Sonic Adventure™ 2

Sonic Adventure™ 2

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Shadow the Hedgehog Fanbase in Sonic Adventure 2
In Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow the Hedgehog was intended to be a single time Character & he was supposed to die at the end of Sonic Adventure 2. And that's it. So how come the Project Shadow Fanbase wanted him back so badly?
Last edited by VolnuttHeroP64; Jun 26, 2014 @ 1:05pm
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Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
taxicabmessiah Jun 26, 2014 @ 1:08pm 
Because he was very popular. This happens a lot in TV shows. A new character appears and will be killed off after a few episodes. But the fans love that character so he/she ends up staying on the show.
Last edited by taxicabmessiah; Jun 26, 2014 @ 1:09pm
VolnuttHeroP64 Jun 26, 2014 @ 1:12pm 
He DID Return in Sonic Heroes & onward.
taxicabmessiah Jun 26, 2014 @ 1:17pm 
Originally posted by Knb786 Super Megaforce:
He DID Return in Sonic Heroes & onward.
Exactly. Because of his popularity. I guarantee you that they wouldn't have brought him back if people didn't like him.
funewchie Jun 26, 2014 @ 1:56pm 
Everyone felt sorry for Shadow, because of his tragic past. He was the sympathetic villain, who then became the tragic anti-hero.

Bearing in mind, this was before the darker and edgier Sonic games that would later follow, that were hated.
VolnuttHeroP64 Jun 26, 2014 @ 1:57pm 
Originally posted by funewchie:
Everyone felt sorry for Shadow, because of his tragic past. He was the sympathetic villain, who then became the tragic anti-hero.

Bearing in mind, this was before the darker and edgier Sonic games that would later follow, that were hated.

After Sonic Hereos until Sonic Colors and Onward.
funewchie Jun 26, 2014 @ 2:39pm 
Originally posted by Knb786 Super Megaforce:
After Sonic Hereos until Sonic Colors and Onward.

Yeah, exactly. Now that I think of it, that was about the time they started really using Shadow. And then around Sonic Unleashed, they greatly reduced his screentime to almost nil. A connection?

And personally, I don't count Sonic Unleashed as a dark Sonic game. It had quite a bit of humor, and didn't take itself so seriously.
Last edited by funewchie; Jun 26, 2014 @ 2:40pm
taxicabmessiah Jun 26, 2014 @ 5:35pm 
He has like one line in Generations.
VolnuttHeroP64 Jun 26, 2014 @ 5:48pm 
Originally posted by Venom:
He has like one line in Generations.
That would be the Chaos Emerald Boss Fight.
taxicabmessiah Jun 26, 2014 @ 6:34pm 
He acually says stuff in that? The only thing I remember him saying is "You've got this, Sonic!" right before the final boss.
Maru Jun 26, 2014 @ 9:34pm 
Not really sure why...
ChronicTheHemphog Jun 28, 2014 @ 1:21am 
Originally posted by funewchie:
Everyone felt sorry for Shadow, because of his tragic past. He was the sympathetic villain, who then became the tragic anti-hero.

This is EXACTLY why I think he should have STAYED dead. Shadow being (poorly) written back into the series, through a trail of convoluted afterthoughts, was a serious disappointment to me personally. Having Shadow return only served to completely undermine his sacrifice, and the weight and meaning of Sonic Adventure 2's ending. His return just proves that Sega clearly stopped concerning themselves with cohesive stories and meaningful character development, after they stopped needing Sonic games to prop up their console division.

I'm sure that a huge reason behind SA2's grim themes of loss and finality were meant to closely parallel the team's feelings and knowledge that the Dreamcast would soon be discontinued, and would mark the end of Sega as they knew it. Even one of the trailers for Sonic Adventure 2 featured an announcer literally saying "Farewell, Sonic.. Forever." They knew the true spirit of Sonic would die with their console division, and they wanted him to go out with a memorable BANG. I think SA2 accomplished that goal beautifully (especially considering the ending credits cinematic, where Eggman had practically made peace with Sonic and friends), and I don't expect a game as meaningful to the franchise to ever be released again.

Sega going third-party effectively killed the franchise, thematically and poetically. I won't sit here and say I didn't enjoy Sonic Colors or Generations, there have still been some objectively good games to come out since, but none have ever taken themselves nearly as seriously as Sonic Adventure 2 did, and that's a quality that I deeply mourn the loss of.

The Sonic franchise of today is nothing more than a cartoon caricature of it's former self.
VolnuttHeroP64 Jun 28, 2014 @ 4:42am 
Originally posted by ChronicSonic:
Originally posted by funewchie:
Everyone felt sorry for Shadow, because of his tragic past. He was the sympathetic villain, who then became the tragic anti-hero.

This is EXACTLY why I think he should have STAYED dead. Shadow being (poorly) written back into the series, through a trail of convoluted afterthoughts, was a serious disappointment to me personally. Having Shadow return only served to completely undermine his sacrifice, and the weight and meaning of Sonic Adventure 2's ending. His return just proves that Sega clearly stopped concerning themselves with cohesive stories and meaningful character development, after they stopped needing Sonic games to prop up their console division.

I'm sure that a huge reason behind SA2's grim themes of loss and finality were meant to closely parallel the team's feelings and knowledge that the Dreamcast would soon be discontinued, and would mark the end of Sega as they knew it. Even one of the trailers for Sonic Adventure 2 featured an announcer literally saying "Farewell, Sonic.. Forever." They knew the true spirit of Sonic would die with their console division, and they wanted him to go out with a memorable BANG. I think SA2 accomplished that goal beautifully (especially considering the ending credits cinematic, where Eggman had practically made peace with Sonic and friends), and I don't expect a game as meaningful to the franchise to ever be released again.

Sega going third-party effectively killed the franchise, thematically and poetically. I won't sit here and say I didn't enjoy Sonic Colors or Generations, there have still been some objectively good games to come out since, but none have ever taken themselves nearly as seriously as Sonic Adventure 2 did, and that's a quality that I deeply mourn the loss of.

The Sonic franchise of today is nothing more than a cartoon caricature of it's former self.

Sonic Colors & Generations were pretty good to me.
taxicabmessiah Jun 28, 2014 @ 4:47am 
Originally posted by Knb786 Super Megaforce:
Sonic Colors & Generations were pretty good to me.
In terms of gameplay, yes. ChronicSonic made a good point. I too have never taken a Sonic game seriously since Adventure 2. I can enjoy the gameplay but I never bother with the story anymore.
ChronicTheHemphog Jun 28, 2014 @ 6:06am 
Originally posted by Venom:
Originally posted by Knb786 Super Megaforce:
Sonic Colors & Generations were pretty good to me.
In terms of gameplay, yes. ChronicSonic made a good point. I too have never taken a Sonic game seriously since Adventure 2. I can enjoy the gameplay but I never bother with the story anymore.

Exactly, Knb, that's what I was saying when I mentioned those two. I liked Colors pretty well, and *thoroughly* enjoyed Generations, but purely from a gameplay standpoint. Honestly, those two are the only console games that have come out since SA2 that stood out to me as not feeling like a chore to play through, which is why they got a mention.

I mean, I realized Generations really wouldn't have a real "story" holding it together, I think we all did; that game didn't need to have anything more than a set of convenient excuses to make Sega's love-letter a reality. The premise itself made any kind of logic unneccessary, it was just FUN. And in that case, that was enough.

But seeing Eggman in his current state, reduced to a bumbling fool of a villain with two idiotic cartoon robot sidekicks... There's no part of me that can possibly take him seriously. He no longer has a sinister air about him, he's just not intimidating at all. It doesn't seem to be Sega's goal anymore. Maybe I'm too old (23) for the demographic that they are currently aiming for, but that's exactly my problem. Adventure 2 was all-inclusive and timeless, it could be appreciated by all ages, adults definitely included! (In fact, I think I appreciated that game's story even more AFTER I grew up.) It tackled themes much greater than "gotta run fast and stop that stereotypical big-robot-builder". Playing Colors's storyline just made me feel... kind of dejected. As if Sega legitimately didn't care about my demographic anymore. Sonic is still the carefree guy we always loved, but he no longer seems to be put in situations that actually warrant situational seriousness, or showing other emotions besides "cocky".

But holy cow, this topic about Shadow really spiraled off into my own over-arching problems with the franchise, but I think his non-death marked an important starting point to a series of disappointments that I can't help but rant about sometimes... Having just played through SA2 really refreshed those sentiments again for me, I guess.
funewchie Jun 28, 2014 @ 8:38am 
Originally posted by ChronicSonic:
Having Shadow return only served to completely undermine his sacrifice, and the weight and meaning of Sonic Adventure 2's ending. His return just proves that Sega clearly stopped concerning themselves with cohesive stories and meaningful character development, after they stopped needing Sonic games to prop up their console division.

The Sonic franchise of today is nothing more than a cartoon caricature of it's former self.

It's funny. Back in 2001 or so, Sega had to put up with thousands of angry fans that called Sega a bunch of idiots and terrible scripwriters, because they killed off Shadow in SA2.

So, deciding to be nice, and to make a gesture of goodwill to the fans, Sega revives Shadow, and now they have to listen to people call them uncaring fools and apathetic scriptwriters?
Wow...

Since when has Sonic ever NOT been a cartoon caricature? To be honest, he's always been meant to be light-hearted, and to not take himself too seriously. After all, if you want Frank Miller's Sin City, by all means, go ahead and enjoy that.

I think Sega even realized it eventually, and started moving Sonic back to his light-hearted roots. Which is why you get more laughs, more snarking (he is "the hedgehog with an attitude", after all), and more... adventure.
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Date Posted: Jun 26, 2014 @ 1:04pm
Posts: 25