22.5k Bait And The Consequences Of Using It All

[Just Some Random Kid]

Context for this project. If you want to get to what the results were just skip this section.

I recently found out about a method of acquiring large amounts of bait in a small time frame. I already knew about how good fishing was and had done it a few times with the scrap>bones>Bait method. However my partner recently came across a new method which I will detail below. Needless to say I acquired around 30k bait worth of materials in like 30ish minutes. Crafting 22.5k worth of it with the materials I had on hand and I decided since there isn't much info about this kind of stuff I would compile it myself doing this is one sitting (which I would highly recommend against). Then I decided for the hell of it I'd also post it here for those who might also be curious about what you can expect from doing mass amounts of fishing. Thank you for coming to my TED talk now onto the details.

The method in question for acquiring the bait. First you need a hammer and a compost bin. That is it. Go to a tile on the world map (preferably the tree tiles that have an abundance of blue flowers) and collect flowers. Do this for about 5-10 minutes. Take the flowers you get and hammer them turning them into leaves. Because flowers are a food item the leaf material is raw food, some of you might see where this is going. Take those leaves and collect enough sticks to turn the leaves into makeshift arrows. The material for the arrows are now also raw food. Put those arrows into a compost bin and let them become fertilizer. Take the fertilizer and hammer it, turning the fertilizer into corpses. Turn the corpses into bait and boom you now have 10k bait and you can fish for as long as you want.

Before I move on an interesting bit about this is that the corpse material is soil so they don't rot. Meaning that this is a relatively good way to stockpile corpses for whenever you want to max out your worshiping tier for a god.

Now onto some of the basic statistics.

This entire process took roughly 25-30 hours to complete. 20-25 of it being just the fishing with another 2 hours on top for the sawmilling of the fish themselves. Now I wasn't doing it super active so you could probably do this whole thing in 20 hours maybe even less if you were hyper active about it and having more stamina then I (I had 98 a day as it was the limit that my bed could do when I slept)

Actual stats on items/xp now.

My levels changed as followed

Fishing Potential 100 went from base 61>137.39 Over doubling the stat. With my bonuses It went from 97>173.39

Carpentry Potential 100 (from sawmilling the first) went from 25.15>47.53 almost doubling it.

Appraising Potential 100 went from (roughly) 28>33.99

Literacy Potential 100 gained around 20 levels from low 20s to 43.77. I forgot to track it before starting the project because I forgot about how many books you can get from fishing.

Other miscellaneous amounts of xp in skills like strength and weightlifting that were minimal but did happen. That's about it for notable amounts of XP gains.

Miscellaneous but valuable items gained.

543 Small Medals (The reason I did this in the first place)
160ish Platinum Coins (forgot to get the exact number I had before doing this so this is a low estimate)
426 Voynich Manuscripts
27 Revelations Of Glaaki
91 Ponape Scriptures
7 G'Harne Fragments
164 Dhol Chants

1 Statue Of Luck
1 Statue Of Machine
1 Statue Of Healing
1 Statue Of Harvest
2 Statue's Of Wind
2 Statue's Of Element

Now onto the fish. Before that though the reason why there are multiple Basses and Tuna is just because there are two separate types that don't stack with the same name (at least when rotted).

478 Moonfish
936 Sunfish
83 Sharks
204 Ancient Fish
974 Deep Sea Fish
91 Coelacanth
35 Whales
921 Sand Borers
458 Salmon
493 Sea Breams
1403 Sardines
1059 Flatfish
179 Blowfish
484 Tuna
1067 Bonitos
366 Turtles
211 Red Breams
1164 Makerals
1093 Basses
1125 Stripped Jacks
1371 Sweetfish
722 Arowanas
450 Tuna
1218 Scads
1293 Tilefish
300 Sea Urchins
1547 Basses
1525 Muddlers
1539 Gobies
752 Eels
323 Goldfish
1751 Tadpoles
1553 Bitterlings

Now lastly before I get onto how much this made in orens I have some thoughts/notes.

This entire thing took almost an entire in-game year to do. Spanning from 3/8 all the way to 2/18. I would never recommend doing this much fishing in one go ever. It took me about 3 days to complete. I also had 2 fishermen and 2 Historians going during this time all at novice level so they did add a small bit of fish/books to the total but it's insignificant in the grab scheme of things. Maybe 20-30 books in total and around 100-150 fish.

And if you do decide to do something like this and you rely on rotten food via a piece of equipment for easy mass food that doesn't rot like I did don't forget to equip it for the first 3 months of a project like this. Never thought I'd see a character this far into a game with base physical stats of almost 2s and 3s across the board.

Now onto the money breakdown.

I ended up with a total of

109,412 Bonito Flake Wine
8663 Cursed Bonito Flake Wine
5049 Blessed Bonito Flake Win

That combined with the books gained equated to a total of

3,857,636 Orens
3,501,184 from Bonito Flake Wine
138.608 from Cursed Bonito Flake Wine
201,960 from Blessed Bonito Flake Wine
9,394 from Voynich Manuscriptures
3,674 from Dhol Chants
2,046 from Ponape Scriptures
594 from Revelations of Glaaki
176 from G'harne Fragments

Thank you for reading this however much of it you decided to read. No clue if this is going to be useful to anyone and it's the first time I've done ANYTHING like this for any game let alone deciding to then share said information with other people but yea. Thank you regardless.

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by Just Some Random Kid:

Originally posted by Haperski:

I fished a shark in my 100th-somehing bait and it stopped me from afk fishing (while I took a nap). What to do with it ? Sell it outright ?

This happens when the thing you fished up overcaps your weight to the point of it doing damage to you. Instead of putting it in your inventory it puts it on the ground and stops your fishing.

Note that if you turn off the autopickup for fishing, all the fish will get left on the ground and the only things that can stop you from continuing to fish are running out of bait, dying, or combat. So turn off autopickup, grab an amount of bait you know you can survive using, and then afk fish until it's gone.

I think fish probably spoil faster on the ground (and they spoil extremely fast either way), so only do this if you don't really care about the quality of the fish. Rotted or not doesn't matter for wine making, and for bonito flakes as a seasoning rotten fish add a small negative modifier (I think it's -2 perception) but are still mostly fine.

[Just Some Random Kid]

Originally posted by Sotanaht:

Originally posted by Just Some Random Kid:

This happens when the thing you fished up overcaps your weight to the point of it doing damage to you. Instead of putting it in your inventory it puts it on the ground and stops your fishing.

Note that if you turn off the autopickup for fishing, all the fish will get left on the ground and the only things that can stop you from continuing to fish are running out of bait, dying, or combat. So turn off autopickup, grab an amount of bait you know you can survive using, and then afk fish until it's gone.

The only problem with this is that there seems to be a stack limit on the amount of items that can be in the same tile at once. I've noticed this when digging up large amounts of soil where if I wasn't standing on the tile I was digging I would get 250-300 soil per energy bar and when I was standing on the tile itself it would give me closer to 600-700 soil. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure there is some kind of limit or chance of items being destroyed when a certain amount of items are stacked on the same tile.

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by Just Some Random Kid:

Originally posted by Sotanaht:

Note that if you turn off the autopickup for fishing, all the fish will get left on the ground and the only things that can stop you from continuing to fish are running out of bait, dying, or combat. So turn off autopickup, grab an amount of bait you know you can survive using, and then afk fish until it's gone.

The only problem with this is that there seems to be a stack limit on the amount of items that can be in the same tile at once. I've noticed this when digging up large amounts of soil where if I wasn't standing on the tile I was digging I would get 250-300 soil per energy bar and when I was standing on the tile itself it would give me closer to 600-700 soil. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure there is some kind of limit or chance of items being destroyed when a certain amount of items are stacked on the same tile.

Maybe, but you can only use about 200, maybe 250 bait safely in one go anyway. Assuming the limit is number of stacks rather than number of items (because having a single stack of thousands of items is a pretty common occurrence), I don't think you're running into that problem with fishing even if it is a problem at all.

[Just Some Random Kid]

Originally posted by Sotanaht:

Originally posted by Just Some Random Kid:

The only problem with this is that there seems to be a stack limit on the amount of items that can be in the same tile at once. I've noticed this when digging up large amounts of soil where if I wasn't standing on the tile I was digging I would get 250-300 soil per energy bar and when I was standing on the tile itself it would give me closer to 600-700 soil. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure there is some kind of limit or chance of items being destroyed when a certain amount of items are stacked on the same tile.

Maybe, but you can only use about 200, maybe 250 bait safely in one go anyway. Assuming the limit is number of stacks rather than number of items (because having a single stack of thousands of items is a pretty common occurrence), I don't think you're running into that problem with fishing even if it is a problem at all.

Yea that's true. I just had all of my stations that I needed surrounding me anyways to it was mostly irrelevant for me.

[Dracon]

Is there any reasons you highlighted the blue flowers in particular for this? Wouldn't be taking any flower period be more productive, or am I missing something?

[twitch.tv/GFYE]

Originally posted by Dracon:

Is there any reasons you highlighted the blue flowers in particular for this? Wouldn't be taking any flower period be more productive, or am I missing something?

Take combat missions on the quest board, flower spawns are inflated on these maps for whatever reason, don't search for them on the open world. Just pick them all up and have them sit in your cooler until processed.

[twitch.tv/GFYE]

Originally posted by Just Some Random Kid:

Originally posted by twitch.tv/GFYE:

Last night I spend 2 hours checking every tile on the map looking for a Beach/FISHING SPOT tile with a good 3rd Land Feat. I settled on geyser for a theme of it being my vacation home. I have 1000s of bait waiting to see how the bonus of beach and fishing spot pan out. :)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3381233847

Let me know how it goes so we can see how much of an impact it really makes!

https://imgur.com/a/8J9SFON

Interesting results? Ignore the 2 random lamps next to the cats I bought from the junk shop. 5k bait took me half a day IRL to do with breaks. My luck is not min-maxed, didn't do Ekh or anything to increase results. Level 62 to about 80 if I didn't increase my potential 2 times at the beginning and middle of it. I was shocked how many medals I got. 120 medals from 5k bait plus the millions ill be getting from passive shop policy income is definitely going to be worth it in the long run. Whales and Sharks seem a bit high too compared to your find "if I was to 4.25x the numbers shown to make it comparable to your haul they seem mostly similar."

I noticed a LOT of 2 or 3 fish catch actions and I haven't processed them yet into bonito, that will take tomorrow to do. Are you using mods? My games unmodded.

I was a bit disappointed to only have 1 statue, but if I ever ran this again I'd swap gods and min max it with + fishing gear and do everything possible to get more out of it. Honestly at about 5k bait I was getting bored AF and I couldn't stomach doing 20k in a single go. The most surprising thing about the experiment though was how much I enjoyed just watching my towns folk fighting the random monsters and getting 1k eco just casually chilling in town harvesting plant spirits. It was a good time all in all.

My impressions after this is that FISHING is "under baked" I hope more fish, more events, more drops will be added in the future because its too simple as is.

[Just Some Random Kid]

Originally posted by twitch.tv/GFYE:

Originally posted by Just Some Random Kid:

Let me know how it goes so we can see how much of an impact it really makes!

https://imgur.com/a/8J9SFON

Interesting results? Ignore the 2 random lamps next to the cats I bought from the junk shop. 5k bait took me half a day IRL to do with breaks. My luck is not min-maxed, didn't do Ekh or anything to increase results. Level 62 to about 80 if I didn't increase my potential 2 times at the beginning and middle of it. I was shocked how many medals I got. 120 medals from 5k bait plus the millions ill be getting from passive shop policy income is definitely going to be worth it in the long run. Whales and Sharks seem a bit high too compared to your find "if I was to 4.25x the numbers shown to make it comparable to your haul they seem mostly similar."

I noticed a LOT of 2 or 3 fish catch actions and I haven't processed them yet into bonito, that will take tomorrow to do. Are you using mods? My games unmodded.

I was a bit disappointed to only have 1 statue, but if I ever ran this again I'd swap gods and min max it with + fishing gear and do everything possible to get more out of it. Honestly at about 5k bait I was getting bored AF and I couldn't stomach doing 20k in a single go. The most surprising thing about the experiment though was how much I enjoyed just watching my towns folk fighting the random monsters and getting 1k eco just casually chilling in town harvesting plant spirits. It was a good time all in all.

My impressions after this is that FISHING is "under baked" I hope more fish, more events, more drops will be added in the future because its too simple as is.

My game is also unmodded.

Does Luck actually effect fishing? I don't believe luck actually effects the things that luck usually effects. As far as I know it only works like DnD advantage but specifically for combat. So like crit chance, hit chance, and damage rolls.

As for sharks and whales you are on a Beach and presumably have Fishing spot as well which I didn't have which make huge differences especially for the lower total number fish like Whales and Sharks. I'm actually doing another 20k bait right now and I'm 4k through it and the amount of sharks and whales I have are more then what you've got (which makes sense since I started it at level 175 fishing).

The 2 and 3 actions is just from your land feats most likely. I also noticed that happening when I moved to a beach fishing spot land instead of the default.

The statues certainly are a bit random, sadly I've gotten 4 in the last like 8k bait I've used and 3 of them have been statues of wind lol.

As for Fishing being under baked I think it's better to say it's not very interactive. Of course expanding on things is great and should be done but Fishing is just very very afk. And it becomes more afk the better you become at it and the most weight you have. So it's really not for everyone.

It would be interesting if they made like an "interactive" version of fishing like potentially spear fishing or something where it'd be easier to target specific fish and you could get better results for what you want but it's active instead of passive fishing.

[internetgrout]

No luck rolls are involved with fishing (as far as I know it's pretty much a combat stat):

https://elin-modding-resources.github.io/Elin-Decompiled/AI__Fish_8cs_source.html#l00284

[AnotherBoris]

You guys just don't know how to work with corpses! :D

Look: the hammer produces approximately 0.9 of the product relative to the initial quantity. That is, in the fertilizer -> corpses -> bait scheme, the productivity is 0.9 Bait/Fertilizer.

But there is Butcher's Tool. Look, with the numbers. I took 400 Fertilizer. Turned them into 363 corpses. Those disassembled into:
- 72 Skins
- 76 fangs
- 65 bones
- 76 offals
- 74 hearts

Then I put the offals and hearts back in the composter. Fertilizer yield is proportional to weight, remember? :) And how much do offals
and hearts weigh? First of all :) That turned out to be 214 fertilizers.

And now we're counting. From (400 - 214) = 186 fertilizers, we got:
- 72 Skins
- 76 fangs
- 65 bones

fangs and bones are being converted to Bait. Skins are broken into Pieces with a hammer with the same efficiency of 0.9. (72 * 0.9) = 65
In total, we get
(76 + 65) / 186 = 0.76 Bait/Fertilizer.
65 / 186 = 0.35 Pieces/Fertilizer.


I also checked the option of reworking only offals, as heavier ones. The result is worse there. The same performance of Bait, but lower for Pieces.


Thus, this scheme provides a lower Bait output, but it gives a lot of experience in Crafting, Anatomy and a whole lot of Pieces for thread production.

[Just Some Random Kid]

Originally posted by AnotherBoris:

You guys just don't know how to work with corpses! :D

Look: the hammer produces approximately 0.9 of the product relative to the initial quantity. That is, in the fertilizer -> corpses -> bait scheme, the productivity is 0.9 Bait/Fertilizer.

But there is Butcher's Tool. Look, with the numbers. I took 400 Fertilizer. Turned them into 363 corpses. Those disassembled into:
- 72 Skins
- 76 fangs
- 65 bones
- 76 offals
- 74 hearts

Then I put the offals and hearts back in the composter. Fertilizer yield is proportional to weight, remember? :) And how much do offals
and hearts weigh? First of all :) That turned out to be 214 fertilizers.

And now we're counting. From (400 - 214) = 186 fertilizers, we got:
- 72 Skins
- 76 fangs
- 65 bones

fangs and bones are being converted to Bait. Skins are broken into Pieces with a hammer with the same efficiency of 0.9. (72 * 0.9) = 65
In total, we get
(76 + 65) / 186 = 0.76 Bait/Fertilizer.
65 / 186 = 0.35 Pieces/Fertilizer.


I also checked the option of reworking only offals, as heavier ones. The result is worse there. The same performance of Bait, but lower for Pieces.


Thus, this scheme provides a lower Bait output, but it gives a lot of experience in Crafting, Anatomy and a whole lot of Pieces for thread production.

I mean at the time of me making this I wasn't playing with weight related composting. I was still playing on the 1 to 1 ratio of it.

Also doing it this way IS more effective but it's also like way more tedious then this process already is.

[AnotherBoris]

Originally posted by Just Some Random Kid:

I mean at the time of me making this I wasn't playing with weight related composting. I was still playing on the 1 to 1 ratio of it.

Also doing it this way IS more effective but it's also like way more tedious then this process already is.

They're all tedious :) The difference is in the goal. Corpse -> Bait method is good for fishing. I was looking for an alternative way to produce threads. I found it. Experience + threads + always the right bait.

[AnotherBoris]

Correction.

Skins are also recycled in Butcher's Tool. The average is 2 Pieces/Skin. That is, in the previous calculation, the output of Pieces will be ((72 * 2) / 186) = 0.77 Pieces/Fertilizer.

And that's how the result looks much more interesting.
0.76 Bait/Fertilizer
0.77 Pieces/Fertilizer
Much better than just 0.9 Bait/Fertilizer.


In addition, while playing with the corpses from the soil, I noticed that they are quite heavy and should turn into a lot of fertilizer, but they do not rot. So they need to be made to rot somehow, while retaining their mass. This can be done through Cooking, the main thing is that the Corpse should be a secondary ingredient there, so as not to determine the material of the result. At the same time, it is desirable to have vegetables as the main ingredient so that poisonous mushrooms can be disposed of :) Here are the recipes I found:
Stir fried vegetable Vegetable + corpse + seasoning (Cooker)
Stewed vegetable Vegetable + Vegetable + Corpse (Camp pot, Cooker, Cauldron)

The first one requires seasoning, which is inconvenient. But the second one seems to be fine. But a Corpse weighing 0.5 plus two mushrooms weighing 0.1 gives a meal weighing 0.8, which results in 1 Fertilizer. The meaning of the operation is eluding me :) Create 0.76 Bait and 0.77 Pieces from 2.8 Bait and 0.8 Pieces? Nevertheless, I'm telling you. Maybe someone smarter than me will come up with something :)

[Tenoshii]

Originally posted by AnotherBoris:

Thus, this scheme provides a lower Bait output, but it gives a lot of experience in Crafting, Anatomy and a whole lot of Pieces for thread production.

A way to raise Anatomy besides killing definitely got my attention

Originally posted by AnotherBoris:

Correction.

Skins are also recycled in Butcher's Tool. The average is 2 Pieces/Skin. That is, in the previous calculation, the output of Pieces will be ((72 * 2) / 186) = 0.77 Pieces/Fertilizer.

And that's how the result looks much more interesting.
0.76 Bait/Fertilizer
0.77 Pieces/Fertilizer
Much better than just 0.9 Bait/Fertilizer.


In addition, while playing with the corpses from the soil, I noticed that they are quite heavy and should turn into a lot of fertilizer, but they do not rot. So they need to be made to rot somehow, while retaining their mass. This can be done through Cooking, the main thing is that the Corpse should be a secondary ingredient there, so as not to determine the material of the result. At the same time, it is desirable to have vegetables as the main ingredient so that poisonous mushrooms can be disposed of :) Here are the recipes I found:
Stir fried vegetable Vegetable + corpse + seasoning (Cooker)
Stewed vegetable Vegetable + Vegetable + Corpse (Camp pot, Cooker, Cauldron)

The first one requires seasoning, which is inconvenient. But the second one seems to be fine. But a Corpse weighing 0.5 plus two mushrooms weighing 0.1 gives a meal weighing 0.8, which results in 1 Fertilizer. The meaning of the operation is eluding me :) Create 0.76 Bait and 0.77 Pieces from 2.8 Bait and 0.8 Pieces? Nevertheless, I'm telling you. Maybe someone smarter than me will come up with something :)

Very interesting. Yet another experiment to add to my list...

[AnotherBoris]

Originally posted by Tenoshii:

Very interesting. Yet another experiment to add to my list...

At a minimum, we need to check whether it is possible to cook food inside Harvest quests. If we suddenly get salads for 10-20 stones, we will need to look at the fertilizer output from them :)


However, while I was looking, I found out this. Ordinary corpses that we don't want to use (human or hallucinogenic) instead of a composter, it's better to turn into statues and only then into compost. x4 fertilizer output :)