Hull laser MKII vs Burst laser MKII

[Kepler_22]

Some neat weapons that have upsides. Whats the difference?

I would probably love to see a look over this topic, since i find the idea of the hull laser MKII interesting.

For the burst laser, It is far more consistent, it uses less energy, and i "think" it recharges faster.
But it does not do 2x damage to systemless rooms.

For the Hull laser, it can do 6 damage per laser, but it does not have the advantages the burst laser has.

Most points here do not mention shielding. I suppose the burst laser would win out in that regard to a much lesser cooldown.

In the case of the hull laser, you can still do the exact same damage as 4 burst laser MKIIs (assuming you target the systemless rooms), and you also get the ability to use one other supportive 2-power weapon. You have to target systemless rooms however, so perhaps a breach MKII would be the most useful for disabling rooms.

But for the burst laser, it is far more consistent. If you go a full BLMKII setup you *Will* do 12 damage no matter if the module has a system. and insane power efficency stands out.

But the main reason that i want to open this discussion: Is there a powerful enough 2-power supportive weapon (or offensive, perhaps even a burst laser mkii lmao) to warrant going for a hull laser MKII setup?

Seems less rng too. good luck finding 4 bursts

[Brosef Iosif]

Unfortunately the HL2 isn't a very good weapon. It's expensive in terms of energy and is poor against it's direct competition with the benefit that it's dual-used. BL2 and flak are superior in terms of anti-shields use, Halberd is vastly superior in terms of damage and I would argue that Heavy Laser 2 is as well. You sacrifice a lot just for the ability to have two roles that you'll perform in a subpar fashion. Doing damage to the hull but not to the systems is just asking to take more damage in return.

Besides, if you actually base yourself on the HL2 to do damage, you're probably already facing enemies with 5+ weapons systems as well, meaning targetting empty rooms and not disabling the opposition. Compare that to the halberd beam which is more available, can't miss (super important), same energy cost, slightly higher cooldown but a reliable 8-damage output that can disable multiple systems. Even a heavy laser 2 can inflict a wooping 4 damages to a single system which is arguably more interesting imho that simply doing hull damage. You don't need to do a lot of damage to the hull really. It's better to take three volleys while disabling the enemy offense with the first that kill the enemy in two volleys but take the enemy's two as well.

In fact, I'd argue that the HL2 is a better weapon as it's competition (BL1, Charge Laser 1, Chain Laser 2) is much more closer in terms of efficiency, also the cost is more available.

FTL isn't a balanced game, some weapons are strictly better than others and overall better in the big picture, Flak1, BL2, Halberd Beam are such weapons while the HL2 is a bad jack-of-all-trades. Also, the HL2 is a pretty rare weapon with no ship starting with, compared to the BL2 and Halberd for instance. Meaning you have to go on your way to buy a sub-par weapon just to find if it works, or get lucky and have it offered. Makes it even less worth it.

I'd say the idea of going "full X weapon" is silly, I'd rather have something like BL1, Flak1 and Halberd Beam, all common, efficient and cheap weapons than going for a unicorn loadout that happens to be less efficient. If you want to go that route, 4x Flak1 is a better comparison than 4x BL2 as there's actually a pretty good chance to be able to field it and also just because it fires so fast it's actually worth it.

[Kepler_22]

Originally posted by Brosef Iosif:

Unfortunately the HL2 isn't a very good weapon. It's expensive in terms of energy and is poor against it's direct competition with the benefit that it's dual-used. BL2 and flak are superior in terms of anti-shields use, Halberd is vastly superior in terms of damage and I would argue that Heavy Laser 2 is as well. You sacrifice a lot just for the ability to have two roles that you'll perform in a subpar fashion. Doing damage to the hull but not to the systems is just asking to take more damage in return.

Besides, if you actually base yourself on the HL2 to do damage, you're probably already facing enemies with 5+ weapons systems as well, meaning targetting empty rooms and not disabling the opposition. Compare that to the halberd beam which is more available, can't miss (super important), same energy cost, slightly higher cooldown but a reliable 8-damage output that can disable multiple systems. Even a heavy laser 2 can inflict a wooping 4 damages to a single system which is arguably more interesting imho that simply doing hull damage. You don't need to do a lot of damage to the hull really. It's better to take three volleys while disabling the enemy offense with the first that kill the enemy in two volleys but take the enemy's two as well.

In fact, I'd argue that the HL2 is a better weapon as it's competition (BL1, Charge Laser 1, Chain Laser 2) is much more closer in terms of efficiency, also the cost is more available.

FTL isn't a balanced game, some weapons are strictly better than others and overall better in the big picture, Flak1, BL2, Halberd Beam are such weapons while the HL2 is a bad jack-of-all-trades. Also, the HL2 is a pretty rare weapon with no ship starting with, compared to the BL2 and Halberd for instance. Meaning you have to go on your way to buy a sub-par weapon just to find if it works, or get lucky and have it offered. Makes it even less worth it.

I'd say the idea of going "full X weapon" is silly, I'd rather have something like BL1, Flak1 and Halberd Beam, all common, efficient and cheap weapons than going for a unicorn loadout that happens to be less efficient. If you want to go that route, 4x Flak1 is a better comparison than 4x BL2 as there's actually a pretty good chance to be able to field it and also just because it fires so fast it's actually worth it.

Makes sense.

Basically the hull laser is a weirder version of beam-style weapons?
does tons of damage but cant do anything that makes beams good

Despite it being 5 am. i did an ftl run with rock I and i managed to get 2 hall ones and 1 hall two, plus an ion bomb.

I got it to final phase of flagship before being ran over by boarders (all my crew died of low oxygen earlier)

[Auraplayer (Stir Crazy)]

I consider the Hull Laser weapons to be more of a niche type of weapon, and that's saying much due to it belonging to the Laser type of weapons, which should be mostly good. Due to its power requirements, a damage attribute that is useless in situations that require disabling systems, and it's overall less bang for your scrap value of a weapon compared to other Laser weapons (unless you happen to find Hull Lasers, then maybe a free HL Mk2 is better than a 80 scrap BL Mk2?), I find Hull Lasers to be inferior in many aspects compared to Burst Lasers. Unless one is trying to achieve the Living Off The Land achievement, or one is bored of using the MEWA (Most Effective Weapons Available) or one has lost his/her mind and decide to do this out of sheer insanity, one is better off using something else.

But opinions are opinions, so I see nothing wrong with Hull Lasers if one enjoys using them. As long as it can kill baddie ships with it, one could argue that the Hull Lasers, in good conditions, are nice weapons to have when one doesn't have the choice or luxury of the other weapons.

[Mike]

Even when using a "hull" weapon, you generally want to target systems. Double damage to empty rooms is mostly a useless gimmick.

There are exceptions sometimes, especially with the Hull Beam against the Flagship. On Hard it can deal 9 / 9 / 8 damage in phases 1 / 2 / 3.

Hull Laser 2 is a perfectly fine weapon. It breaks shields fine, and 30% breach chance is pretty good. Burst Laser 2 is obviously better, but you have to use what you can find.

[New Moon On Monday]

Usually, it's more important to damage systems than to do hull damage. Damaging systems is clearly something that Burst Laser II does better than Hull Laser II, in terms of speed and power efficiency.

Once the enemy's most threatening systems are damage, the enemy's remaining hull really becomes almost inconsequential. There are exceptions- you may want to jump from an environmental hazard fast as possible; or you face one of those Engi flying fortresses that are so hard to damage in the first place, then if you do damage a system, it gets repaired instantly. But most of the time, damaging the enemy's threatening systems end the battle, and destroying the hull is a formality.

Causing breaches is awesome, but breaches are most effective in rooms with systems.

The speed difference is critical. 12 seconds vs. 15 seconds will frequently decide whose volley lands first. I always want my volley to land first. Your whole volley has to slow down to the speed of its slowest weapon.

Now look at that Heavy Laser I. That's a weapon I love. 1 power, 2 damage (including systems), 9 second recharge, good chances of causing fire and/or breach.

Absent some unusual ship configuration, I'd chose Burst Laser II over Hull Laser II, and that's an easy, easy call for me.

Of course, I rarely get to make that kind of a choice in the game. Either you take what is available, or hope your current guns are good enough to get you to the next store (while hoping that you get a better selection of weapons at the next store, if the next store is even selling weapons).

[L4z3r]

While I am partial to BL MKII for obvious reasons, depending on the rest of your loadout, HL MKII can be a great weapon. Specifically if you have another good laser. You almost never target empty rooms with it, but three shots with breach chance is actually really good. And you can target empty rooms to finish off the enemy sooner