway), Van went through some extremely emotional and violent scenarios with his recruits. Those kinds of situations tend to forge bonds very quickly.

Ignoring the other members of Almata, what did you think of Arioch? He was probably my favorite member. There was something about his backstory and death that seemed very human to me, even though it wasn't a sob story or anything. Maybe because it was much more subtle than those of Viola, Alexandre, and Olympia. I also thought it was fun how he would randomly appear in battles.

Embarrassingly, I can't remember how Grimcat's theme goes. I guess more ambient music tends to stick out to me, like Tharbad Night. It's been my favorite since before the game came out.

Arioch was cool. I liked his personality and his solo boss fight was actually the only real challenge I experienced playing the game.

I think what made Trails FC's party work so well was that your companions come and go as the game progresses, which makes their developing friendship with you feel more natural and earned. Imagine if after you solved the orphanage fire mystery in the first game Khloe stayed with your party and followed you around for the rest of the game. It would probably feel a little unnatural.

[Reitschuster]

Arioch was a complete scumbag that deserved to put down like the rabid dog he was instead of being seen off like he's some sort of romanticized noble-hearted antihero, he was just a repulsive sack of s hi t.

It's really not surprising that people that complain that Calvard is soo corrupt and has unsympathetic characters end up liking the most contemptible people that exist in the game, and for their personality no less.

[Book]

Originally posted by Reitschuster:

Arioch was a complete scumbag that deserved to put down like the rabid dog he was instead of being seen off like he's some sort of romanticized noble-hearted antihero, he was just a repulsive sack of s hi t.

It's really not surprising that people that complain that Calvard is soo corrupt and has unsympathetic characters end up liking the most contemptible people that exist in the game, and for their personality no less.

How was Arioch the most contemptible member of Almata? At least he has the excuse of being possessed by his weapon and armor, the other members, not counting Olympia, are a lot less sympathetic.

[rachaellikesblue]

Originally posted by Bookworm:

Arioch was cool. I liked his personality and his solo boss fight was actually the only real challenge I experienced playing the game.

I think what made Trails FC's party work so well was that your companions come and go as the game progresses, which makes their developing friendship with you feel more natural and earned. Imagine if after you solved the orphanage fire mystery in the first game Khloe stayed with your party and followed you around for the rest of the game. It would probably feel a little unnatural.

Hmm. I guess I see what you're getting at. Although, in the end, I prefer characters to stay with you. I guess I'm just more familiar with that format. Pokemon, Suikoden, Valkyrie Profile...all my favorite games have you recruit characters (or catch them, in the case of Pokemon), and most of them stick with you for the remainder of the game. At the same time, a big deal isn't made of them being "friends" with you. The exception is Pokemon, but even that happens over time, accelerated by certain actions and items. In Suikoden, characters join you to aid in whatever cause you've dedicated yourself to (some of them are friends, but most are acquaintances or strangers), and in Valkyrie Profile, they're subordinates, not friends.

So would I be correct in saying that for you, less is more--rather than emphasizing how these new allies are "BFFs" or whatever, the bond would be proven through actions and a gradually increasing closeness?

[Book]

Originally posted by rachaellikesblue:

Originally posted by Bookworm:

Arioch was cool. I liked his personality and his solo boss fight was actually the only real challenge I experienced playing the game.

I think what made Trails FC's party work so well was that your companions come and go as the game progresses, which makes their developing friendship with you feel more natural and earned. Imagine if after you solved the orphanage fire mystery in the first game Khloe stayed with your party and followed you around for the rest of the game. It would probably feel a little unnatural.

Hmm. I guess I see what you're getting at. Although, in the end, I prefer characters to stay with you. I guess I'm just more familiar with that format. Pokemon, Suikoden, Valkyrie Profile...all my favorite games have you recruit characters (or catch them, in the case of Pokemon), and most of them stick with you for the remainder of the game. At the same time, a big deal isn't made of them being "friends" with you. The exception is Pokemon, but even that happens over time, accelerated by certain actions and items. In Suikoden, characters join you to aid in whatever cause you've dedicated yourself to (some of them are friends, but most are acquaintances or strangers), and in Valkyrie Profile, they're subordinates, not friends.

So would I be correct in saying that for you, less is more--rather than emphasizing how these new allies are "BFFs" or whatever, the bond would be proven through actions and a gradually increasing closeness?

I suppose what I liked so much about Trails was how each character had their own agenda that was independent of yours. Oliver was a foreign spy, Khloe was secretly a princess, and Agate, Schera, Tita, and Zin all come and go as they please. Even Joshua leaves the party at the end of the game. It makes them feel like real people instead of mindless robots or worker bees.

[rachaellikesblue]

Originally posted by Bookworm:

I suppose what I liked so much about Trails was how each character had their own agenda that was independent of yours. Oliver was a foreign spy, Khloe was secretly a princess, and Agate, Schera, Tita, and Zin all come and go as they please. Even Joshua leaves the party at the end of the game. It makes them feel like real people instead of mindless robots or worker bees.

Ah, okay, that makes sense! Thank you for explaining your thought process to me!

(You don't have to reply. I have a compulsion where I have to reply to anyone who quotes me, even if they just say "You're welcome" or something.)

[Allfather]

I'm currently at the begining of final chapter and I just want to finish it as quickly as possible. First time having this feeling for trails game :(
I really don't like anything about this game except Aaron and Judith. Van was cool at the beginning, but as the story goes further he became another cliche protagonist with some sort of mysterious superpower.
And oh my god, the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in chapter 5 was insane, you once again lose every fight despite the thing you won them gameplay-wise. Wait, in your party you have Grendel, Rixia, battle maid robot, taito master and catgirl who is supposed to be on par with Rixia? Nah, opponents are using only 1% of their power and just let you take theirs keys for some 12yo writing style reason. And apparently this kind of setup can't outbest some literally-who jaeger in combat that was never mentioned in previous games, haha... - I'm sick of this ♥♥♥♥. I wanna actually win in fights like you do in, for example, tales of arise or ff16 or smt 5, etc. And in first chapters game allows you to do so, but later it's this mess again.