Bruiser probably need a buff (Let's talk)

[Quentcat]

- Her range is very lacking more than other mele class. Both horizontaly (secondary) and more importantly verticaly
- You don't have a button you can use when doing mechanic (like dancer secondary or assassin secondary) others have (heavyblade range is so big you still hit people doing mechanics)
- She's reliant on the burst allowed by rage (special) but you easily get bambozled by a mechanic going at the same time or right after pressing the button
- Bosses can even dodge some burst attack by dashing behind her

All those negatives can be fine but her burst really doesn't have the damages for it to be worth doing nothing when not in rage (due to the mechanics going on and lack of range) and the burst being dodged or having to delay it because something is incoming (you having to move away for some reason).

To still keep the design idea, some propositions:
- Boosting the damage of the primary
or(/and?)
- Making the jab (secondary) going in the direction of the target (like archer garnet primary but without the range and damage obviously) so you still can do stuff while moving around (not too far you're still a mele, stay in contact)

[オバケイドロマスター]

What she needs is not a buff but a nerf.
In my opinion, she's a top-tier class in both solo and multiplayer modes.
I've cleared both solo and multiplayer hard modes with a Bruiser.

With quick cooldowns and two stacks of defensive abilities, she can abuse defensive capabilities, and most of her upgrades are powerful except for the secondary ones.
Understanding the gimmicks makes it easy to keep avoiding attacks while putting out high DPS.
The "game-breaking" synergy can also be easily achieved compared to other classes.

Her burst isn't that important. Once Rage is activated, just use the primary attack five times. That's all.
Also, regardless of the class, you shouldn't use skills that stop movement when facing imminent gimmicks.

[Quentcat]

Jab doesn't stop movement and the burst doesn't stop your movement since rage remove your speed penalty from primary.
I was speaking from a multiplayer point of view i can see how 2 dash can be very good in solo but like you're suposed to what ? Dash in mele and not doing the mechanics ? if you do that your allies die
And i was judging from the vanilla not with gems. it's easy to make something insanely good with gems (and items) with any class

[オバケイドロマスター]

The two dashes are actually more useful in multiplayer.
This is because they can address "unavoidable" attacks that occur when allies die.
If you've played on hard mode, you've probably seen situations with bosses like dragons or frogs where color mechanics or AoE effects occur when allies die.
In such situations, many classes have to wait for the 15-second cooldown of their defensive abilities, but the Bruiser can easily avoid this. I execute mechanics "cleanly" and use dashes to recover from my allies mistakes.

Additionally, using the dash without moving allows you to gain invincibility while staying in place. This can also be used for recovering from mistakes.
I believe the Bruiser is a class that can provide the highest DPS in a party in multiplayer while also having extremely reliable defensive capabilities.

[Quentcat]

She's like always out of range. let's take one of the dragon the one that cut the screen in half you're suposed to like to nothing half the time because you're just too high (or too low depending of your half) ?
I mean yeah on boss like the red dragon before the zone boss she can do damages since she's always in range but that's like less than half the fights. (i can agree to go to half)

If her main strengh is having imunes so she can solo when ally die she's just a worst heavyblade

So my point is since she's very often out of range at least make it so when she is: it count (or/and give her stuff hitting verticaly)
I very much think she's under dps wise when not against a target dummy (obviously she can be above with items ... like everybody else)

[Thalq]

Abyss Rage (emerald s3) is probably the most broken skill in the game

[Quentcat]

Yeah it's strong but it take 60% of the fights doing nothing before it go online (except for zone bosses) and the 40% time left isn't enough to give back what was lost

[Thalq]

Originally posted by Quentcat:

Yeah it's strong but it take 60% of the fights doing nothing before it go online (except for zone bosses)

22s is not much (it's faster than the first hourglass tick) and you make up for the lost dps in a few seconds of buff uptime, especially with good items.
As if being good wasn't enough it's also very self-sufficient when most classes are very item-reliant to actually pop off.

[オバケイドロマスター]

I disagree with the notion that she can't attack enemies.
The range of her primary attack is long, and the vertical range is actually quite good. I'd like you to test the range where attacks hit on a dummy.

Considering that the majority of her damage comes from her primary and special attacks, not being able to attack enemies is often just a matter of positioning.
Of course, some enemies can indeed be difficult to attack. However, such enemies are rare, and this issue is not specific to her but common to all other melee classes.
Moreover, she can attack mid-bosses and area bosses, which are crucial in the game's combat, without any problems, so I don't think it's a significant drawback.

Furthermore, despite already possessing excellent defensive capabilities, high DPS, and the ability to attack while moving, if her attack range were to be increased further, she would undoubtedly become an OP class.
In fact, I consistently output the highest DPS in the party in most battles, so if you find yourself hardly attacking bosses, there's a very high chance that your skill rotation is incorrect.

[scram]

As someone who's not very good at this game, I'd have to say that Bruiser is one of the easier classes to pick up. I've been able to do consistently high DPS thanks to her fairly simple but hard hitting rotation, which lets me focus on dodging while trying to stick to my targets as much as possible (without even counting her two uses of defensive to save me from inevitable skill issues). I've ran with the primary focus build a lot as she doesn't need items that much to enable it, but I've been able to do some runs with multiple buff items and that worked well, and also a funny one with proc items and lots of secondary spam. She's overall really fun and I think she's fine where she is, if not a little OP.

[MEATSHED]

I do find it funny to complain that quick jab has poor horizontal range while heavyblade can hit everything when quick jab has longer horizontal range than full moon.

[Quentcat]

Originally posted by Thalq:

22s is not much (it's faster than the first hourglass tick) and you make up for the lost dps in a few seconds of buff uptime, especially with good items.

How do you get that i'm pretty sure it's 25s and at this point there is only 15 or so seconde of the fight left

And yeah the primary have a long range but are you people seriously doing raw primaries without rage or charges ? because 170 damage every 1.6 suck (and you get slowed)

Originally posted by MEATSHED:

I do find it funny to complain that quick jab has poor horizontal range while heavyblade can hit everything when quick jab has longer horizontal range than full moon.

I don't complain about horizontal range. it's fair to ask meles to be ... well in mele but with full moon you can be in many different place and still hit. way less places you can be with jab
It's like mele archer but at least archer have her special when she's not aligned

But well if this many people think she's fine i guess i'll shut up

[Thalq]

Originally posted by Quentcat:

Originally posted by Thalq:

22s is not much (it's faster than the first hourglass tick) and you make up for the lost dps in a few seconds of buff uptime, especially with good items.

How do you get that i'm pretty sure it's 25s and at this point there is only 15 or so seconde of the fight left

And yeah the primary have a long range but are you people seriously doing raw primaries without rage or charges ? because 170 damage every 1.6 suck (and you get slowed)

The cd is 25 but the initial cd when starting a fight doesn't seem to be exactly that from what I remember (maybe it counts during the pre-fight transition?).
As for the effect itself, keep in mind abyss rage applies a +40% dmg multiplier on top of capping s1 gcd to 0.8s. Add to that the movespeed bonus (which is arguably the best part of the buff, MS is way too important in this game) and the ability to still hit a few charges in there from your very spammy s4...
I don't think a lot of classes can do 298DPS raw with only one skill mod while also being as unkillable and mobile as an assassin and on top of that, peak unga (just hold s1 lol) which allows you to just focus on the fight and do less mistakes.
And now factor in items and you get a class that does almost the same dps as any other with roughly the same loadout value before the buff, which then becomes completely stupid afterwards, especially with sapphire/ruby s1.
With semi-relevant items you can easily hit extremely high DPS, and if you get really good ones you can end up with 1k2+ DPS not counting party buffs.
As for fight duration, that's the thing, the fights that actually matter (area bosses) give you more than enough time to pop off, and it's not like you need a lot of time to compensate for the damage loss anyway.

[Xersin]

Bruiser can get pretty broken if you're lucky with upgrades. I had a build where my Berserk lasted longer than my CD, and my Primary did stupid amounts of damage, so I didn't even need my Secondary. I then got the upgrade for my Defensive to give it 4 stacks, and the item to give you random buffs for 5 seconds when you use your Defensive. I had SO much Super...

[⇜SOVEREIGN⇝]

Bruiser is like hands down the best DPS focused class in the game right now.

She doesn't have issues with hitting enemies, I've solo'd hard with her many times, and I've done hard in a full party of 4 with her many times, and I'm currently progging Lunar with myself and one other friend and I'm usually top DPS with Brusier.

The vertical reach of her primary, you know, the skill you spam on her the majority of the time, is deceptively large (it's seriously like half the vertical height of the screen) and the horizontal range is like 80% of the screen.

If you're having issues with her, that isn't really on the fault of the class, she's perfectly fine where she is, you could even argue that she's entirely too good where she is right now.

Also, she has probably the best mobility in the game ontop of ALL that.

She doesn't really have any of the issues the others have at a base, she's fast, hits hard, has great range and defensive utility along with the easiest rotation and playstyle in the game right now.

Don't worry about charges on her, she quite literally doesn't need them at all lmao.

[Chew]

Bruiser literally can hit 100% invuln uptime with Sapphire Defensive since the 4s cooldown means you can get it to 1s very easily, allowing you to literally brute-force the an entire run. Its not even hard to set up either, you can do it with literally just 1 single item, or several 2 item combinations.

Even if you can't get Kappa Shield on a run with Sapphire Defensive or any of the item combos, just having a Pajama Hat with Sapphire is already ridiculous. Even more hilarious because doing a bit of math, its a common enough occurrence that you could literally feasible use it if you wanted to just brute force a hard/lunar clear solo or with party.

I had one Hard mode run with Pajama Hat, Blacksteel Buckler, and Storm Petticoat, meaning I literally always had Charge and Counter while doing 250 damage every second second and being completely immune to damage.

And sure having a very easy setup that lets you ignore all damage and mechanics and focus entirely on uptime is great sure, but also there's so many ways to get perfect Fury uptime or just do insane amounts of damage in short bursts frankly buffing the character just seems comical