No Twin Snakes ?

[Serius_Sim]

Reasons why and how MGS:Twin Snakes is the definitive and superior version of the MGS1 story :

And why it should get included in the PC collection

• Better graphics/audio - even nowadays TS still look fine, while MGS1 on ps1 is a low-poly pixelated fest, potentialy detering newcomers from getting into the serie. That is also true for music and voice acting which are of much higher quality in TS.
  
  
• Better gameplay - by bringing in MGS2's refined gameplay the player gets much more freedom in every situation, while still being fully optional. People seem to forget how incredibly easy MGS1 already was, even with the original basic and restrictive gameplay.
  
  
• Better "Metal gear vibe" : after MGS1 which was 99% serious and 1% silly, games from the serie settled on a perfect ratio of 85% serious and 15% silly, in that sense TS is much more representative of the rest of the serie. It is also pretty naive to believe Kojima had no input or control on narration, especially cutscenes : the few "silly" TS moments most likely originate from this creative input.
  
  
• Many MGS fans didn't get the chance to try this awesome remake, because they already had a PS2 and couldnt justify purchasing a Gamecube for a single game. As a result including TS in the PC collection will hugely boost sales, as it's a piece of content most fans have missed and will be glad to experience by themselves.
  
  
• The community is demanding it, as demonstrated by this very thread being the most commented upon, and by far. The second most commented topic of these forums is also a TS appreciation thread, that shows how emotionally invested the community is in this game.

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Originally posted by Pierce Dalton:

But why would you approve something you weren't happy with?

If you ask this question instead in proving your point then you've proved my point:

If Kojima was happy or not about the final product, that's what you need to prove to counter his argument.

So prove that Kojima was happy with the final product, if you can't then he is correct and you are wrong, it's that simple.

Well, the proof that Kojima was happy with Twin Snakes is right here:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNDZiZjFkNTQtZjEyYS00NWMxLWFkMGYtNzY3NTZhZmEwYjJiXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjcyNzkwMTc@._V1_.jpg

Why would he put his name in the cover of the game if he was unhappy with it? That wouldn't make much sense.

[KaosReigns]

Originally posted by Pierce Dalton:

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

If you ask this question instead in proving your point then you've proved my point:

If Kojima was happy or not about the final product, that's what you need to prove to counter his argument.

So prove that Kojima was happy with the final product, if you can't then he is correct and you are wrong, it's that simple.

Well, the proof that Kojima was happy with Twin Snakes is right here:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNDZiZjFkNTQtZjEyYS00NWMxLWFkMGYtNzY3NTZhZmEwYjJiXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjcyNzkwMTc@._V1_.jpg

Why would he put his name in the cover of the game if he was unhappy with it? That wouldn't make much sense.

He was under contract by that point... not that you will understand what contracts are for... you didnt even know the approval process....

Dude, im being 100% serious, go learn about what you are trying to talk about first...

This is in no way meant to be offensive, but you have to be like 14 years old. There is no other possible explanation for why you dont seem to understand what we are saying.

So I will give you credit, and simply say you are young, and dont actually know any better, but think you do.

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by KaosReigns:

Originally posted by Pierce Dalton:

Well, how do you know that the majority of the community hates Twin Snakes? Once again, how many Metal Gear fans have you interviewed? I think it's important to backup our claims, otherwise they're mere assumptions.

DUE TO SALES!!!!!!!

Like oh my freaking god in christ almighty!!!

Now, as normal, the response is going to be somerhing like "Oh, thats cuz it was only on gamecube" and we repeat the freaking cycle again... Like stop, JUST STOP!

We have used metrics, we have used economics, we have tried basic reasoning, we have tried every possible way to explain this to you, and you still dont get it...

"Hi, im Pierce, 2+2=5"
No Pierce, 2+2=4, here is the proof
"Na, its still 5, regardless of anything you ever say"

Originally posted by Pierce Dalton:

But why would you approve something you weren't happy with?

The approval comes prior to creation... serious dude... can you please go read up on how this process works before you come to a forum and spew nonsense.

If they attempted to create it prior to approval, they would have been issued a cease and desist... Like cmon dude, try harder.

If you want proof, go tell Square Enix you are going to make a Final Fantasy game without their consent, let me know the outcome.

Due to sales? Well, that was predictable. You're aware that sales stats do not include illegal copies of Twin Snakes, right? But more importantly, you know that the majority of Metal Gear fans never had a Gamecube, right? I'm sorry but this argument doesn't work and it's easy to demonstrate why:

I like Twin Snakes but I didn't buy it. Why? Because I never had a Gamecube.

I could buy it now from ebay and emulate it, but I'm not going to pay $100 for a 19yo game. And that's why people are asking for a PC port of Twin Snakes, people want to play it but the current cost to do so is absurd.

About "the approval comes prior to creation", you're confusing two kinds of approval:

1. Initial approval to do something

2. Approval in the sense of "is this good enough or does it need improvement?"

Evidently, I'm referring to the latter. Kojima and Konami were actively following the development of Twin Snakes, giving their input about it. If you had done some research then you would have found this interview: https://www.ign.com/articles/2003/09/06/interview-denis-dyack-on-the-twin-snakes

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by KaosReigns:

Originally posted by Pierce Dalton:

The same applies if they include Twin Snakes in Vol. 2 or any other volume, you don't have to buy all games if they do it just like Vol. 1. In fact, some people are purchasing only MGS3 because they already have MGS and MGS2 on GOG, and once patched those are the superior versions of these games (on PC, that is).

Okay, im just going to assume you are trolling now, because its too hard to keep myself from saying how I truly feel about your level of intelligence.

I and others, have on numerous occasions, explained exactly why this wouldnt be included.... You cant even grasp THAT, let alone trying to explain how this concept wouldnt apply at all the way you are using it... I will try ONE MORE TIME

Dev Team = 10
Hours per day = 8
Days for completion = 365
Wage = 29.00
----------------------
875,800$

1 Copy of MGS Collection = 26.99

875,800/26.99 = 31,375

In order for Konami to BREAK EVEN, they would need to sell 31,375 copies of the game.

Now, here is the rub, that is ONLY for TS, not the other titles. So, same numbers for MGS, needs to sell 61,750 copies, MGS2? Well sir, thats another 31 thousand.

So, with 3 titles, using all the same numbers, you end up with 94,123 copies sold to BREAK EVEN.

Do you get it yet why TS is simply not worth their time to invest into? Seriously? They are already likely to lose money on this collection as it is, let alone the extra time need to port another game.

Now, honestly, do I think you will actually get it and accept it this time? Nope, but attempts were made.

Sidenote - Now I know you are simply full of crap. MGS 3 is the same price as the entire collection. There is no way people would buy MGS 3 on its own...

?

MGS3 can be purchased separately here, for $20:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2131650/METAL_GEAR_SOLID_3_Snake_Eater__Master_Collection_Version/

Also, didn't you say that including Twin Snakes as a dlc is fine?

Originally posted by KaosReigns:

Originally posted by Drake:

+1 Would love to play Twin Snakes now after playing the original. Konami, please include Twin Snakes as future DLC! :lunar2019piginablanket:

This is fine. TTS as a DLC package, no complaints, then its upto each person who pays for it. Im not against this, but we are right back to it wont happen, because Konami would literally lose money doing it.

This would also show Pierce its not about the platform, its about the game, so im all for TSS DLC 100%.

They could always just port it as is and do some minor configuring, but then you get the crowd of "Its way better on emulation" so Konami would still lose sales.

From a purely economic view, this is just a dumb decision that will 100% lose money. Its the exact same reason we will never see a Secret of Evermore on PC...

But now you're talking about the cost of porting Twin Snakes, which is intriguing. Do you think that porting it to be a dlc would cost less?

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Originally posted by Pierce Dalton:

Well, the proof that Kojima was happy with Twin Snakes is right here:

Why would he put his name in the cover of the game if he was unhappy with it? That wouldn't make much sense.

That's doesn't prove if he was happy or not with the final product, in the end you are only assuming things.

I've even found something that counter your opinion:

https://www.ruetir.com/2023/02/kojima-expresses-his-regret-by-acknowledging-that-assassins-creed-achieved-a-dream-he-had-for-metal-gear-since-in-the-ubisoft-game-you-could-go-anywhere-ruetir-com/

Well, you may have posted the wrong link because this article (which I've read before) doesn't mention Twin Snakes a single time. The only thing this proves is that Kojima wanted to make an open world game (which he did with MGSV). Besides, Twin Snakes is a remake, making it open world wouldn't make any sense.

[KaosReigns]

Originally posted by Pierce Dalton:

Due to sales? Well, that was predictable. You're aware that sales stats do not include illegal copies of Twin Snakes, right?

..... This sentence sums up the entirety of the conversation ive had with you... I cant even begin to wrap my head around the mental gymnastics you went through to pull this kind of thought process out...

Why would sales stats include something that wasnt sold? ..... I am so done with you...

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by KaosReigns:

Originally posted by Pierce Dalton:

Due to sales? Well, that was predictable. You're aware that sales stats do not include illegal copies of Twin Snakes, right?

..... This sentence sums up the entirety of the conversation ive had with you... I cant even begin to wrap my head around the mental gymnastics you went through to pull this kind of thought process out...

Why would sales stats include something that wasnt sold? ..... I am so done with you...

Well, that was expected after I said that I like Twin Snakes but didn't buy the game.

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Originally posted by KaosReigns:

..... This sentence sums up the entirety of the conversation ive had with you... I cant even begin to wrap my head around the mental gymnastics you went through to pull this kind of thought process out...

Why would sales stats include something that wasnt sold? ..... I am so done with you...

Because that's all he do: Deflect.

Like no matter the facts this is how he'll go:

- MGS TTS flopped hard: "But ! But, but it's because it was on gamecube and that didn't sell well so no it didn't flopped the gamecube flopped !", meanwhile the best sold game is Super Smash Bros Melle, it sold 7.41 million unit. So the fact remain: MGS TTS didn't sell well.

- Fans hated it: They already got the original, better soundtrack, better gameplay due to the map being made for it, better cutscenes, the only thing TTS got is better graphism but only the younger generation care about that. This is proved because a hardcore fan will buy the game regardless if they own the console or not, I own a copy of MGS4 in mint condition and I don't own a PS3, only years later I got to play it with a friend that owned both, even back in the days we knew the price for old consoles would drop. But he'll say "No that's wrong I saw 10 people on a youtube video saying that they like the game so the majority of people agree", even this topic is like that, we are like less than 20 people here.

- Kojima got regrets about the series: "No kojima doesn't regret it, I know better than him !"

In the end if someone doesn't own the game on the forum they are talking to you should never take them seriously, because If the forum is open then nothing prevent a troll to bait users into non-constructive arguments, engage in fights and such, that's why preventing people who don't own the game to post would clean the forums of this collection pretty quickly.

Well, but why do you keep replying to people that do not own the game if you think they're just trolling? Also, how do you know they do not own the game if the Master Collection was released on consoles too?

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Originally posted by Pierce Dalton:

Well, you may have posted the wrong link because this article (which I've read before) doesn't mention Twin Snakes a single time. The only thing this proves is that Kojima wanted to make an open world game (which he did with MGSV). Besides, Twin Snakes is a remake, making it open world wouldn't make any sense.

So you believe MGS TTS isn't part of the metal gear franchise, hence why it have no place in this collection.

Checkmate.

Huh? What makes you think I believe that? Sorry but I think you're replying to the wrong post, because I never said or implied anything like that.

[Doktor Mandrake]

Might have to check out twin snakes

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by randomprinnyx9:

Originally posted by Pierce Dalton:

Well, but why do you keep replying to people that do not own the game if you think they're just trolling? Also, how do you know they do not own the game if the Master Collection was released on consoles too?

You're doing what he said in the first line lol.

Well, I suppose you mean the act of trolling? I don't think suggesting a game (Twin Snakes) to be included in the Master Collection can be classified as that.

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Originally posted by randomprinnyx9:

You're doing what he said in the first line lol.

That's right, well it's even worse since he comment 3 times rather than bundle the quotes and answers but that's to try and make the topic have more comments, doesn't matter because even if it reach 600 comments it will be like he and OP made half the comments and Konami still won't care.

So yeah it's as I expected.

Well, I guess some people do that (replying to each post individually) for a good reason: if you quote and reply to various posts in a single, unique post, then those that want to comment about a specific part of it have to remove all the rest.

Anyway, you're saying that Twin Snakes shouldn't be included in the Master Collection because it is a bad game, but you consider MGS2 a bad game too. Needless to say, MGS2 is in the Master Collection. So "because game bad" doesn't seem to be a good reason to exclude it, right?

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by randomprinnyx9:

Originally posted by Pierce Dalton:

Well, I suppose you mean the act of trolling? I don't think suggesting a game (Twin Snakes) to be included in the Master Collection can be classified as that.

Well you just admitted it right now, so you don't care about twin snakes you use it to troll.

Maybe "playing dumb" can fool some moderators but that won't fool people who do read the topic.

In the end the twin snake is not a good game hence why it's not in volume 1, end of the story. Even Hideo Kojima didn't put it in the HD collection, that's another answer to Hideo Kojima not being happy about twin snake otherwise he would have put it in the collection.

But why would someone ask for Twin Snakes to be included in the Master Collection if they don't care about it?

About the HD Collection, people have been asking for Twin Snakes since its release so that's just another reason to finally make it available on modern platforms.

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Originally posted by randomprinnyx9:

Well you just admitted it right now, so you don't care about twin snakes you use it to troll.

Maybe "playing dumb" can fool some moderators but that won't fool people who do read the topic.

In the end the twin snake is not a good game hence why it's not in volume 1, end of the story. Even Hideo Kojima didn't put it in the HD collection, that's another answer to Hideo Kojima not being happy about twin snake otherwise he would have put it in the collection.

That's actualy a good point, he still deflect it since you've said Kojima is not happy about TTS so he didn't put it in the HD collection and he says "But people wanted it" so yeah at this point it's better to not feed the troll and instead focus on improving this topic.

I didn't think about it but kojima not adding TSS in the HD collection prove that he really didn't like the final product

Well, there's something that you forgot to consider: Kojima didn't like Snake's Revenge, but this game is in the Master Collection Vol. 1.

At the end of the day, it's not like his opinion really matters. Didn't Konami fire him or something? I guess he's not even at Konami anymore.

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by randomprinnyx9:

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

That's actualy a good point, he still deflect it since you've said Kojima is not happy about TTS so he didn't put it in the HD collection and he says "But people wanted it" so yeah at this point it's better to not feed the troll and instead focus on improving this topic.

I didn't think about it but kojima not adding TSS in the HD collection prove that he really didn't like the final product, that also prove MGS1 is superior to it.

Metal gear solid HD collection sold 1,210,000 units.

I didn't know the numbers but someone did mention units sales and such for twin snake and Metal gear solid 5.

Anyway since there seem to be no moderators I'll just not bother, in the end we had our fun and twin snake won't be added in this collection

Well, in that case those that want to play Twin Snakes will buy it from ebay, which represents a loss to Konami.