People don't want game preservation....or do they ?

[randomprinnyx9]

I don't own the games because I'm waiting for a sale but I still do some research because you know, reviews and youtubers known for clickbaits aren't a reliable sources of informations, especialy reviews under 2 hours since steam have nothing to prevent reviewbombing.

Then youtube suggested me this video that dropped some hours ago and damn he do make some good points, not just on this collection or just MGS1, so even if you don't intend to buy this collection (no idea why you would be here) watch the video and let's talk about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVkO70xYcxs

The video mention Vagrant Story and Koudelka too, but most important how some people could have booted the english version and believed that MGS1 was crap because it run slower, It's just in PAL, I know some Europeeans who do complain when they don't have the option to play in PAL, like check Sonic 1 in PAL and see that it's the childhood of most Europeeans.

I know that the collection have multiple versions of MGS 1 and I find that neat.

The video mention people not reading nor doing their own research and they prove it, like MGS1 in this collection is MGS1, Imagine buying a PS1 game and getting a PS1 game.

Share your opinion on this wide topic.

[Pierce Dalton]

Thanks for posting it, the comment section is very interesting.

[Deathraven13]

For some reason I couldn't comment.... I'll copy paste my answer:

After watching the video I do see some good point, the collection being on multiple help in that way even if IMO I think what Konami did is just what we needed, the collection is on multiple devices and Konami is working on the collection.

Didn't think I'll hear about Vagrant Story in 2023 but if I could buy it on steam I would, even Koudlka (Didn't get past CD2 I think), I'd buy a remaster/remake of these, Konami is doing an MGS3 remake, even Kage/Blue shadow/Shadow of the ninja get a remake, that's pretty cool TBH I don't see why they shouldn't re-release good games, I'm sure people can come up with more exemples like secret of mana, or recently Mario RPG.

The negative reviews sums up the reviewbombing, it's a funny part.

One thing It opened my eyes on is that some people said duckstation emulate MGS1 better than this version (as the video mentionned people didn't read what the collection was about, some believed it was a remastered collection lol) but:

1. I doubt Konami can sell a version of MGS1 emulated on duckstation because Konami don't own the right to it, so they would be selling the emulator.

2. The small amount of people that call Konami lazy would still call them lazy because they sell the games + duckstation.

I like the trend of porting old games, I got rhapsody 1 & 2 recently, and I hope in the futur that Konami re-release some other good MGS games, like MGS4, MG Acid 1 & 2, MGS: PW and MG portable.

I mean I bought VOL1 so I'm pretty credible on supporting the Metal Gear franchise, I do like retro games, I still play Vagrant Story (randomizers) and C&C to this day, I'd like the OG RE2 & 3 on steam too.

Oh I also want MG Ghost Babel, give me all the good Metal Gear games Konami don't keep me waiting I want to play MGS:PW. :3

[Cyber Moduled]

I'll agree with the overall sentiment that people expecting some kind of remake or big budget remaster of MGS1 are dumb, but this port or attempt to "preserve the game as originally intended" is still incredibly subpar regardless.

If the argument is purely visuals for "game preservation" this version already failed at that the moment M2 decided to slather their ugly bilinear filter that makes the game look like it's smeared in vaseline compared to original hardware output. Apparently it's just too much work to let people turn off something like that to make it look more like the original as well because ??? Addled with the audio and save game issues people had day one, it already failed to even be a good preservation attempt.

Also there's an argument to be had that you can both offer a way to preserve the original look of the game while giving the option for visual enhancements for people who want it WITHOUT changing how the game plays or mechanically works. Look no further than the Command and Conquer remaster back in 2020. Remastered visuals, remastered OST, AI-upscaled FMV cutscenes for two games that are even older than MGS1. Yet those features are optional and the game virtually plays the same as the original DOS versions (for better or worse) because the devs for that project did not add a lot of the QoL seen from future games in the series for the sake of authenticity. All for the same price of $20 as this single game with far more effort put into the entire thing for games in a genre that people barley play anymore and an IP that is nowhere near as beloved as MGS.

Konami are just lazy. I don't think the guy's a shill, but short sighted because thinking some random negative reviews on the Steam reviews who were expecting something else is representative of people as a whole being ignorant and not just the fact the port is mediocre and not worth even the fairly low price of $20. Those negative reviews would've been better covered up by now if people had positive things to say about this beyond just shrugging their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ shoulders in the most apathetic, "Yeah, this exists, I guess," sentiment possible.

[Deathraven13]

Originally posted by Cyber Moduled:

[...]Also there's an argument to be had that you can both offer a way to preserve the original look of the game while giving the option for visual enhancements for people who want it WITHOUT changing how the game plays or mechanically works. Look no further than the Command and Conquer remaster back in 2020. Remastered visuals, remastered OST, AI-upscaled FMV cutscenes for two games that are even older than MGS1. Yet those features are optional and the game virtually plays the same as the original DOS versions (for better or worse) because the devs for that project did not add a lot of the QoL seen from future games in the series for the sake of authenticity. All for the same price of $20 as this single game with far more effort put into the entire thing for games in a genre that people barley play anymore and an IP that is nowhere near as beloved as MGS.[...]

The thing is this is not a remastered collection so it make sense that they didn't remaster it because next year we will get a remaster: MGS DELTA, what would be the buy in buying an MGS1 "DELTA" if you could have the Remastered version for 20$ ?

Then we'll have to take into account that no matter how good Konami will try they'll always get a boycott because they have fired kojima, they have fixed the saving issue and that still doesn't please some people apparently, yet they could have just done no update and fixed nothing, but they still get called lazy, it's like if no matter how hard you try your work is called bad so what happen is that you won't go 200% to please people that don't support you.

Honestly I don't understand the complaint in MGS1, for me the audio is fine and the graphics looks how it would seem on a PS1 for me, I know that emulators tend to make graphism better so I think that's the issue: People forgot how PS1 games looked like back then and it's hard to replicate because CRT filters may not be accurate, you have some people still debating on that subjects.

[CybernetikFrozone]

The point is that more is possible, so we should expect more,
We should e.g. B. expect a Gog version of the Master Collection, we should expect something more, because companies have money and can make more, I'm sorry that people are so weak and buy something like that, but people could be stronger.
I think it's also because a lot of people don't know what's possible. G-Darius HD is a collection

G-Darius HD features 5 versions of G-Darius: arcade-perfect ports of G-Darius and G-Darius Ver.2 and an HD version of each, along with the console port of G-Darius, coupled with a Steam-exclusive widescreen bonus mode!

Beginner fashion
Rapid fire button
Game speed adjustments
Enemy endurance adjustments
Player shield capacity adjustments
Mid-bosses added to some zones
Boss timer & timer bonus system
New and adjusted boss attack patterns
Fight any or all of the 30 bosses in VS BOSS mode!
View the opening and endings from the options menu.
Japanese and EU version

Why should I eat ♥♥♥♥ when I can have something like this?!

[Third Party Central]

the issue with this collection is that the ports are straight up much worse than their console counterparts.

for example with MGS1, the audio is muffled and some audio effects are way off, like the Chaff Grenade sound is weird, it has some weird reverb.
in the basement you got this weird cymbal constantly drumming into your right ear, the analog stick only does 8 sides and has a weird delay to it (not present on D-Pad)

on MGS2 even after patches, the game plays in 720p, not 1080p that they advertised.
the metal grating still have a really high pitched sound, on PS4 before the equiping and unequiping also had an extremely high pitched sound.

this is just a lazy port, in todays age with no resolution options for PC is unacceptable, period, you can mod the higher resolutions in, but the issue with that is that it breaks the UI and even some cutscenes, again should not be acceptable.

for MGS1 for example, you can see how easily duckstation upscales MGS4 to 4k widescreen, why isn't this a thing, atleast make the game look better, because on the "master" collection the game looks worse than it does on the PS1 somehow.

the simple fact of this remaster is that it's an extremely lazy port, Konami was already on thin ice to begin with, with this they could quite easily get a better reputation again, by going above and beyond player expectations, like for example some remapping function, but instead we got a barebones port that even broke some unbroken things.

[metal_hamster]

Originally posted by Third Party Central:

the issue with this collection is that the ports are straight up much worse than their console counterparts.

for example with MGS1, the audio is muffled and some audio effects are way off, like the Chaff Grenade sound is weird, it has some weird reverb.
in the basement you got this weird cymbal constantly drumming into your right ear, the analog stick only does 8 sides and has a weird delay to it (not present on D-Pad)

This is interesting. I didn't have any sort of audio issue. That and the stick works how it always did.

[Cyber Moduled]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Originally posted by Cyber Moduled:

[...]Also there's an argument to be had that you can both offer a way to preserve the original look of the game while giving the option for visual enhancements for people who want it WITHOUT changing how the game plays or mechanically works. Look no further than the Command and Conquer remaster back in 2020. Remastered visuals, remastered OST, AI-upscaled FMV cutscenes for two games that are even older than MGS1. Yet those features are optional and the game virtually plays the same as the original DOS versions (for better or worse) because the devs for that project did not add a lot of the QoL seen from future games in the series for the sake of authenticity. All for the same price of $20 as this single game with far more effort put into the entire thing for games in a genre that people barley play anymore and an IP that is nowhere near as beloved as MGS.[...]

The thing is this is not a remastered collection so it make sense that they didn't remaster it because next year we will get a remaster: MGS DELTA, what would be the buy in buying an MGS1 "DELTA" if you could have the Remastered version for 20$ ?

Then we'll have to take into account that no matter how good Konami will try they'll always get a boycott because they have fired kojima, they have fixed the saving issue and that still doesn't please some people apparently, yet they could have just done no update and fixed nothing, but they still get called lazy, it's like if no matter how hard you try your work is called bad so what happen is that you won't go 200% to please people that don't support you.

Honestly I don't understand the complaint in MGS1, for me the audio is fine and the graphics looks how it would seem on a PS1 for me, I know that emulators tend to make graphism better so I think that's the issue: People forgot how PS1 games looked like back then and it's hard to replicate because CRT filters may not be accurate, you have some people still debating on that subjects.

My point of bringing up C&C remaster is that there's a way to have their cake and eat it too if they put in even the slightest effort. Them treating this as "preservation" is less about any genuine preservation attempts and more likely an excuse for Konami to not put in a lot of time and resources on this collection in the first place because it's easy money.

Also yes, they are lazy for having a bug around a feature as fundamental as SAVING THE GAME in there on launch at all. Great, they're fixing bugs that was never in the original and only added from their lack of playtesting. Bravo, take my $20.

I don't have some kind of raging hate boner for Konami, but considering M2's other remaster/emulation ports that have a lot more polish to them, they clearly did not give them the proper time or budget to do something beyond a minimum viable product (something that long standing players on PC are probably not going to accept when Duckstation has been the end all, be all, can even run on mobile devices and Raspberry Pi's emulation for PS1 titles for years now).

If YOU'RE happy with it, good for you, but the numerous video comparisons and technical issues people have reported about these versions indicated they didn't do a good job of preservation beyond basic functionality. Just because you think it looks and sounds the same as it does from memory, doesn't mean it really does.

[Lucas NOT the Pope]

I think the backlash to this response is an instinct that people have to simply crap on anything Konami does, and don't get me wrong, they're right to be mad at them. They fired Kojima and then threw the franchise into the ground with Survive, they mishandled the production of all Silent Hill games after 4, and turned them into ♥♥♥♥♥♥ pachinko machines. I am very sceptical, if slightly pessimistic about the remake, and it is a bummer that Kojima will not be getting any of the profit that comes from this collection, but at the end of the day, all people want here is to play good games. I believe that old games ABSOLUTEY have to be preserved, and rereleases on PC like this are a step in the right direction for that.

Yes, you could emulate them, and they're probably going to give you far better results, but few people seem to realize that emulators can cause problems that weren't in the original games that are incredibly hard to fix (trust me, I have first hand experience with this) and that it's just more efficient and less risky to buy games on legitimate hardware, with added mods and enhancements if they feel like taking the risk. I have recommended emulating Silent Hill 2 to countless people, and almost none of them have actually done it because they just don't have computers strong enough to maintain all this extra disk space on patches and buggy pirate hardware.

This is not the "master" collection that the name lives up to, I will not deny, but I feel like people are picking out all kinds of minor problems just to stick it up to Konami some more. Yes, criticize them all you want, but you still have to be upfront and draw the line between something that's genuinely horrible and something that has problems but still perfectly fine. The fact that it has a lower score on Metacritic than the Silent Hill HD Collection makes no sense to me.

[Koivusilta]

A whole 25 minute video to claim that people seemingly aren't interested in accurate retro releases because... they weren't happy with this very obviously not accurate retro release?

Interesting observation, for sure.

[Deathraven13]

Originally posted by metal_hamster:

This is interesting. I didn't have any sort of audio issue. That and the stick works how it always did.

Same here, since OP doesn't own the game on PC it may an issue related to console.

Originally posted by Cyber Moduled:

My point of bringing up C&C remaster is that there's a way to have their cake and eat it too if they put in even the slightest effort. Them treating this as "preservation" is less about any genuine preservation attempts and more likely an excuse for Konami to not put in a lot of time and resources on this collection in the first place because it's easy money.

Also yes, they are lazy for having a bug around a feature as fundamental as SAVING THE GAME in there on launch at all. Great, they're fixing bugs that was never in the original and only added from their lack of playtesting. Bravo, take my $20.

I don't have some kind of raging hate boner for Konami, but considering M2's other remaster/emulation ports that have a lot more polish to them, they clearly did not give them the proper time or budget to do something beyond a minimum viable product (something that long standing players on PC are probably not going to accept when Duckstation has been the end all, be all, can even run on mobile devices and Raspberry Pi's emulation for PS1 titles for years now).

If YOU'RE happy with it, good for you, but the numerous video comparisons and technical issues people have reported about these versions indicated they didn't do a good job of preservation beyond basic functionality. Just because you think it looks and sounds the same as it does from memory, doesn't mean it really does.

Remastering C&C is easier than remastering this collection, all they need to do is remaster units, buildings and the map, in short it's easier than even just remastering MGS1 since there it's in 3D. Let's not forget that the last time they've remastered MGS1 it flopped hard and the majority of the MGS community hated it, so Konami made the right choice here.

Most PC games come up with issues, that's nothing new for PC players, MGS5:TPP had the Quiet corruption save and even to this day your save can be erased for some reasons, but because it was "a hideo kojima game" you are not complaing about it..........

If they remaster the whole collection Konami wouldn't have earned more money: Because remastering the collection would take more time to make and more money, 20$ for such remaster wouldn't make a profit AND if Konami was really lazy they would have "remastered" MGS5 like TLOU.....

About hating Konami I'll just say this: Actions speak louder than words.

Finaly on the last subject: Yes I'm happy about this collection, just like the video mentionned the collection tell you what you'll get, so it says MGS1 is a PS1 game and guess what ? I got a PS1 game. Amazing the words didn't lie to me. It also tell you that this is not a remastered collection so all you need to expect is for the game to be playable on your PC: Job done I can play them without issues, with time modders will improve games as always, may it be in replayability like in XCOM games or fixing the game like Death Stranding, so I got what was written and I didn't listen to what youtubers said.

Let's not forget one last thing since we are on the collection and remastering topic: Remastering MGS 1 2 & 3 in this collection is pointless, why ? Because Konami is already doing MGS Delta, we know that it's the same audio so the same story, but instead we will get new graphism, I see the whole picture and do some research, that way I know what to expect, it's important to do your own research because if you let people brainwash you....... Like there was a boycott for Hogwarts Legacy, I'm not a huge HP fan but I pre-ordered the game because after doing some research on it it looked good, it didn't disappoint, so I don't follow the mob just because it's the popular thing to do.

That's why no matter how much people would bash this collection, A vagrant story/Koudelka re-release that would be just emulation for 20$ and more I would still make my own decision, If buying a re-release mean that I support a franchise I like just to get more of that franchise: I'll do it, for a reseaonnable price tho, I won't buy Disgaea 7 when the full game is 100$ nor Like a dragon: Infinite Wealth for 100$ because NG+ is locked behind that price, base game of IW is 70$ for a solo game with no good replayability, better buy XCOM2 knowing mods add a lot more content.

Yes I'll probably pre-order Shadow of the ninja/Blue shadows if it mean we could get a sequel or other gems remade, just like I did here in the hope of getting VOL2, if possible with MGS, MGS PW and why not the whole PSP games (Acid and portable). Otherwise the books added in this collection are pretty cool, it's cool to have even if a lot of people probably won't even bother with that.

[staticsnake]

This whole debacle for weeks has been highlighting the types of people who wouldn't love their partners anymore if they were in any way made imperfect by some kind of harm.

I'll keep laughing watching these forums in between my play hours racking up cause these games are just fun in any form.

I have multiple versions of all the originals, I have the HD's, I have various re-releases, I have the emulators, and I have the Master Collection (on more than one platform ahahaha). And I have played soooo much of all of them. I'll never forget how Ground Zeroes was "just a demo" and I was supposed to hate it as I got over a hundred hours of fun from playing a single base 4,000 different ways. Ahahahaha. Cheers!

Oh, I'm outta popcorn, better grab more.

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by staticsnake:

This whole debacle for weeks has been highlighting the types of people who wouldn't love their partners anymore if they were in any way made imperfect by some kind of harm.

I'll keep laughing watching these forums in between my play hours racking up cause these games are just fun in any form.

I have multiple versions of all the originals, I have the HD's, I have various re-releases, I have the emulators, and I have the Master Collection (on more than one platform ahahaha). And I have played soooo much of all of them. I'll never forget how Ground Zeroes was "just a demo" and I was supposed to hate it as I got over a hundred hours of fun from playing a single base 4,000 different ways. Ahahahaha. Cheers!

Oh, I'm outta popcorn, better grab more.

Well, if you want to make an accurate analogy, it's more like your partner has been cloned but turns out the company responsbile for it isn't very good at cloning (porting, or emulating in the case of MGS).

[Pierce Dalton]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Originally posted by metal_hamster:

This is interesting. I didn't have any sort of audio issue. That and the stick works how it always did.

Same here, since OP doesn't own the game on PC it may an issue related to console.

Originally posted by Cyber Moduled:

My point of bringing up C&C remaster is that there's a way to have their cake and eat it too if they put in even the slightest effort. Them treating this as "preservation" is less about any genuine preservation attempts and more likely an excuse for Konami to not put in a lot of time and resources on this collection in the first place because it's easy money.

Also yes, they are lazy for having a bug around a feature as fundamental as SAVING THE GAME in there on launch at all. Great, they're fixing bugs that was never in the original and only added from their lack of playtesting. Bravo, take my $20.

I don't have some kind of raging hate boner for Konami, but considering M2's other remaster/emulation ports that have a lot more polish to them, they clearly did not give them the proper time or budget to do something beyond a minimum viable product (something that long standing players on PC are probably not going to accept when Duckstation has been the end all, be all, can even run on mobile devices and Raspberry Pi's emulation for PS1 titles for years now).

If YOU'RE happy with it, good for you, but the numerous video comparisons and technical issues people have reported about these versions indicated they didn't do a good job of preservation beyond basic functionality. Just because you think it looks and sounds the same as it does from memory, doesn't mean it really does.

Remastering C&C is easier than remastering this collection, all they need to do is remaster units, buildings and the map, in short it's easier than even just remastering MGS1 since there it's in 3D. Let's not forget that the last time they've remastered MGS1 it flopped hard and the majority of the MGS community hated it, so Konami made the right choice here.

Most PC games come up with issues, that's nothing new for PC players, MGS5:TPP had the Quiet corruption save and even to this day your save can be erased for some reasons, but because it was "a hideo kojima game" you are not complaing about it..........

If they remaster the whole collection Konami wouldn't have earned more money: Because remastering the collection would take more time to make and more money, 20$ for such remaster wouldn't make a profit AND if Konami was really lazy they would have "remastered" MGS5 like TLOU.....

About hating Konami I'll just say this: Actions speak louder than words.

Finaly on the last subject: Yes I'm happy about this collection, just like the video mentionned the collection tell you what you'll get, so it says MGS1 is a PS1 game and guess what ? I got a PS1 game. Amazing the words didn't lie to me.

Well, you may have forgot that but Konami said that the games would run at 1080p except on the Switch. Do they run at 1080p without mods? Because if they don't, then Konami straight up lied.

Also, MGS never got a remaster, TS was a remake and the community doesn't hate it, only a vocal minority does. In fact, some people have purchased a Gamecube just to play that game.

[petran79]

Of course they can license Duckstation, like Sony did with PCSX Rearmed

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/console/sony-s-playstation-classic-is-powered-by-the-open-source-emulator-pcsx