FTL: Why it's awesome, why it's fun, and why it's inherently bad design, as well as why it's easy to fix

[Katsuni]

I'm at least a third generation addict to FTL, and have created several 4th and 5th generation ones so far. =P In essence, it's easy to addict people to it because it's a fun game! And yet, time and again, the same problem always arises; the game is inherently flawed at it's most basic, intrinsic level.

The majority of my friends aren't particularly well versed in game design theory, so aren't particularly adept at figuring out exactly where the problem is. I've been in the business for quite some time however, and know exactly where the problem lies.

It's not that it's a hard game; if anything, people love it even more for that addictive property. No, it's that laced in with that "hard" aspect, is a secondary issue known as "false difficulty". It's difficulty that isn't really there, it's just pretend, as if it were hard, but honestly shouldn't be part of the game.

An example of this would be a game with a poor UI (user interface), such as FFXI (Final Fantasy 11). The game is hailed as being hardcore and difficult! In all honesty, it wasn't a particularly difficult game, however. What passed for "difficult" was just a poor user interface that made it very difficult to get your character to actually do what the player wanted them to do. Having to blindly guess at whether spells were ready or not, not providing absolutely needed information to play the game, and severely inadequate support and controls is not a "challenge", it's just poor design.

So, too, does FTL have a problem with this. The game is hard, of that there's no question. Without skill, even on easy mode, a player can't realistically hope to survive. The problem here, is that you can perform perfectly, play with flawless tactics and strategy, do every last thing perfect, without a single error, and still lose 95%+ of the time because far too much of the game is held up to blind luck, rather than skill.

The issue is primarily that the vast majority of the ship designs absolutely require certain components to be of any particular value. The stealth ship A variant, for example, needs shields and firepower. It doesn't lack for defenses in the slightest, but it simply flat out doesn't have the punch needed to break through the end boss's shielding. A single missile or being fed nothing but beam weapons or Anti-Ship drone mk1's just isn't going to cut it. The Engi ship A variant is just short of useless without getting the drone arm early on in the game, otherwise you're going to burn through remarkable amounts of spare parts and repairs to fix your ship up due to being forced to play excessively conservative.

This wouldn't be a problem at all if the player had to make some tough choices, or succeed some difficult challenge to earn these parts. Perhaps they could be given a choice at the start of the game; one of three items they need in order to survive. Perhaps the player could be presented with a skill challenge against a very powerful ship early on that's guaranteed to be possible to kill with their own ship if the player times their attacks properly.

The point here is, that skill should always trump blind luck when it comes to difficulty. A little luck to spice things up isn't bad, but when it overrides skill entirely, then it's no longer a "hard" game, but just a game of chance, of which the input of the user is honestly negligible. That's not even a game any longer, it's a TV show that you watch play itself once the player's value is removed from the game.

So, how do we fix this? Surprisingly easily, actually. There's a few ways to go about such, with varying benefits and problems associated with such.

1: The easiest method is to simply increase the amount of items available for purchase at the stores. More chances for finding what you need means a better chance you'll be able to equip yourself by the 8th sector if you play it smart. The downside is that this still leaves a lot of luck in the mix, and there will still be a significant % of games where you simply could never have won, no matter how well you played. It limits the issue significantly, however, so it's a simple and easy method to make the game far more reasonable.

2: Allow for a scaling of certain items and permanent choices; allowing access to all choices for weapons, systems and augmentations, but making them be significantly more expensive, or scaling in cost throughout the various sectors, gives the player a valid set of choices, but makes those choices more difficult. The downside here is that this damages the whole saving up for useful stuff, and it could mess with the game's balance too much early on in the game.

3: Add certain shops with the ability to get a particular item of choice for an increased cost. Just how badly do you need that repair drone? How much would you pay for a bigger gun? Double price for a guaranteed gun that you might find cheap at the next store could be a nasty risk to take, but could be what you need to live, as well. The downside here is primarily the various limitations of how a store like this would appear; as an event, it's too random to be fairly distributed, and may land us back in the same situation we're in. As a guaranteed location, it's too easy to prepare around it and detracts from the "randomly generated levels" aspect. Having a single shop like this for every other level, but having it randomly generated in each level for location (say... one always shows up in 2,4,6,8) could mitigate the downsides of both to a substantial degree, but still suffers from both as well to a degree.

Regardless, there's no simple, or pure method to fix the issue, because something is always being sacrificed in the process. Regardless, though, FTL has quickly gained a reputation for being the game we love to hate. It's enjoyable to play due to being different each game, and the customization of the ship, as well as the tactics and strategy for various players and ship types is great! The ship battles are interesting, even after grinding pirates for hours on end.

The aspect of luck isn't inherently a bad one; that touch of chaos is a large part of what keeps replay value going and ensures the player isn't comfortable. Running through a mantis zone at 3 life left and pulling through it due to careful maneuvering is really a great feeling. Making the decision to trade off the money for repairs to get a bigger gun because you didn't have trouble until now that led you into that mess, however, is what should be important here, not the luck on the missions you get. It should be your choice to make that tradeoff, a decision on the player's part in relation to their personal evaluation of the risk VS reward weighting as they see it.

By adding too much blind luck, however, that choice becomes irrelevant, or nonexistent. Dragging around 120 scrap without spending it so that you can buy that eventual pre-igniter should be the player's choice to risk that they won't need the scrap before they find it, not the risk that the item itself may never show up.

Strategy only works if the tools to work with that strategy are capable of being acquired.

In any case, luck is good to have as part of the game, and it's a large part of why it's so much fun, so destroying that entirely is a bad idea. That element of chaos really is one of the larger parts that keeps players sticking around long term, and would entice them to continue pouring money into it were DLC available for things like extra ships or layout packs. There's just too much luck is all, to the point that it's stopped being a "hard" game, and has just turned into being more a case of "throwing yourself at a brick wall until you eventually break it down by sheer attrition".

For those who have not played the game before, it's great fun! Of this there is no doubt! It's addictive and entertaining! I got FTL, Guild Wars 2, Supreme Commander/Forged Alliance, and a few others such as Darkspore, Borderlands 2, and Torchlight 2 in relatively close succession. Guess which one I've played by far the most? FTL. It's definitely got the addictive qualities that made games like Tetris or Pac Man as epic as they are today.

Unfortunately, still for those who have not played the game yet, FTL is an absolute failure in it's implementation. It's an exercise in frustration wrought primarily from the fact that the vast majority of the games you play of it are doomed to failure from the absolute start, and nothing you could have done would have changed the outcome. I recommend getting it, but being aware that 90%+ of the FTL games you play are not possible to be won from the instant you start them, and that you won't realize this until you die at the end when you realize you simply were never given the options needed to win.

It's not exactly great fun going all game and never once seeing a single missile or multi-shot weapon, and being physically incapable of even dropping the end boss's shields because you were fed nothing but beam weapons throughout the whole game. Sadly, this is the one major failing in FTL, and it's not really forgivable. This is why it's simply going to piss most players off. Completionists and perfectionists will hate it due to there being such a high chance that they have only the most vague of control over whether they get various achievements or not. Those who value skill and winning by being clever will also be sorely disappointed. Those who want a challenge will find themselves running into an invisible brick wall with no way to break it or go around. As such, FTL is playable, and fun, but will probably drive the vast majority of people who would enjoy it to near-murderous rage.

Hopefully they'll patch it and narrow down the disproportionate amount of luck needed to enjoy the game fully. Until that time, however, play it only with the understanding that it's a frustrating game where you'll die almost every game, and it won't be through any fault of your own most of the time (assuming you're a competent captain). If you can handle that, feel free to play it! It's well worth the buy! If you can't tolerate completely retarded and arbitrary failure for no apparent reason, then you might want to look elsewhere.

[♡ ♡]

As far as the devs are concerned FTL is complete there is no need to dumb anything down or make it easier or "forgiving". I swear the devs must laugh at these kind of threads hoping for them to make it more forgiving etc etc. They made this game for a challenge and very unforgiving. Ever been gibbed in an ion storm vs a 4 man crew portal ship? I have once although very rare to have that scenario, it sucks but it is part of the unforgivingness of the game that makes it so great.

[Whimper]

Very well written review and analysis. But I think what you'll find is that Vigilius is right- the amount of sheer dumb luck that permeates this game was a design flaw by choice. The developers wanted to make a "rogue-like-like" and part of that is making it random, unfair, and too hard.

You can't remove the chance element, because it would be like playing Blackjack with all of the cards always face-up. It would be like playing chess, instead of some weird version of chess where randomly one of the pawns turns out to be a queen who gets a pre-emptive strike when you enter her square.

[Pontiac Jones]

Roguelikes are, by their very nature, unforgiving. Sometimes you can turn around a bad situation and sometimes there isn't a thing you can do. It happens. It isn't a bug or a flaw or even an oversight, it's just the way the game is. Maybe you don't like that (or hate as some might say) and that's fine, but in that case I'd recommend avoiding roguelikes in the future. They are games of chance, after all.

[Katsuni]

Sad... I suppose I don't understand the concept of essentially wanting to intentionally fail. I actually don't want the game made easier, I'd rather it be made harder than it actually is. The game's difficulty is a joke to me right now, as it's not hard in the slightest; it just arbitrarily fails to provide the tools necessary to win is all.

If anything, it's lazy design in that it wouldn't be that much more difficult to give the players extra control, but in return for that control, make it so that they absolutely need to actually utilize that control to survive.

Also, the comparison to blackjack's a poor decision as well. Blackjack, as with any other gambling game, is not about the cards you have in your hand, so much as the cards you can make your opponent think that you have in your hand. It's all deception and subterfuge, which is why poker is such a popular game, and can be played for millions of dollars. Yes, it's a game of chance, but just because you have a losing hand, doesn't mean you won't still win the pot with clever maneuvering and choices.

I dunno, I guess the mere concept that people are happy with mediocre appalls me. The game could be made far more brutally unfair and challenging, yet more control given to the player to have more say in the final outcome. The mere suggestion that it's intentional to create something that's reminiscent of an abusive relationship leaves me with a headache.

Just following blindly into another's footsteps isn't good practice; if they screwed it up before, learn from their mistakes and do better on them, rather than simply stating that you're trying to emulate their mistakes so it's alright to make the same failures.

FTL could be one of the most challenging and profitable indie games on all of steam if they wanted. It could be a dozen times harder than it is now, and still rack in the players and throw DLC at them, and they'd eat it up like candy. Instead, you tell me that they have accepted a half-assed job and have striven only for mediocrity, and are pleased they have attained their sub-par goals.

It kind of hurts to hear that even suggested. On the plus side, it also means I could just as easily make my own and flatten them, which I may yet do after my current project is completed.

[SOS]

Originally posted by Viglus:

As far as the devs are concerned FTL is complete there is no need to dumb anything down or make it easier or "forgiving". I swear the devs must laugh at these kind of threads hoping for them to make it more forgiving etc etc. They made this game for a challenge and very unforgiving. Ever been gibbed in an ion storm vs a 4 man crew portal ship? I have once although very rare to have that scenario, it sucks but it is part of the unforgivingness of the game that makes it so great.

If you read his post he isn't complaining that it's too hard, he's saying that the game has a very low skill ceiling and is mostly determined by dice rolls.

Originally posted by Pontiac Jones:

Roguelikes are, by their very nature, unforgiving. Sometimes you can turn around a bad situation and sometimes there isn't a thing you can do. It happens. It isn't a bug or a flaw or even an oversight, it's just the way the game is. Maybe you don't like that (or hate as some might say) and that's fine, but in that case I'd recommend avoiding roguelikes in the future. They are games of chance, after all.

There is certainly an element of luck to roguelikes, however FTL relies almost entirely on luck; this is just bad game design. On the upside, there are a bunch of mods coming down the pipe; the infinite space mod is already a huge improvement over the original in every possible way, and it's actually more difficult from the get-go; mostly because your actions as the player have a much greater impact on your survival.

[Sprinter220]

I doubt widening player's choice would "improve" the game, on the contrary, it would make the game less replayable and less challenging, because if there is a choice, player would always stick to the one that's better, and the best choices for players are usually the minority of the whole pool.

[Harpuea]

I agree that luck requirement should be reduced and the skill requirement should be absolutely increased. I have beaten easy and normal and to do so I must run into shops that carries the required items for success. Which is more weapons. Your ships are inherently more tankier than NPC ships. Even if you trade blows, you will comes out on top. However, most of the time you cannot find weapons required to knock down 3 shields efficiently. The enemy shields increase are most predictable. 1st sector 1 shield, 2nd sector 1 shield, 3rd sector 2 shield, 4th sector 2 shield. If you don't have enough weapons to knock down 3 shields..... It is a failed game. Sometimes the pattern may not hold up and you can survive a little longer, but it is only to delay your doom if you cannot find good items. Sure you can win against a 3 shield opponent with missiles weapons, but you will get a net negative in scrap due to repairs and the huge amount of ammo spent. To win the game you must have a net postive in scraps every engagement. Otherwise, you are stuck with a basic ship forever.

However, I usually die before finding the said items. Finding weapons by luck is another way to survive, but that is not skill. The shops should have more choices is the only thing I wish that was implemented.

[Katsuni]

Thanks, Harpuea and sostrich for actually reading that carefully =P

As stated, it's not a hard game, it's just blind luck most of the time.

Luck isn't inherently bad, in and of itself! Sometimes the dice can really put you in a spot that makes you think far more than you would otherwise. It can turn a relatively simple engagement into a remarkably tough fight just as easily. On the other hand, it can go too far, with Harpuea's post describing this all too well - if you don't get the guns, you die.

I go out of my way to keep enough scrap in reserve for particular items I need, and go hunting specifically for those shops, especially the ones on the far left side of a sector that you need to get in 3 jumps or less, as they tend to have better odds on good stuff. Unfortunately, it's all for naught in most of the games anyway. Even if you play perfectly, prepare yourself as best as allowed, and try to set yourself up right, in the end... if you don't have enough direct fire weapons (such as it only feeding you beam weapons), you're pretty much screwed. There is no interaction with the game at that point, you just flop over and die, without any real hope for survival. I can still get to the end boss with near perfect regularity at this point, with only the occasional hiccup, but if I simply never got the tools needed to break down L4 shields + stealth with consistency, then I'm not going to win no matter how well I play.

The last game I played, I had a mini-laser, a twin laser, and a pike beam as the only weapons of quality given to me to pick from. Everything else was drones, and sadly, two level 1 anti-ship drones just didn't cut it. With careful timing of cloaks and waiting for the exact right moment to unload a barrage of fire, I could dip into the enemy ship's shields just ever so barely enough to do 1 point of damage to their shield generator for the rare instances when they didn't just dodge half the attacks. Unfortunately, after that one point was done, the next salvo would never go through, because they'd just cloak, repair it, and be back at 4 shields again.

So yes, I plinked away with perfect timing, dodging the missle barrages, forcing my near useless weapons package to damage their ship 1 point of hull at a time (their sheilds regenerated so fast that the pike/mini beams were nigh-useless since the shields would nearly instantly recharge, so that even with judicious use of timed attacks and pausing to set up precise salvos, it would recharge the shields before the second hit box was damaged...), and I even got the boss down to about 30% health. Unfortunately, there was no way to win from the start, and the entire game was a waste of time, because I was never given the option to win; it was a failed game from the very start due to the generation of the shop's inventory, and nothing I could have done would have changed that.

The point is that choice exists when you have a variety of methods to pick from and some of them will work, and some of them won't, but you have to gauge which is more important at any given time. Which is more important to you? Killing the enemy's engines so they don't flee, or risking an extra salvo at their weapons before they get that missile system back online so you don't have to repair your systems afterward. If you had extra points into sensors you'd know if you had the time to pick one or the other, but that was another decision that was made, where you chose to go for extra shielding a sector early instead.

Picking the lesser of two evils is a great way to do this, but it's especially effective if you're not always certain which the lesser is, but can infer some sort of vague leaning on which is more likely to be the one which is the better choice.

Random chance spices things up and gives players more things to think about when making their decisions, in that the same decision won't always be the right one.

My boyfriend in particular was continually fawning over and debating which to go for... the slug ship or the crystal ship... maybe a 60% chance of getting the slug, or 20% for the crystal, but it's worth a try. Which chance to go for? The better chance for something you don't want that badly, or take a gamble on the smaller chance of something desirable that you might not have any chance at all at for awhile?

This is the kind of decision that makes a player enjoy the game; it was their decision to take the chance, and they knew the risks when they took it. It's not a guaranteed option that they'll be rewarded for it, but that gamble is on their head, not the game's.

[bythedesertsands]

Most of the problems you are describing have now been fixed, remember the game is still in beta.

[Kiros]

Originally posted by Katsuni:

Also, the comparison to blackjack's a poor decision as well. Blackjack, as with any other gambling game, is not about the cards you have in your hand, so much as the cards you can make your opponent think that you have in your hand. It's all deception and subterfuge, which is why poker is such a popular game, and can be played for millions of dollars. Yes, it's a game of chance, but just because you have a losing hand, doesn't mean you won't still win the pot with clever maneuvering and choices.

I think you are confusing blackjack with poker here, you play blackjack with your cards face up and only the dealer has a facedown card. you keep taking cards until the risk of busting is too high, much like ftl, you take calculated risks.

[Katsuni]

That's... a rather poor way to play blackjack? Normally you have one card facedown, where the point is to have the other player(s) having to guess whether you really are over the limit already or not.

After going back to check on the rules however, I've found there is actually an exception to this; if you're playing at a casino, then you play with your cards face up because the dealer has excessively strict rules on how to play in any given situation, in that you may as well be playing a computer game as the dealer has absolutely no say on the outcome, with no decisions to be made, regardless of your hand, and you play solely against the dealer, ignoring all other players.

As such, yes, you're technically right, but so am I when playing against people other than a dealer at a casino =P

[Mawkish]

Have you ever played Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup? I like to compare this game to that. The point of the game isn't the destination, it's the journey, the things you do along the way that make the game.

The final boss is that test to see if your run was up to snuff imo. In stone soup you are journeying to the bottom of a long deep dungeon, very much D&D and the like. The thing was you could customize a awesome character and every level was randomly generated, what you pick up along the way is the best part.

One play through you may get an awesome peice of armor or a great weapon to help you go further down and down into the dungeon. I have never, EVER got to the bottom, and I know that once you get to the bottom, you must bring the quest item back to the top.

The point is, the game isnt meant entirely to be finished, there's a certain hunger that you want to satiate by getting to the end and beating that mothership.

[Megaloco33]

You don't need all the weapons on the same Shop, it is without logic,if you need "heavier" weapons, go to Mantis ou Rock Sectors, it's very simple, use the logic, if you want to buy a some new "Legal Crew" go to controlled Sectors, ou civil Sector, this "Universal Shop" it's totally unnecessary, just use the logic and you will find what you want bro

[DarkTwinge]

...This thread is TWO AND A HALF YEARS OLD.

[MaGicBush]

Thread Necro lol. What did you scroll back like 30 pages and say "hey I am gonna respond and help this guy that doesn't play anymore most likely?" If your that bored find a new game :P.