Only good with controller and other people

[Happyandfree]

Hi everyone,

I tried the Demo now and I can see why it is 98% positive, but that´s only positive when you play it on a controller and with other people.

If you try to change keybinds on Keyboard and Mouse, you will see that you can´t really map anything on LMB, RMB, or any other Mouse button, which would make the usual WASD movement possible. The initial keybinds are the arrow keys and ZXCV for skills, which in all honesty is just bad for keyboard.
Accessibility in this game is really bad as you can see. We need to be able to put keybinds wherever we want. That´s standard in the industry. I can do that too in any MMO, which this game is often compared to and what actually drew my attention.

Now lets talk about solo vs co-op.

If you play solo, then you will see that nearly everyone has an ability that says "allies" on it.
Classes like assassin get 30% dmg when the boss is facing away and Dancer deals really low dmg when trying to make a Solo run, compared to wizard or other classes.

This shows that the game is absolutely not tailored to be played solo, despite having achievements or unlocks that require solo play. Kinda meh if you ask me.

If the Devs make Solo more enjoyable or tailor the classes in a way so you can also play it solo and do some balancing for solo runs AND give you the option to map your keybindings in any way you want, then I can see a lot of potential for this game.

As it is now though, the game really doesn´t shine for keyboard and mouse and solo play. Let´s hope they change that, so more players can enjoy the game

[Xersin]

You say the game isn't designed for solo, but judging by your class complaints, I don't think you currently have the skill level to be able to judge the game. There's no aggro in this game, so saying the Assassin needs other players is flatout wrong, and if you're doing low damage on a Dancer, you are REALLY playing wrong.

[Dominic]

" Dancer deals really low dmg when trying to make a Solo run" LMAO

also keyboard and mouse is fine. arrowkeys are fine for movement (esp cuz i have experience with plenty of 2hu and rpgmaker games) and i remapped the skills to be q,w,e,r and inventory to be on tab. you also can keybind to mouse if you have mouse with side buttons btw (which any experienced mmo player should have).

assassin also isnt that hard to backstab with, its not like the boss tracks playercharacter... you just sound like you have a skill issue

[Nekololizu]

"Classes like assassin get 30% dmg when the boss is facing away"
There is apparently a 100% chance to backstab bosses once they transform no matter what direction you attack them from, so its always going to be active when you need it the most.
Assassin is perfectly fine as is.

"If you play solo, then you will see that nearly everyone has an ability that says "allies" on it."
skills/buffs applying to other ppl is more like a bonus imo and does not make anything worse for solo, it can even be worth to pick up items that say "allies" on it if its the luck trumpet or the defensive reset harp etc, as those are really strong for just 1 person as well.

As for keybinds no clue, only been playing on gamepad so can't comment much about kb or kb/mouse

[Happyandfree]

Originally posted by Dominic:

"
also keyboard and mouse is fine. arrowkeys are fine for movement (esp cuz i have experience with plenty of 2hu and rpgmaker games) and i remapped the skills to be q,w,e,r and inventory to be on tab. you also can keybind to mouse if you have mouse with side buttons btw.

It´s not. look at the majority of games, also mmos like FF14, wow or shooters like CS etc. Whats the basic movement in 99,99% of the games? It´s WASD. Don´t know who came up with the weird idea to make arrows the movement key. Just feels off.

As I wrote initially, I played the demo and I can safely say that you 100% can´t remap any skill to your LMB or RMB mouse buttons, which is weird. Maybe that comes with the full game, but I wouldn´t know about that, as I played the demo and wanted the usual WASD movement with mousebuttons for skills.

This could be great to announce inside the demo, that these things are available when buying the game, cause thats what people are gonna try out first.

[Dominic]

Originally posted by Discarvio:

Originally posted by Dominic:

"
also keyboard and mouse is fine. arrowkeys are fine for movement (esp cuz i have experience with plenty of 2hu and rpgmaker games) and i remapped the skills to be q,w,e,r and inventory to be on tab. you also can keybind to mouse if you have mouse with side buttons btw.

As I wrote initially, I played the demo and I can safely say that you 100% can´t remap any skill to your LMB or RMB mouse buttons, which is weird. Maybe that comes with the full game, but I wouldn´t know about that, as I played the demo and wanted the usual WASD movement with mousebuttons for skills

and if you can read i said you can keybind to mouse if you have sidebuttons. i got a mouse with 12 buttons on side that i can keybind to without issue. yes i cant keybind to left/right click but the others are fine

[Selphos]

Why would you try to play a 2D sidescrolling shoot-em-up with your mouse buttons
And yes the facing of the boss is static to her pattern you do not need anyone's help to do a gorillion damage on assassin

[Ravenwild]

I mean not being able to rebind keys wherever you want is always bad, but why do you need to put stuff on the mouse in order to play with wasd? You don't need the mouse to aim in this game, just use both hands on the keyboard.

[Oro]

Don´t know who came up with the weird idea to make arrows the movement key.

kek

[MrGrumpywumps]

You can keybind to mouse in the keybinds menu. The options are in the bottom left. I use the mouse for movement/primary/secondary/special. It feels a lot better than I thought it would.

[Broster]

Originally posted by Discarvio:

Originally posted by Dominic:

"
also keyboard and mouse is fine. arrowkeys are fine for movement (esp cuz i have experience with plenty of 2hu and rpgmaker games) and i remapped the skills to be q,w,e,r and inventory to be on tab. you also can keybind to mouse if you have mouse with side buttons btw.

It´s not. look at the majority of games, also mmos like FF14, wow or shooters like CS etc. Whats the basic movement in 99,99% of the games? It´s WASD. Don´t know who came up with the weird idea to make arrows the movement key. Just feels off.

As I wrote initially, I played the demo and I can safely say that you 100% can´t remap any skill to your LMB or RMB mouse buttons, which is weird. Maybe that comes with the full game, but I wouldn´t know about that, as I played the demo and wanted the usual WASD movement with mousebuttons for skills.

This could be great to announce inside the demo, that these things are available when buying the game, cause thats what people are gonna try out first.

actually arrow keys and ZXCV is very normal for 2D games, idk what you're on about

[Squidvasion]

This is one of the few games in memory that I actually don't mind using arrow keys to move. it makes perfect sense given its 2D setting and cooldown rotation centric combat.

[Elmdor]

You can 100% rebind your keys to use WASD.

I found that the keybinding options in the game were better than most. I turned off mouse movement and use left and right mouse to use primary and secondary. Almost no games let you do that.

[FrozenMoonsoul]

Allow me to address these individually - though I will ignore the rebinding thing because a) I only rarely rebind keys at all, and certainly not for a game with such a "small" control scheme, and b) others already addressed it.

Originally posted by Discarvio:

(...) The initial keybinds are the arrow keys and ZXCV for skills, which in all honesty is just bad for keyboard.

Clearly what has been an established standards in PC shoot 'em ups for decades is just bad for PC shoot 'em ups. No, seriously, this comes with the genre. It's also the default for most Japanese games, on a semi-related note (seeing how this game is related to bullet hell shmups, which are predominantly Japanese).

Originally posted by Discarvio:

(...) If you play solo, then you will see that nearly everyone has an ability that says "allies" on it.

So? You are an ally of yourself, too.

Originally posted by Discarvio:

Classes like assassin get 30% dmg when the boss is facing away and Dancer deals really low dmg when trying to make a Solo run, compared to wizard or other classes.

Assassins can Vanish and/or just, you know, move behind their target. Other players are almost completely irrelevant for them. Additionally, transformed bosses (mostly stage bosses, but still) can be backstabbed from anywhere. Dancer can deal reasonably comparable damage "against" Wizard given that it has just about thrice the mobility. (Personally, I actually get more out of Dancer because I'm just not very good at Wizard.)

Originally posted by Discarvio:

This shows that the game is absolutely not tailored to be played solo (...)

No. No, it doesn't. It shows that the game is structured in a way that allows you to learn a class in solo play and apply the same knowledge you already have to multiplayer, or vice versa, or to eschew one in favour of the other entirely.

Originally posted by Discarvio:

(...) despite having achievements or unlocks that require solo play. Kinda meh if you ask me.

Except not a single unlock in the game explicitly requires you to play alone or in multiplayer. The story achievements do, yes, but you can unlock literally everything else by just grinding it out. I sure am not good enough to clear everything on Lunar for the Music Room unlocks, but I can just defeat enough stage bosses instead.

Originally posted by Discarvio:

If the Devs make Solo more enjoyable

Subjective.

Originally posted by Discarvio:

or tailor the classes in a way so you can also play it solo

Already perfectly doable.

Originally posted by Discarvio:

and do some balancing for solo runs (...)

Outside of, you know, giving bosses vastly different mechanics to accomodate for the fact that you're alone and scaling enemy health to the amount of players (i.e. one)?

Originally posted by Discarvio:

As it is now though, the game really doesn´t shine for keyboard and mouse and solo play. Let´s hope they change that, so more players can enjoy the game

I've been playing this game keyboard only and mostly solo since I got it. I've been enjoying the game plenty. I really don't know what to tell you.

[Vivian, Mana & Kendall]

Originally posted by Discarvio:

Originally posted by Dominic:

"
also keyboard and mouse is fine. arrowkeys are fine for movement (esp cuz i have experience with plenty of 2hu and rpgmaker games) and i remapped the skills to be q,w,e,r and inventory to be on tab. you also can keybind to mouse if you have mouse with side buttons btw.

It´s not. look at the majority of games, also mmos like FF14, wow or shooters like CS etc. Whats the basic movement in 99,99% of the games? It´s WASD. Don´t know who came up with the weird idea to make arrows the movement key. Just feels off.

Oh look. You named a bunch of genres that don't apply to a 2D shooter by any stretch of the imagination.

Arrow keys is standard for 2D shooters like this.

[Blurrg]

Set your Mouse Mode to Click Only and you are able to assign your mouse buttons to abilities. Everything else you said is skill issue, every class has builds that can do pretty great dps.