Gender Pronouns - mistranslation

[Greendetective]

In the game Van's english text says, "What's your pronouns?" but that saying is entirely western based. Not only that, but it makes the whole scene not make much sense because of everyone's reaction. In other languages it is impossible to have all these gender neutral words so their not that popular. This makes it glaringly obvious that the translators shoehorned this into the game which lowers the quality of the game. A lot of the western audience don't want disingenuous messages in their game but prefer well written messages from the author's original intent. The use of gender pronouns should only be used when the context calls for it. In this case Van who isn't the most soft man wouldn't just suddenly ask for pronouns when he didn't ask anyone else in the game's pronouns earlier. Asking for pronouns only works well electronically too. It's not a statement someone would say out in the open or should say out in the open. Because 1. your letting the person know that you see through their gender act/or saying their the wrong gender and 2. Your forcing them to make a decision. Most gender pronouns are given by the person wanting to be a different gender or in a group introduction. Unless your telling me Van is a discord mod and accidentally said computer talk irl.

[thateclipse]

One day, I hope to see something new and interesting about the story. Not a rehash of a topic that's literally on the front page.

[Reitschuster]

Someone like Van would never in his life think about pronouns even if the hottest left wing girl told him to be mindful of it because he’s just a simple fixer

[Noir]

Originally posted by Greendetective:

In the game Van's english text says, "What's your pronouns?"

No, he doesn't. If you want to quote someone, quote them correctly.

[Azurain]

Firsts of all, how is asking for pronouns and the answer that comes with it "gender neutral" words that don't exist in other languages?
Second, in JP he asks if he should use -chan or -kun for the character in question. the only point you could make here is that asking for pronouns adds a layer to the question that isn't exactly present in the JP script but I also don't know how Japan handles those questions currently.
And how is asking an androngynous looking person who you just met for the first time what their pronouns are not an "in context" situation?
Van also doesn't ask anyone else in the game their pronouns because no other new character that he meets makes him doubt what to call them. No idea why you think you should be asking absolutely everyone and their mother what their pronouns are.

And the last few sentences after that are just complete nonsense.

[Toddness]

Originally posted by Diabolical Taco:

Originally posted by Toddness:

The feeling is two ways, you've been raging on every topic for over a week now from people who dare call out a clear ideology that's being put into the game that wasn't in the original translation and it's obvious you do not have an open mind at all and only want everyone to agree with you. IE calling everyone who questions the line in the game is not a bigot, but you are so insulated in your own political narratives that you cast out everyone who even brings up a topic that goes against what you think.

Perhaps Suicide Squad's new DLC character is more to your liking. Because guess what, most people can't stand people like you who goes off and calls everyone who doesn't match up to 100% your own ideology some sort of -ist or -phobe or bigot like you have been doing here for at least a week now.

Calling out someone for not being open-minded while your entire argument is based on not being open-minded is next level. Equating Suicide Squad DEI with the pronoun discussion in Daybreak takes a serious leap in intolerance. For starters, the pronoun scene in question is played as a joke, lasts about 20 seconds in a 120 hour game, and doesn't register on my woke-radar. And I'm a guy who would absolutely tell others not to bother with Spiderman 2, Suicide Squad, Concord, etc.. It's not that deep.

It's easy, it's cause it's a bad localization from any point of view considering the original text and the way Van is. Van is not someone who would ask "What are your pronouns"? That is a question that did not exist 5-10 years ago and is something that you would probably hear from some Silicon Valley HR head giving orientation to new recruits. Van is someone who is a mercenary/fixer/handyman who is somewhat of a jerk. He would straight up ask "Are you are boy or girl?" or even "Do you go by "him or "her". In terms of -kun or -chan. Given that -kun or -chan affixes don't have a straight up English 1 to 1 translation, it may make it a bit tough, but it is known in Japan in terms of children, usually girls are referred to as -chan while boys are -kun, therefore the question of gender is valid in the localization and the alternatives I suggested are much more appropriate instead of some question like "What are your pronouns?"

You see that point of view is the open mindedness, the guy you're defending just straight out called the OP a bigot without any forethought. That is the difference.

[Ogami]

bla bla how can you call people bigot bla bla

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Tamburlaine]

Originally posted by Toddness:

Originally posted by Diabolical Taco:

Calling out someone for not being open-minded while your entire argument is based on not being open-minded is next level. Equating Suicide Squad DEI with the pronoun discussion in Daybreak takes a serious leap in intolerance. For starters, the pronoun scene in question is played as a joke, lasts about 20 seconds in a 120 hour game, and doesn't register on my woke-radar. And I'm a guy who would absolutely tell others not to bother with Spiderman 2, Suicide Squad, Concord, etc.. It's not that deep.

It's easy, it's cause it's a bad localization from any point of view considering the original text and the way Van is. Van is not someone who would ask "What are your pronouns"? That is a question that did not exist 5-10 years ago and is something that you would probably hear from some Silicon Valley HR head giving orientation to new recruits. Van is someone who is a mercenary/fixer/handyman who is somewhat of a jerk. He would straight up ask "Are you are boy or girl?" or even "Do you go by "him or "her". In terms of -kun or -chan. Given that -kun or -chan affixes don't have a straight up English 1 to 1 translation, it may make it a bit tough, but it is known in Japan in terms of children, usually girls are referred to as -chan while boys are -kun, therefore the question of gender is valid in the localization and the alternatives I suggested are much more appropriate instead of some question like "What are your pronouns?"

You see that point of view is the open mindedness, the guy you're defending just straight out called the OP a bigot without any forethought. That is the difference.

It's not bad from "any point of view". I don't mind it and think the localization here is fine. "Are you boy or girl" wouldn't work because Van asked about honorifics so it's too direct, and "Do you go by 'him' or 'her'" is the same thing because those are pronouns (I think I wouldn't mind this either), except nobody says it that way because the accepted way to ask is "What are your pronouns". Just because you never use that phrase doesn't change that it's commonly accepted in modern English (I heard it twice at a party last week). There is nuance lost, because English doesn't have honorifics and the fact that if Quatre were the same age as Van or older, Van would use -san instead of -kun or -chan and not have a problem. Also, I don't buy the whole "the way Van is" thing, we all know he's a huge softie even if he tries to hide it, and the original line is him being sensitive anyway by asking indirectly (he could have asked if Quatre was a boy or girl, but instead asked about honorifics).

[Greendetective]

A lot of people with assumptions, I'm just stating that it's a bad translation in hopes that they might be aware and fix it. Asking someone if their a boy and girl doesn't translate to "I think your trying to be a different gender than whatever gender you are so can you please help me determine what gender you want to be." You don't see people asking for pronouns in day to day work unless it's a introduction in a group meeting or it's electronic. It's just a weird statement that doesn't make much sense in the game.

[Diabolical Taco]

Originally posted by Greendetective:

A lot of people with assumptions, I'm just stating that it's a bad translation in hopes that they might be aware and fix it. Asking someone if their a boy and girl doesn't translate to "I think your trying to be a different gender than whatever gender you are so can you please help me determine what gender you want to be." You don't see people asking for pronouns in day to day work unless it's a introduction in a group meeting or it's electronic. It's just a weird statement that doesn't make much sense in the game.

And if you actually did your homework, you'd know this topic has been discussed to death in other threads. At this point, this looks like attention seeking behavior. Adios.

[Gustavo]

Pronouns is like a internet thing, So I don't like it.
Boy or Girl or He or She is better.
Its nothing like "I hate LGBT people", nothing like that, its a JRPG, I think JRPG players doesnt have anything against LGBT people.
But pronouns is like internet slang.
I gonna take a exampple: Imagine if Cloud (just a example) or Estelle asked if a character is a Sigma Male. I think this is the level. Pronouns is a internet thing. In real life of course I respect people, I call them for whatever they want, I have gay friends, I have trans friends, I call them by the pronoum they like, but I dont think PRONOUNS should be in a game. This don't made me a "biggot" or something.

[thateclipse]

Originally posted by Gustavo:

Pronouns is like a internet thing, So I don't like it.
Boy or Girl or He or She is better.
Its nothing like "I hate LGBT people", nothing like that, its a JRPG, I think JRPG players doesnt have anything against LGBT people.
But pronouns is like internet slang.
I gonna take a exampple: Imagine if Cloud (just a example) or Estelle asked if a character is a Sigma Male. I think this is the level. Pronouns is a internet thing. In real life of course I respect people, I call them for whatever they want, I have gay friends, I have trans friends, I call them by the pronoum they like, but I dont think PRONOUNS should be in a game. This don't made me a "biggot" or something.

It does make you seem uninformed about those around you. I try to talk to as many people as possible, and the pronoun thing is big with some of them. It costs me nothing to call them what they want and it makes them feel comfortable around me, so what's the problem?

[Diabolical Taco]

Originally posted by Gustavo:

Pronouns is like a internet thing, So I don't like it.
Boy or Girl or He or She is better.
Its nothing like "I hate LGBT people", nothing like that, its a JRPG, I think JRPG players doesnt have anything against LGBT people.
But pronouns is like internet slang.
I gonna take a exampple: Imagine if Cloud (just a example) or Estelle asked if a character is a Sigma Male. I think this is the level. Pronouns is a internet thing. In real life of course I respect people, I call them for whatever they want, I have gay friends, I have trans friends, I call them by the pronoum they like, but I dont think PRONOUNS should be in a game. This don't made me a "biggot" or something.

You know how you keep saying you have no issue with these ppl? In my experience, the more you qualify your stance, the more you're the exact opposite. Also, as someone with an advanced degree in English, the very notion of pronouns as slang made me giggle a bit.

[carl]

shame on translators for bastardizing this game with pronouns and LGBTQ+ political stuff

[ojvdh]

Originally posted by carl:

shame on translators for bastardizing this game with pronouns and LGBTQ+ political stuff

Except for the part where they didn't at all!

[thateclipse]

Originally posted by carl:

shame on translators for bastardizing this game with pronouns and LGBTQ+ political stuff

It's not like Falcom has made it a secret about how they feel about those issues.