In Need of an Elona Historian - Sell Me (New) on Elin

[MoonlitDNC]

I saw Elin pop up in community traffic the other night, apparently the game is having a small burst of popularity. I've NEVER heard of this series before.

I'm a BIG fan of Shiren the Wanderer (mystery, exploration, combat), Zomboid (simulation of "realism" and brutal combat/survival challenge), and Way of the Samurai (story, time period, the way that side activities and NPCs tie into the main plot of each game). Stardew and RimWorld have never really caught my interest in the way Harvest Moon and Rune Factory variants have over the years. While I don't mind ~some~ crafting/building, I want it only to be there to serve the purpose of enhancing the adventuring aspect.

I'm seeing people play Elona+ CGX on YouTube and it looks interesting - I like the "massive D&D/RPG world and quest, the dungeoneering, and sheer amount of stuff it looks like you can do.... but then a bunch of chatter seems to imply that the origin of a lot of Elona+ CGX installs might be a bit dubious. Furthermore, some of the Elona+ CGX plays look like pirates or bandits keep accosting the player every-other-minute while traveling the road, and that looks annoying.

Things I do like that I have seen on Elona+ CGX plays though, are the dungeons, the goofy little quests, the insanity of some of the items you can potentially find or train in, the dream scenes, the bizarre effects from drinking well water or random dangerous NPCs entering town.... I see people saying the NPCs have little Skyrim-like schedules, and the world of Elona+ CGX actually looks a bit like it's "alive".

Elin slightly has me worried, because watching a few of the plays that are up, in addition to Lafrontier's own YT page seems to focus on base building. I know that dungeons are around, you can still find random ketchups and gun-toting-clowns here and there.... But it looks like there's also a lot more quests and NPCs that talk to you on Elona+ CGX at the moment than in Elin.

> So for the very very old and experienced walking-Elona-encyclopeists out there, is there anything big that you feel Elin is currently missing, that only Elona has at the moment?

I know Elin is in EA right now and there is more to come, but I assume it's also gonna be a while before it has a sale and housing/crafting has been a bit overdone by a lot of games recently, IMO. I'm mainly looking for a Konosuba-style experience of taking a trashy loser adventurer from a dirty stable to being a rich & famous hero that has a mansion & is setting off to kill god or something. How is Elin faring in that regard so far?

I keep hearing Elin is a "prequel", yet I see it has a lot of the same locations & quests from Elona. If Elin were to wind up replacing Elona entirely with the same features, larger scope & story, I'd rather just get Elin. Does anyone have the ability to elaborate on some of my concerns as a new player that has no idea how to parse all of this sudden information?

[the chazz]

Giving you the history of Elin instead might make things more clear.
Elin began development as "Elin's Inn" and was intended to be a Dwarf Fortress / Rimworld like game where you managed a colony of residents. Though as you said, there's an overabundance of games like this so Noa changed the course of development to be more of a sandbox rpg / rogue-like to basically give the fanbase what we've always wanted: Elona 2. So, "Elin's Inn" turned into "Elin" yet the game's roots are clear to see with the much greater depth and emphasis on base building and crafting. That being said everything else from the original Elona is here, at least as far as I can tell. And base building is something you can begin with, put on hold, or abandon entirely if you so choose. What Elona and Elin really are beyond the rogue-like, sandbox, rpg framework, are highly moddable fantasy life simulators. It can be clunky at times if you don't know what you're doing but there is a lot of freedom here both in and out of the game. You can quite literally draw your own body / face / eyes / hair / accessories and then just name it properly and put it in the right folder and open up the game and equip it.

As far as what you should do, you should recognize first that Elona+ cgx is a massive mod created by fans of the game. So basing expectations for Elin off what Elona+ was doing is a mistake. In a nutshell, power progression is much slower in Elona than it is in Elona+ cgx. Elin is a lot closer to Elona+ in this regard, but it's still no where near as fast and powerlevels between the two games are vastly different. A high end character in Elin has stats in the low hundreds. A high end character in Elona+cgx has stats in the thousands and they have a much easier time getting there too.

If what you want is

Originally posted by MoonlitDNC:

experience of taking a trashy loser adventurer from a dirty stable to being a rich & famous hero that has a mansion & is setting off to kill god or something

then it depends on what you value in that sentence. Gods are not currently in Elin in a physical form. You can pick one to worship, pray and get bonuses from your God as your connection deepens. But killing Gods is not on the menu (yet). Everything else about that experience you described you can do in Elin. But again, progression from weak > strong is a lot slower. If all you care about is the valid need to grind stats and live out your power fantasies then you're going to have a much more pleasant experience playing Elona+cgx

The last thing to note is that Noa is updating this game like a madman. Daily updates are common

[MoonlitDNC]

Originally posted by the chazz:

basing expectations for Elin off what Elona+ was doing is a mistake. In a nutshell, power progression is much slower in Elona than it is in Elona+ cgx. Elin is a lot closer to Elona+ in this regard, but it's still no where near as fast and powerlevels between the two games are vastly different.

If what you want is

Originally posted by MoonlitDNC:

experience of taking a trashy loser adventurer from a dirty stable to being a rich & famous hero that has a mansion & is setting off to kill god or something

then it depends on what you value in that sentence. Gods are not currently in Elin in a physical form. You can pick one to worship, pray and get bonuses from your God as your connection deepens. But killing Gods is not on the menu (yet). Everything else about that experience you described you can do in Elin. But again, progression from weak > strong is a lot slower. If all you care about is the valid need to grind stats and live out your power fantasies then you're going to have a much more pleasant experience playing Elona+cgx

The last thing to note is that Noa is updating this game like a madman. Daily updates are common

There is a lot of good info here, thanks~

Doing my own research, I see that there's a bit of a back-and-forth "sometimes new Elona+ features aren't 100% liked by the playerbase" thing happening, and then CGX will revert an unliked change closer to vanilla. From my perspective, I don't mind a slower & more methodical approach to things - I'm currently running Wizardry Forsaken Land on PS2 and am absolutely steamrolling it (I'm not sure if it was ever considered as challenging as older Wizardry though) because I'm taking my time and powering up with small trips into the dungeon.

"Kill god or something" was a bit of hyperbole on my part, I only say it because it's the stereotypical endgame for most JRPGs. I'm more interested if Elin currently has something resembling a main overarching quest as of current EA. From what I could tell, Elona+ added an entirely second and third act to the game, so from my perspective, that comes with the double-edged sword of anything beyond that first act likely not being applicable to Elin's canon, yet it means more main quest to pursue as the character grows.

That actually is a pretty important point - if Elona+ is rushing new players along faster at the start of the game just to get them to newer content or endgame faster, I have a distaste for that. I'm specifically here for the challenge and the simulation.

It bugs me though, that Elona still seems valid to the overall series' lore, especially if Noa ever makes a third game taking place farther on in the future. It's hard scraping together updated info (particularly in English) about the best way & order in which to play things, or if Elin is currently missing any content most players felt was "essential" to having an iconic Elona playthrough. Ideally in my mind, Elin would basically be a modern 2024 Elona so much that I'd never need to bother giving Elona a try - as of current it;s my understand this isn't the intent of Noa, at least regarding period & setting.

Lastly, I usually play Zomboid in permadeath mode. I'll pick a couple months out of a year that it has a big update, see how far I can get, and then try again some other year. Contrast that to Minecraft - in some regards, Minecraft is just so open-ended that I just cant justify myself returning to it because it's actually SO open-ended I feel like I'm wandering aimlessly without purpose. Dragon Quest Builders is much more fun because combat feels meaningful-ish and there's a main quest to advance. I'd be interested to know how well Elona(+ CGX) and Elin play once you've gotten more powerful & if they have main quests that keep pushing you to want to improve your character.... without treading into that dreaded "aimlessness in Minecraft" feeling I catch. Hopefully I'm explaining myself well.

[the chazz]

It all gets a bit murky honestly when you say things like the "playerbase". I don't envy you trying to do research and parse it all to have a good understanding.
All of the variants are made by different people (+ is different to +Custom is different to +Custom-G is different to +CGX), the rough and incomplete english translation had inaccuracies for the longest time (parasitize becomes pregnancy) and removed story cutscenes which was the primary way Noa conveyed Elona's story so we didn't know what the fk was going on. Then you have the Japanese playerbase, the Western playerbase and the Chinese playerbase. These communities don't really talk to each other obviously and it's not like there is one central place for each of them. And these mods have been around for a long time. Noa only developed the original Elona back in '07 for ~3 years as far as I am aware. + has been around for at least like 12 years.

I don't know about other people but for me, the new regions added in the chain of + variants really just served as harder content to challenge my character and make them stronger. Going back to the english translations the new regions were especially rough in this category, borderline gibberish.

Narratively, Elin is a prequel to Elona so of course the original game is valid to the series lore! The true sequel to Elona is something Noa said that he does hope to make one day and he certainly has added motivation now with the popularity Elin has experienced. He wants that game to be a true top-down classic roguelike game. For now, Elin is filling the role of being "Elona 2"

Concerning permadeath. Do not play these games with permadeath on when you're new, they're not even designed for it. Permadeath are for challenge runs when you're very experienced.
I find the way you really play these games and stick with them starts with roleplay. Unlike something like Minecraft you are never just dropped into the world. You have to make choices on your character sheet. It's very DnD in this way. Sticking to an idea for a character informs everything else you do and keeps you engaged. It narrows the potential ways you play by requiring you to make choices that make sense for your character, even though technically you can do anything.

Originally posted by MoonlitDNC:

That actually is a pretty important point - if Elona+ is rushing new players along faster at the start of the game just to get them to newer content or endgame faster, I have a distaste for that. I'm specifically here for the challenge and the simulation.

Based on what you said here and in your previous posts, I would really just recommend that you go with Elin. Give it a shot. You always have steam's 2 hour refund window. You seem to be an overthinker haha. Make a decision!!!

[MarvinEhre]

Originally posted by the chazz:

It all gets a bit murky honestly when you say things like the "playerbase". I don't envy you trying to do research and parse it all to have a good understanding.
All of the variants are made by different people (+ is different to +Custom is different to +Custom-G is different to +CGX), the rough and incomplete english translation had inaccuracies for the longest time (parasitize becomes pregnancy) and removed story cutscenes which was the primary way Noa conveyed Elona's story so we didn't know what the fk was going on. Then you have the Japanese playerbase, the Western playerbase and the Chinese playerbase. These communities don't really talk to each other obviously and it's not like there is one central place for each of them. And these mods have been around for a long time. Noa only developed the original Elona back in '07 for ~3 years as far as I am aware. + has been around for at least like 12 years.

I don't know about other people but for me, the new regions added in the chain of + variants really just served as harder content to challenge my character and make them stronger. Going back to the english translations the new regions were especially rough in this category, borderline gibberish.

Narratively, Elin is a prequel to Elona so of course the original game is valid to the series lore! The true sequel to Elona is something Noa said that he does hope to make one day and he certainly has added motivation now with the popularity Elin has experienced. He wants that game to be a true top-down classic roguelike game. For now, Elin is filling the role of being "Elona 2"

Concerning permadeath. Do not play these games with permadeath on when you're new, they're not even designed for it. Permadeath are for challenge runs when you're very experienced.
I find the way you really play these games and stick with them starts with roleplay. Unlike something like Minecraft you are never just dropped into the world. You have to make choices on your character sheet. It's very DnD in this way. Sticking to an idea for a character informs everything else you do and keeps you engaged. It narrows the potential ways you play by requiring you to make choices that make sense for your character, even though technically you can do anything.

Originally posted by MoonlitDNC:

That actually is a pretty important point - if Elona+ is rushing new players along faster at the start of the game just to get them to newer content or endgame faster, I have a distaste for that. I'm specifically here for the challenge and the simulation.

Based on what you said here and in your previous posts, I would really just recommend that you go with Elin. Give it a shot. You always have steam's 2 hour refund window. You seem to be an overthinker haha. Make a decision!!!

Random question is there somewhere a summary about what the 3 mods each change? And which would you reccomend? As I also want to get into Elona.

[Darx]

the only thing i dont like about it is that they removed the levels from your main character and that there are incredibly less feats now

[Vanguard]

The combat in Elona in Elin is similar to, but much worse than Shiren the Wanderer's. Shiren is a game designed to allow you to punch way above your level with effective use of items and such, battles in Elona and Elin are primarily decided by who has higher stats and better equipment. You still can throw potions of paralysis and what have you to stun enemies but if your attacks barely hurt them and can't outpace their regeneration because their defense is too high and your attack is too low, you won't get the kill. Don't go in expecting top shelf roguelike combat basically.

Elin plays much like Elona did, they are both fantasy adventurer life simulators. In both games you can play as a farmer, a musical performer, a prostitute or a traveling adventurer, or some combination of those, among many other options. Elin just adds base building to the mix, and just like being able to ignore the performer skill in Elona if it doesn't interest you, you can use your base as the campfire in the woods that it was when you found it if you don't care about that feature.

Elin is missing a few features from Elona. You don't run into bandits or merchants while traveling on the overworld, many of the static dungeons can't be visited yet. Noa is updating pretty fast and I wouldn't be surprised if it catches up quick.

[Swift-Li]

Nobody mention about the loots! A lot of awesome loots in the game!

[absolutfxh]

Just play the game. You're not entitled to anything. You will get your money's worth and dozens of hours minimum.

[Dungledoo]

Originally posted by MoonlitDNC:

I saw Elin pop up in community traffic the other night, apparently the game is having a small burst of popularity. I've NEVER heard of this series before.

I'm a BIG fan of Shiren the Wanderer (mystery, exploration, combat), Zomboid (simulation of "realism" and brutal combat/survival challenge), and Way of the Samurai (story, time period, the way that side activities and NPCs tie into the main plot of each game). Stardew and RimWorld have never really caught my interest in the way Harvest Moon and Rune Factory variants have over the years. While I don't mind ~some~ crafting/building, I want it only to be there to serve the purpose of enhancing the adventuring aspect.

I'm seeing people play Elona+ CGX on YouTube and it looks interesting - I like the "massive D&D/RPG world and quest, the dungeoneering, and sheer amount of stuff it looks like you can do.... but then a bunch of chatter seems to imply that the origin of a lot of Elona+ CGX installs might be a bit dubious. Furthermore, some of the Elona+ CGX plays look like pirates or bandits keep accosting the player every-other-minute while traveling the road, and that looks annoying.

Things I do like that I have seen on Elona+ CGX plays though, are the dungeons, the goofy little quests, the insanity of some of the items you can potentially find or train in, the dream scenes, the bizarre effects from drinking well water or random dangerous NPCs entering town.... I see people saying the NPCs have little Skyrim-like schedules, and the world of Elona+ CGX actually looks a bit like it's "alive".

Elin slightly has me worried, because watching a few of the plays that are up, in addition to Lafrontier's own YT page seems to focus on base building. I know that dungeons are around, you can still find random ketchups and gun-toting-clowns here and there.... But it looks like there's also a lot more quests and NPCs that talk to you on Elona+ CGX at the moment than in Elin.

> So for the very very old and experienced walking-Elona-encyclopeists out there, is there anything big that you feel Elin is currently missing, that only Elona has at the moment? :mhwgood:

I know Elin is in EA right now and there is more to come, but I assume it's also gonna be a while before it has a sale and housing/crafting has been a bit overdone by a lot of games recently, IMO. I'm mainly looking for a Konosuba-style experience of taking a trashy loser adventurer from a dirty stable to being a rich & famous hero that has a mansion & is setting off to kill god or something. How is Elin faring in that regard so far?

I keep hearing Elin is a "prequel", yet I see it has a lot of the same locations & quests from Elona. If Elin were to wind up replacing Elona entirely with the same features, larger scope & story, I'd rather just get Elin. Does anyone have the ability to elaborate on some of my concerns as a new player that has no idea how to parse all of this sudden information?

Never played Elona, but after watching Sseth's video on it, and seeing this is the sequel, I picked it up. This is the only game that has let me:

-Take a little girl as a starting companion

-Feed this little girl magic mushrooms and watch her murder local wildlife mistaking them for the homeless

-Learn a skill which allows me to ride this little girl

-Hire a talking bird with gold ingots, which I then figured out could ride me

-Take this abomination out into the fields to help the locals with their farm

-Harvest a 50lb corn and proceed to do so again. Then kill myself under the weight of the corn.

-Savescum and complete the quest, and obtain a bottle of liquor, which I use to soak a mugger with after chucking it at him and have my lightning deal extra damage.

I've only built what I have wanted to, most everything I own is from dungeons.

I would recommend 10/10

[MoonlitDNC]

Originally posted by the chazz:

Based on what you said here and in your previous posts, I would really just recommend that you go with Elin. Give it a shot. You always have steam's 2 hour refund window. You seem to be an overthinker haha. Make a decision!!!

Not untrue - you should see my posts detailing how turn Final Fantasy XII into an open-ended offline MMO over on that discussion board. Playing FF12 in that sort of format is like a crack-cocaine I've not experienced since getting Fallout 1 & 2 modded & working.

The thing is, I got burned by Starbound back in the day. Imagine if the Super Metroid and MegaMan Zero series spawned an open-ended space exploration baby. You could choose your race, get dropped on a dangerous/unknown random planet with random monsters, struggle in vain to survive, and then go on to explore the universe at your own random pace to solve the mystery of "why are we here" ....and then when they left Early Access they gutted all of that open-ended roleplaying potential and made it a 2D-action hack 'n slash where everyone was forced to have the same boring story & progression. A small piece of me died that day.

That said, I thank everyone that has posted their thoughts on Elin so far. I have been pouring over the Steam user reviews for Elin as they come in too, and Elin is definitely going to be the next Steam game I buy -that's not in question at this point- I just need to figure out if I'm going to try Elona first, or wait and see if someone has the gumption to do a full conversion of Elona in Elin's workshop page/similar. The prospect of having a game once again, to tell friends about horribly random misadventures & untimely demise is too enticing to pass up. It's just a shame that history, story/lore, and documentation are a raging pain to find, particularly for Elona right now - it's something I hope Noa/Lafrontier correct with Elin.

[Z03]

If it helps, NOA has confirmed that he plans on adding unique townsfolk, akin to farming games like SOS/TOT/RF4 in the near future.
Although it’s not going to be as fleshed out considering the sheer amount of NPCs in Elin. It’s awesome he’s already planning on making the game even more immersive and lively.

I also suggested adding back tones from Elona, situational dialogue so modders can script companion dialogue (and potential romances).

Personally I’d recommend it but I’m very biased. I really respect the creator of the game, he’s one of the few devs I can wholeheartedly support, dude puts an insane amount of love and care into his creations.
Since release he’s been working around the clock, releasing hotfixes, changes, updates etc. (WHILE also being the one who deals with community feedback, I was shocked to hear a personal response from him after sending my feedback) and he’s very openminded to feedback and genuinely considers suggestions given to him.
Buy the game, support an awesome dev, there will be huge content updates long to come, send suggestions you have and if you’re lucky you might see it end up in the game!

[Z03]

Also as you seem on the fence about Elona, I 10/10 suggest you try that game out first. It’s free and will give you a general idea of what to expect for Elin.

Elona+custom with beautify pack is the standard variation amongst most EN players.