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It's only during Sonic unleashed they actually got some new talent in to create a graphics engine, control scheme and level design that actually compliments running fast and free in 3D. Something that was basically perfected in Sonic Generations.
If it's one thing that's clear to me, it's that we just want to play as sonic, or at least characters with very similar control schemes. I had no problem playing as tails and knuckles in the original 2D games, and I had no problem playing Blaze in sonic rush. But I do have a problem playing find-the-emerald-fragment with knuckles or walking around in a stompy and cumbersome robot as tails.
The Boost style of gameplay is fun as well. However, I think that it relies too much on making the players react quickly to obstacles and other things that briefly appear on the screen. Also, I don't really like how it always switches between the 2D and 3D camera perspectives. You can see less in front of Sonic with the 2D camera perspective. Also, the boost marginalizes some of Sonic's other abilities like the Spin Dash. You could hold down the boost button for most of the levels and many enemies in those games are pushovers partially because of it.
Sonic games weren't solely about running fast. Many of the Sega Genesis games had momentum-based gameplay. Most of the Adventure-style games still retained some of the momentum-based aspects of the Genesis games and the time bonus wasn't always the main determiner of your ranking in stages.
This is pretty much why Lost World is my favorite 3D Sonic. I got Sonic Generations when it came out and played the hell out of it. I love the graphics, I love the speed, I *mostly* love the level design, or at least the philosophy behind the design.
I was hitting a skill wall on Lost World's levels while trying to climb the leaderboards and decided to go back to Generations for awhile, just for a change. Holy carp is that game fast! I can't believe I used to be good at playing it. It's exhilerating to watch, but you barely feel in control of Sonic as he blasts from one jump to the next. Naturally you have to know every inch of the level to go fast, but you're frquently making jumps without really being sure you'll land where you want. (Maybe that's what His World was talking about when it said "In his world every step meets the risk", heh)
This confuses me too. Sega was on the right track with Sonic and Shadow's levels, although they needed a *lot* of polish to be truly fun. But do people actually enjoy spending half an hour searching for emerald shards in Meteor Herd or slowly plodding around in mech suits? If you do, that's fine. But that isn't what Sonic is to *me*.
Sega has said that there are now 3 generations of Sonic fans: the Genesis-era fans, the Dreamcast/Gamecube-era fans, and the new Lost World/Boom fans.
Each are used to a different way of enjoying Sonic.
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As for the Adventure games' other characters: I enjoyed them, especially when I viewed them simply as taking a break from Sonic/Shadow.
After scrambling to try and A-rank Sonic/Shadow's stages, and handling all that high-speed and the reflexes required for them...it's nice to be able to take a break, step back, and just do some treasure hunting, or target practice.
(I just wish Tails/Eggman's stages were more forgiving of mistakes. Do they really need to have so many instant-death traps? And if they do, do they really need to reset the score to 0 each time you die?)
Or sometimes I just take a nice break with the Chao Garden.
Once I'm done with any of the above, then I can go right back to blasting through stages with Sonic/Shadow.
Taking it slower for awhile makes sense.
Sonic games are typically pretty unforgiving of mistakes. I don't like the instant death traps with Tails and Eggman either, but once you play the levels a few times you can see them coming. What I *really* don't like is the bugs in their movement, like how when you graze a wall while hovering you instantly plummet downwards.
I'm not against different styles of gameplay in Sonic games, they just need to be more polished. But 3D Sonic games almost always have that problem, lol.
Sometimes, it's hard to explain physics to a computer. And it ends up wondering "Well, the object has collided with this wall. Where should the kinetic energy go? It has to go somewhere.", and in SA2 it apparently just figures that it should go downward.
This kinda of reminds me of a glitch in Sonic 06. At one point, an LP'er tried to do a Homing Attack to cross a lava flow, and got hit by a bullet, which made Sonic drop into the lava instantly.
(It turns out this was due to the game mistakenly reading the bullet as solid ground. When Sonic touches ground, he automatically uncurls. So the game thinks Sonic is now on solid ground and uncurls him (which disables Homing Attack until you jump again).
But, after a split second, the game realizes it's error, and correctly reads Sonic as being in mid-air, and so gravity kicks in.
But because Sonic had uncurled, he can't use Homing Attack until he jumps. And because Sonic is in mid-air, he cannot jump.
Final result? The bullet makes Sonic instantly drop like a stone into the lava below, and die.)
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It's tricky to render Sonic's levels in 3D. Part of the reason is because Sonic goes so fast, that computers have a hard time keeping up with him (bearing in mind, 3D gaming requires the computer to perform countless math calculations to judge what happens in-game).
Another reason Sonic's 3D platforming is tricky is because it's hard to gauge depth on a 2D TV screen.
I've told some fans before, that that's one reason the 2D/3D transitions introduced in Sonic Unleashed are a handy way of doing things.
The game uses 3D for the high-speed, action-y areas of a level.
But then it switches to 2D when it's time for some complex platforming.
With this method, you can have your gameplay both ways.
When it's time to blast through a stage, you've got the 3D sections.
But then for the tricky platforming, you do it in 2D (which removes the need to guage depth. Now you only have 2 dimensions to worry about)
Totally right about about the 2d-3d transitions. I really like that about the post-06 Sonics.
1. Classic Sonic - Typical 2D Sonic game with minimum story, and multible playable characters, kinda like in Advance series
2. Modern Sonic - 3D Sonic game with darker and deeper story, each character haves his/her own story campaign, no ,,Final/True" ending which means you won't be forced to play as someone you don't like, and of course, replace some voice actors
Here's what i had in mind:
Sonic - Gameplay like in Generations or Unleashed
Tails - I don't know..... puzzle levels?
Knuckles - Finding emerald pieces and beating up enemies
Shadow - You will all hate me for saying this...... DMC/MGR style of gameplay but much faster so it could fit his speed. Give him new power called, i don't know.... ,,Chaos Blade"?
Rouge - Stealth + Combat gameplay. Kinda like Batman Arkham series
Omega - 3rd person shooter. Hey, Adventure 1 couldn't pull it off that well because of limitations.
As for voice actors:
Sonic - Johnny Yong Bosh (voice actor of Ichigo, Nero)
Shadow - Crispin Freeman (voice actor of Alucard)
I went too far, i apologize.......
The problem is, they've tried making just 2D Sonic games (such as Sonic 4), and look at the reception they got for it.
People cursed Sega for "ruining Sonic forever by making a sidescroller". (Never mind that that's where he got his start at)
To be honest, Sonic is simply not meant to have a dark story, no more than Mario is. Sega tried making Sonic dark and edgy, and it nearly killed the franchise.
With Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06, they got the story dark, and the sales were bad.
But then with Unleashed, they tried a lighter story and it sold much better. So they tried an even lighter story for Colors, and it sold even better than Unleashed.
With those figures, is it any surprise that Sega would believe "lighter story = better sales"?
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The gameplay ideas are nice, although truthfully they are already used in the Adventure games for the most part.
But Shadow as a DMC clone would not go over well. You'd have Shadow purists saying that Sega tainted him with "lousy Capcom garbage", and you'd have DMC fans saying that Shadow is "just a cheap, uninspired rip off of Dante".
So Sega would lose no matter what.
(Besides, Sonic Paradox Team already joked that Shadow the Hedgehog (game) was just a rip off of a DMC game)
With Rouge, that kind of gameplay would eat up a lot of disc space, and add massive development time. Which Sega really can't afford.
Now maybe if it was spin-off for Rouge, then sure, it could be done. But honestly, Rouge just isn't popular enough to warrant a spinoff (Shadow was barely popular enough, and his spinoff was generally viewed as a failure)
With Omega, it's worth remembering that Gamma's gameplay was more of an experiment.
At that time, a popular request was for a Sonic game to have guns (believe it or not). Sega was not about to have Sonic using guns, so they came up with Gamma.
Being a villain's former minion, he could be considered "evil" enough to use guns.
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As for the voice actors, I hate to say it: but those guys you've named cost a fortune
to hire.
Plus, they won't be as familiar with the character.
As an actor plays a character, they start improving.
(Such as Cindy Robinson as Amy Rose. She had Amy sounding like Minnie Mouse at first. But now, she's improved on Amy's voice enough that Amy has really become her own character (When was the last time you heard Minnie Mouse angrily scream "I'm a woman! I'm refined and elegant like a delicate flower, you jerk!" and generally act all bossy?)
If they changed the cast now, we'd be right back to square one.
(And at this point, Mike Pollock has done Eggman for so many years, and has done such a good job, that people admit they can't picture anyone else doing it now)
Well, problem with Sonic 4 is that Sonic felt way too heavy. That's totally because of the graphics style. They should just stick with sprites like Advance series (you know how good Freedom Planet was).
My gameplay suggestions..... eh, i tried
As for darker stories, dark doesn't mean it should have swearing, constant explosions and gunfire, but more like Unleashed. Still cartoony, but it takes itself seriously. Hell, SA2 is very dark when you think about it, but it still worked.
And voice actors...... I just don't see Kirk Thornton improving at all. Like, he really tried in Sonic Boom Episode 52 but he still sounds like an a*shole to me. I said i'd choose Crispin Freeman because he haves deep and powerful voice, which fits Shadow perfectly imo. (listen here for yourself. There are 3 versions in this video ). He would sound like an adult man (or hedgehog in this case), and not like an old man trying to act like a teenage bully.
I was actually thinking about this, but more in the style of Batman Arkham/Shadow of Mordor. You can get going pretty fast if you time your attacks correctly, and being a Sonic game an element of speed should be present.
I know you said that in the Rouge section, but, just speaking for myself, I don't think the slower pace of stealth would fit too well in a Sonic game. Then again there was that spotlight owl in Lost World, where if you went fast enough you didn't actually have to hide... There might be something to that.
I feel this way too. Sega has a lot of creativity and a great sense of style, as seen in games like Jet Set Radio. It never made much sense to me why they felt Sonic was the right series in which to try that approach.
I like Adventure 2's story, actually. Eggman had a plan that could've actually worked. Maria's death and Gerald's madness are somewhat compelling. None of the heroes are interesting, which is a downside, especially as it's ostensibly a game about Sonic the Hedgehog. I can see their thinking with Shadow the Hedghog (the game) following that, although Sonic Heroes is kind of a weird interlude between the two.
Personally I don't really see why they have to have a "story" as such at all. As you pointed out, Mario doesn't really need it (and for better or worse, they probably won't try again after Sunshine's mixed reception). But it's Sega's franchise, and in the end all they're after is selling games, so they'll make what sells. Hey, I can just skip the cutscenes if I don't like them.
Ever read the Sonic comics? You don't have to read the article itself, but scroll down to some of the scans of his comics: http://kotaku.com/a-look-inside-the-soul-of-sonic-the-hedgehog-1615891789 . You can definitely do dark in the Sonic universe without compromising his character, and after reading those breif snippets and being genuinely intrigued by them, I would love to see a game set in the comic's world.
I know I contradicted myself a lot, but I'm conflicted on Sonic and story. I don't think I've ever seen it done in the games in a way I'd personally like to see, but I'd be willing to open my heart to it if they made it compelling enough.