Hard to Lunar Transition - Any Suggestions?

[☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel]

I recently completed all classes in hard mode (solo). I'm pretty comfortable with 95% of the attack patterns (still make some dumb mistakes but generally am aware enough i'm making a dumb mistake to defensive them) and some of the class clears were one shots (varied from ratchet builds with only 750 dps on Shira to wild "spam special get bonuses" builds)

I know that Lunar's primary change is in the amount of lives (3 vs 5) which makes damage more punishing, shopkeeper healing more punishing for your money, and items that grant HP significantly more useful (although midsummer dress is generally very good for some classes and Blue Rose is kind of bonkers).

I was wondering before I jump into the deep end of lunar is there suggestions from regular Lunar players that they'd like to share, or insight into the attack pattern changes that you've noticed. I'm playing solo for this as my friends cap out at normal.

[unripe mango]

i strongly recommend recording yourself while you play. if a mechanic is unclear, rewatch the footage and see if there are indicators you might not have noticed the first time.

you might consider this cheating, but solo players can pause the game and still see most of what's going on onscreen, or otherwise stop and process what's going on. some of these mechanics are nearly unreadable on a first try, or require faster processing than what you're currently capable of.

here's where i'd rank the areas by difficulty:

scholar's nest (easiest)
king's arsenal, emerald lakeside
red darkhouse
churchmouse streets (hardest)

the pale keep is very easy to compensate for the fact that it's going to be the area you've the least time spent practicing. shira is only slightly harder and chances are good you have a build that can skip most of it or trivialize it.

a tip for ranalie lasers: one laser will always be spinning in the opposite direction of the other two (if all three spun in the same direction, there would be no safe spot). knowing this, you can figure out a system to process these faster.

initially even the outskirts are going to seem difficult, but in time you will find all of lunar to be easy.

[phenir]

Originally posted by ☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel:

and items that grant HP significantly more useful (although midsummer dress is generally very good for some classes and Blue Rose is kind of bonkers).

Lol no. You may be unaware but there are enrage timers and they are very strict on lunar. You generally can't afford to take healing or +hp items, especially if they don't increase your dps in some way.

[☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel]

Originally posted by phenir:

Originally posted by ☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel:

and items that grant HP significantly more useful (although midsummer dress is generally very good for some classes and Blue Rose is kind of bonkers).

Lol no. You may be unaware but there are enrage timers and they are very strict on lunar. You generally can't afford to take healing or +hp items, especially if they don't increase your dps in some way.

So the insight here is the rage timers are more aggressive then hard mode? do you have a general idea of 1st boss required dps and Shira required dps that you can share?

[☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel]

Originally posted by unripe mango:

i strongly recommend recording yourself while you play. if a mechanic is unclear, rewatch the footage and see if there are indicators you might not have noticed the first time.

you might consider this cheating, but solo players can pause the game and still see most of what's going on onscreen, or otherwise stop and process what's going on. some of these mechanics are nearly unreadable on a first try, or require faster processing than what you're currently capable of.

here's where i'd rank the areas by difficulty:

scholar's nest (easiest)
king's arsenal, emerald lakeside
red darkhouse
churchmouse streets (hardest)

the pale keep is very easy to compensate for the fact that it's going to be the area you've the least time spent practicing. shira is only slightly harder and chances are good you have a build that can skip most of it or trivialize it.

a tip for ranalie lasers: one laser will always be spinning in the opposite direction of the other two (if all three spun in the same direction, there would be no safe spot). knowing this, you can figure out a system to process these faster.

initially even the outskirts are going to seem difficult, but in time you will find all of lunar to be easy.

I started recording my runs recently not so I could see mechanics necessarily but to analyze my in the heat of the moment rotational anomalies, this is is definitely something i’ll try. I’m pretty used to the spinners from Hard at this point and only a few of them trip me up anymore, and the first thing i look for is opposing directions. I didn’t realize the pause trick which is super helpful.

Thanks for the comprehensive answer, sounds like i’m going to have to grind the mechanics again but that’s part of the fun :)

[phenir]

Originally posted by ☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel:

Originally posted by phenir:

Lol no. You may be unaware but there are enrage timers and they are very strict on lunar. You generally can't afford to take healing or +hp items, especially if they don't increase your dps in some way.

So the insight here is the rage timers are more aggressive then hard mode? do you have a general idea of 1st boss required dps and Shira required dps that you can share?

I don't know exacts but iirc from some basic testing, you have about 2 less "patterns" to kill a given boss on top of them having extra health (10%+ extra health, gets larger as you go along due to faster level scaling).

[bishoujoe]

Originally posted by ☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel:

Originally posted by phenir:

Lol no. You may be unaware but there are enrage timers and they are very strict on lunar. You generally can't afford to take healing or +hp items, especially if they don't increase your dps in some way.

So the insight here is the rage timers are more aggressive then hard mode? do you have a general idea of 1st boss required dps and Shira required dps that you can share?

Recently found a spreadsheet that someone's compiling for solo lunar minimum DPS required before enrage. It's incomplete but seems accurate from my anecdotal experience of a few dozen lunar clears:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xLXPVNvTbSkEp9v7Ru3_NjtyLuaYnpKYqj3Fd4gQJjQ/edit?pli=1&gid=530945263#gid=530945263

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by phenir:

Lol no. You may be unaware but there are enrage timers and they are very strict on lunar. You generally can't afford to take healing or +hp items, especially if they don't increase your dps in some way.

You can take a +hp item. I often do. Taking more than one is asking for it if you don't already have good dps items, but you can get away with one no problem.
Sometimes I even take a +hp item as my very first one. Though if I do that I'm prepared to restart if my second item doesn't give me the damage I need.

[☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel]

Originally posted by santagasm:

Originally posted by ☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel:

So the insight here is the rage timers are more aggressive then hard mode? do you have a general idea of 1st boss required dps and Shira required dps that you can share?

Recently found a spreadsheet that someone's compiling for solo lunar minimum DPS required before enrage. It's incomplete but seems accurate from my anecdotal experience of a few dozen lunar clears:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xLXPVNvTbSkEp9v7Ru3_NjtyLuaYnpKYqj3Fd4gQJjQ/edit?pli=1&gid=530945263#gid=530945263

Thanks for sharing. Looks like the DPS requirement is roughly 25-30% more than on hardmode.

[☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I plan jump in over the weekend. If anyone's interested i'll update how it's going.

[Paulie]

Originally posted by ☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel:

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I plan jump in over the weekend. If anyone's interested i'll update how it's going.

How has it been? I hope you've been finding Lunar fun and rewarding.

Might be late to the party, but I thought I'd toss my 2 cents here as well :)

As someone who solo'd Lunar with every Rabbit and also finally got a no-damage run a couple days ago -- not trying to flex here, it took me probably thousands of failed runs and over 370 hours of playtime to get here haha -- the best advise I can give is... Just keep at it. This game takes a lot of learning and some people learn fast and some people, like me, learn slow... Eventually you'll get to the point where you remember the mechanics and know the tells and what you need to do and what you'll need to do next. Chip away at mechanics and soon there'll be enough of them that you know how to do by heart without taking damage, which should get you closer to your clear!

When starting off, focus on specific areas and get your area clear achievements on them first, one by one. Don't confuse yourself by exposing yourself to a bunch of different mechanics from a bunch of different places. When practicing a specific area, if you can consistently get to the area boss but are still struggling with it, consider installing Boss Practice mods from the Workshop. They'll let you jump straight into any Area Boss fight, making the practice a bit more efficient and streamlined.

If you really struggle understanding some mechanics, look up SageVarq's channel on Youtube. They've videos of them simply doing the boss mechanics (only Area Bosses as far as I know) without attacking, so it might help understand movement and positioning needed.

Also figuring out a good setup for the Rabbit you're playing helps. Each has item/upgrade combinations that go crazy and boost your damage significantly which does allow you to grab HP/defensive/utility items without fearing of failing the DPS checks, contrary to what someone said before. For example Defender garnet secondary + emerald special goes really hard and just on their own basically double or triple your base damage output. You might not get that combination in every run, but understanding what works and what doesn't helps you avoid some "dead" runs once you start going for clears.

Either way, I hope you don't get discouraged, I personally loved the Solo Lunar grind a lot and hope that you will too. If I can offer any more insight, I'd be happy to.

[☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel]

Originally posted by Paulie:

Originally posted by ☈ⒶⒹical ടquirrel:

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I plan jump in over the weekend. If anyone's interested i'll update how it's going.

How has it been? I hope you've been finding Lunar fun and rewarding.

Might be late to the party, but I thought I'd toss my 2 cents here as well :)

As someone who solo'd Lunar with every Rabbit and also finally got a no-damage run a couple days ago -- not trying to flex here, it took me probably thousands of failed runs and over 370 hours of playtime to get here haha -- the best advise I can give is... Just keep at it. This game takes a lot of learning and some people learn fast and some people, like me, learn slow... Eventually you'll get to the point where you remember the mechanics and know the tells and what you need to do and what you'll need to do next. Chip away at mechanics and soon there'll be enough of them that you know how to do by heart without taking damage, which should get you closer to your clear!

When starting off, focus on specific areas and get your area clear achievements on them first, one by one. Don't confuse yourself by exposing yourself to a bunch of different mechanics from a bunch of different places. When practicing a specific area, if you can consistently get to the area boss but are still struggling with it, consider installing Boss Practice mods from the Workshop. They'll let you jump straight into any Area Boss fight, making the practice a bit more efficient and streamlined.

If you really struggle understanding some mechanics, look up SageVarq's channel on Youtube. They've videos of them simply doing the boss mechanics (only Area Bosses as far as I know) without attacking, so it might help understand movement and positioning needed.

Also figuring out a good setup for the Rabbit you're playing helps. Each has item/upgrade combinations that go crazy and boost your damage significantly which does allow you to grab HP/defensive/utility items without fearing of failing the DPS checks, contrary to what someone said before. For example Defender garnet secondary + emerald special goes really hard and just on their own basically double or triple your base damage output. You might not get that combination in every run, but understanding what works and what doesn't helps you avoid some "dead" runs once you start going for clears.

Either way, I hope you don't get discouraged, I personally loved the Solo Lunar grind a lot and hope that you will too. If I can offer any more insight, I'd be happy to.

slow learner here too --- I've got most of the outskirts fights down but some are much more difficult than others so not full consistancy there yet. Scholars nest I have some difficulty in the 3rd fight but beatable depending on if i have proper dps or not. Haven't had as much time to play lately because of computer issues but log on once in a while to make sure i don't fully lose the mechanics. It'll probably take me some time to push past the wall. I'm not excited for Ranalie....