FTL: Faster Than Light

FTL: Faster Than Light

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Mahtasooma 2014 年 4 月 16 日 上午 3:45
About why the Rebel Flagship is bad game design
I like this game. A lot. I have 77 hours played.
I like how you are allowed to try so much different styles of play.

Until the last fight. Without raw burst power, you will never survive phase 3, period.

The problem with the Rebel ship is, that apart from the four weapon rooms you can take care of, some powers simply cannot be addressed. Especially the one in phase 3. Or at least not that I know.

But also in phase 2, if you take out the drone room, there should not be a phase 2 drone assult superpower.

This results in needing some form of survival combined with sheer burst damage to take down the Flagship. If you set up your ship for a slow assault, hacking, just winning by Teleportation and so on... well, good luck with that.

And that is not what it should be. For every conceivable way you can GET to the Flagship, there should be an adequate tactic to take it down. But there simply isn't.
At least that's what I think. Or somebody show me a way to win against the Flagship with a Fire focussed Rock crew boarding tactic with Hacking and Drones.
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kwils2 2014 年 4 月 16 日 下午 5:22 
I agree the flag ship boss at the end needs to be dumned down by a bit but I do not believe that this is bad game design what so ever. The creators of this game made this games boss to be very hard and it recquires a lot of skill and strategy most players will not normally have, but it is however possible to beat the flag ship, I've seen average gamers do it before with my own eyes though I've never beaton the boss itself
Mahtasooma 2014 年 4 月 16 日 下午 6:29 
I never said it was hard. I said it was bad game design because it heavily favors certain equipments. But beforehand the game tells you it's ok to do whatever you want, because, you know, roguelike.
Dormammu 2014 年 4 月 16 日 下午 6:37 
I'm with you. I like the idea of the power surges and how they get destroyed after each phase,but the fact that the flagship starts with EVERY SUB-SYSTEM IN THE GAME ON is insane. They should've slowly added more of the systems.
Field94 2014 年 4 月 16 日 下午 7:45 
"The game favors certain equipment". Take this into consideration: Yesterday I beat the game for the first time in Easy (yeah I know, working on it) and Ive been to sector 8 in every ship. I'ved died to Phase 3 plenty of times, some of which were Double KOs (someone remind me if/when that was changed to a technical victory), all of which have been my fault.

Fact of the matter is, unless you are paying attention and have accomidated the 3 things required to beat all three phases (Evasion, Protection, Damage) and ensuring all three are maintained between phases, you do not deserve to win and it is NOT RNG. Going into any of the phases in the red (and i would say in the yellow) and having done nothing to lower incident (not making sure crew are healed up / you didnt put money into shields and instead are trying to DPS it quickly while taking stupid shots) or even going into the fight without having a way to RELIABLY lower their shields and get a shot in (which I feel the shop changes and the new weapons make this IMPOSSIBLE now if you are playing properly) no way you should expect to win.

Considering the alternate unlocks rely on beating the boss with a previous ship, and considering I won with an Engi Type A outfitted with only the additon of a Burst Laser II and an additional offensive drone (not because its the ONLY way, but because I felt the 3 damage along with a 4sec cooldown ion cannon AND two offense drones could crack their shields reliably). If you know what you are doing as far as upgrades / additions / replacements, more than doable with any ship and most any layout as long as you are thinking.

Also rule of thumb, and reiterating what everyone has said: prioritize that missile launcher. Every powersurge and the other weapons can easily be dodged / shielded / taken on the chin but those MISSILES are BRUTAL. If you are still getting 'sploded phase 1 after reading this thread you need to reconsider your playstyle overall. If dying to Phase 2, accomidate for that without neglecting what you feel already works. If Phase 3, best advice would be to optimize what ISNT reliant on RNG (weapon drops / augments / additional systems) so that you get to Phase 3 relatively unscathed.

TLDR: Keep Calm and Jump to Next Sector. (also Rogue Legacy is worse about "favoring" builds than this as far as bosses go, and even that is a lie.)
February 2014 年 4 月 16 日 下午 9:42 
引用自 Mahtasooma
引用自 Sublime

It's not bad design. You've had 8 sectors to prepare yourself. You knew what to expect, you should've planned accordingly.

You are not getting my point.
There is no sense in letting you play as you want because it's a roguelike, but then telling you at the boss fight "well, I guess burst damage, cloak and defense drones would come in handy now".
LethalFrag beat the Flagship on Mantis Cruiser A, which is one of the worst ships, while having a basic laser and an l. bomb.
http://www.twitch.tv/lethalfrag/c/4059367 - skip to ~2:43 for the final fight.

So, no burst damage and no cloak, though he did have defense drones. If 2 out of the 3 things you've mentioned are not necessary to beat the boss, I don't see this as a bad design.

Sometimes I wonder if, by making such a bold topic name, people just fuel their egos to to comfort themselves that 'yes, there are more people who agree with me, which automatically makes my point valid'.

Boarding is great, burst damage is great, cloaking is great but it is possible to beat the ship without having all 3, not even 2 of those, so even if the game favors certain setups, it's just as doable to beat it without them.
最後修改者:February; 2014 年 4 月 16 日 下午 9:46
Bob of Mage 2014 年 4 月 17 日 上午 12:03 
引用自 Individual
LethalFrag beat the Flagship on Mantis Cruiser A, which is one of the worst ships, while having a basic laser and an l. bomb.
http://www.twitch.tv/lethalfrag/c/4059367 - skip to ~2:43 for the final fight.

So, no burst damage and no cloak, though he did have defense drones. If 2 out of the 3 things you've mentioned are not necessary to beat the boss, I don't see this as a bad design.

Sometimes I wonder if, by making such a bold topic name, people just fuel their egos to to comfort themselves that 'yes, there are more people who agree with me, which automatically makes my point valid'.

Boarding is great, burst damage is great, cloaking is great but it is possible to beat the ship without having all 3, not even 2 of those, so even if the game favors certain setups, it's just as doable to beat it without them.

See it is stuff like this that shows that FTL is not as bad as some people say. I'd also take the example of players saying that you must never kill all the flagship's crew in bold. There is in fact a way to beat the boss that would aim to just that. Breachs are not repaired by the AI and in fact prevent it from EVERY repairing said system. So you kill all the crew phase one and then in phase two and three you send boarders to knock out the helm followed by 100% hit Breach Bombs. After all the systems go down just make sure you have a Basic Laser at least to finsh off the boss. For added fun use a Broading Drone to speed things up.
hghwolf 2014 年 4 月 17 日 上午 12:56 
引用自 Mahtasooma
I never said it was hard. I said it was bad game design because it heavily favors certain equipments. But beforehand the game tells you it's ok to do whatever you want, because, you know, roguelike.

...you do realize that "do whatever you want" doesn`t mean "you`ll be as effective doing X as you will be doing Y" right ?

For example : focusing on venom magic exclusively is something you CAN do in DCSS. That still won`t make you very effective in Crypt or, assuming you even get there, Pan.
Gekkibi 2014 年 4 月 17 日 上午 2:30 
引用自 Bob of Mage
So you kill all the crew phase one and then in phase two and three you send boarders to knock out the helm followed by 100% hit Breach Bombs. After all the systems go down just make sure you have a Basic Laser at least to finsh off the boss. For added fun use a Broading Drone to speed things up.

Killing all the crew is ok assuming you have certain weapons, like you meantioned. However, there's no point of killing the laser turret guy during phase 1. After you have taken all the other weapons down the flagship can't hurt you at all, assuming you have at least 3 shield bubbles. You can kill him during phase 2 after you have destroyed the other 2 weapons... This method is a lot more optimized way to do it.

</offtopic>
Jingseng 2014 年 4 月 17 日 上午 4:41 
Disagree. "Hard games are hard."

High engines allow you to avoid damage better than shields; high engines plus shields + drones synergize well.

Cloaking will allow you to dodge all of it.

A missile loadout will allow you to bypass all shields and eliminate the weapons systems. A bomb loadout, teleporter, and (optional) zoltan shields bypass will do the same. This gives you much more breathing space to deal with the "super" weapon.

Frankly, if you can get by the first stage of the boss fight (or first AND second), I can't see why you can't get by the third (but for random luck or HP) - you face about as many projectiles/attacks in each stage.

Take it or leave it, but it is not bad game design.
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張貼日期: 2014 年 4 月 16 日 上午 3:45
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