Spread and stack markers

[Hex: Magnet]

please do not put important mechanics on dead allies as it actually kills runs especially on harder difficulties

Edit: Right! So since this discussion is getting out of hand Mino has stated that this is in fact intended as in their words there's nothing going on with mechanics if people are dead and it is "funnier" this way. So it likely won't be getting a change.

[Laz]

Originally posted by MechaMarshmallow:

Originally posted by Cecire:

Edit: Also as an aside, it seems rather unchartiable to mention that corpses cause 'unsolvable' situations that rez's fix but meanwhile ignore that every class gets an iframe defensive in a way XIV doesn't get. Not only do they all get an iframe defensive, but every mechanic is solvable if everyone is alive except for the final boss's gimmick countdown attack, so if someone dying is causing an unsolvable mechanic why not save your defensive for that situation?

I think this is an important point for people to remember. You do have a way to avoid the unavoidable mechanics if you save your defensive as soon as you see someone die.

There are a couple of fights where having a dead party member can cause you can be hit with multiple unavoidable hits in the span of 10 seconds which I do think may warrant a change, since for many classes this cannot be iframed. But by and large you should always have the tools to avoid it.

Yeah i think your pretty spot on. Like if your in a bad spot or something, sure you can iframe to avoid it if your smart. But like you said, some fights thats not an option.

Tasha is a big one where she has 2 people with top/down cleaves. You can frame the first but the second is delayed enough that for MOST classes, your Iframe isnt off CD yet. Resulting in a forced hit.

Maybe Corpses can have mechanics but i think atleast having a way to either
A) get someone back up quicker like ff14 has.
or
B) a super small safe spot still or maybe a way to tell what the corpse is getting atleast

its not liker 14 where you can see a dead dps and be like "♥♥♥♥ their stack is going random" and prepare yourself

all of these no one knows what they have TILL they have it. So even if lets say you can save it. (Tasha example again with two people having half room cleaves) its way more difficult to adjust or preplan around it.

[MechaMarshmallow]

Originally posted by Laz:

Maybe Corpses can have mechanics but i think atleast having a way to either
A) get someone back up quicker like ff14 has.
or
B) a super small safe spot still or maybe a way to tell what the corpse is getting atleast

I think the most elegant solution to this issue, if it's something Mino sees as an issue to be fixed rather than an intended punishments on these fights, would be to have the mechanics which create layered unavoidable damage situations specifically prioritise living players.

The patterns that hit too often for iframing are very few in number and could probably be given that behaviour. On normal mode the only patterns that come to mind are the stack marker on the fire dragon with the rotating beam (if it selects a dead player multiple times in a row), the Tasha cleaves, and the color matching markers where players must stack with each other as well as the marker.

On Hard and Lunar I think having unavoidable damage for player deaths is probably a lot more common but also less of an issue because they're meant to be much more punishing fights.

Personally, I enjoy having mechanics go on living players more than dead players simply because it's more fun to me to play the mechanics rather than iframe something. But also this is like, the most minor of minor issues in a great game, so I'm approaching it as more of a thought exercise than feeling this is truly an issue that needs a fix.

[Xersin]

Originally posted by Laz:

Originally posted by Xersin:

All I'm seeing in here is "This game isn't as forgiving as XIV! This is bad design!"

Frankly, seeing as how XIV has spent several expansions catering to actual children, I'm glad that a roguelike of all things actually has the balls to give the game some teeth, even on Normal mode. There's Cute difficulty for a reason if you find Normal too hard.

Would love to hear how ff14 caters to children when it comes to raiding and end game high difficulty fights.

Lets see we have Coil of bahamut
were worlds first was finally managed after 65 days post release for Turn 5

Or turn 9 which took 19 days

turn 13 (Final one) 5 days


Oh but thats just ARR so lets look at the later expansions where they must of started making them easier

Oh nope nm

Alexander 4s took 34 days for the worlds first, a full ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ month +

A8s Took 17 days, so little over 2 weeks

And A12s took 50 hours

oh hmm 04S (stormbloods raid) took 16 hours

08s took 18


012s took 41 hours

And for those not in the known. A raid boss on average has a insta wipe engrage timer at around 12 minutes and 30 seconds to 14 min max.

meaning on average your about 4 runs a hour.

Now ah yes lets see

Ultimate bahamut was 11 days

ultimate weapon ultimate was 5 days

hmm yes, im sure people playing the game for years and working non stop at these must just brain damaged since a child can do them as you said

Ah wait, Im guessing you mean crafting right? Where people spend millions of gil to max their gear out to have a chance to make current end game HQ and meet the stat requirements, or where 99% of crafters often resort to making a macro for their crafts to save sanity and time.

And usually need BIS to be able to make current top end crafting gear.


Or maybe were talking about the 32 person raids that a wipe kicks you out of the dungeon and so does deaths like (forgot the name of it but the one from shadow bringers )

or maybe the 200 floor, 100 floor and 100 floor deep dungeons were a wipe at ANY point makes you start at the very very start and later floors go by the rule of "you get hit you die"


even current day savage thats beaten on day one, tends to take hours on end of attempt after attempts before the first clear happens, most of which time the dps check is tight enough that more then a death or 3 results in a wipe due to enrage.

along with mechanics that require every single player to due their job without failure or result in a wipe.

Ah, yes. Having a teeny tiny selection of fights that make the players use their brains totally counters the entire rest of the game being a snoozefest with DPS rotations so simple, a literal toddler can follow them like they're a Fisher Price pop up toy.

And people here are whining about NORMAL being too hard, so actually use a comparison to XIV, in using a hard mode trial, or a dungeon, which takes absolutely zero brain power.

I'm sorry I offended the Yoshi P defense force, but go take that frustration out on something that matters, rather than defending design decisions that even the Devs have acknowledged have gone too far.

[zero]

i cant believe people are trying to bring their elitism into the rabbit game already