SILENT HILL 2

SILENT HILL 2

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V I D A L 10. okt. 2024 kl. 13.54
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Did they just completely censored Pyramid Head first cutscene?
How is it possible that this has Overwhelmingly Positive reviews?

https://youtube.com/shorts/RP9fG9o8Ygk?si=Q5ugGuRCJE59q29j

This was simply the most iconic moment of the game.
Sist redigert av V I D A L; 10. okt. 2024 kl. 13.55
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angstlicht 10. okt. 2024 kl. 19.35 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Nedbrytar-Yngve:
I'm not convinced PH is Sexually assaulting the mannequins in either of the games. especially since in the OG you can actually see theres no action going on.
ah the rarest gamer, 'red pyramid did nothing wrong'

it's a visual reference to blue velvet's two closet scenes. allegedly.
ExTaZzY 10. okt. 2024 kl. 19.51 
Mate why are you getting pissed off at this.. can't you just get past this and enjoy the damn game ?
Shaelent 10. okt. 2024 kl. 19.58 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Harry Scrowtem:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Clef the Mouse:

Good, because Ito confirmed it literally isn't meant to depict or suggest a sex act, and never was, lol.
https://youtu.be/V4_prwYEc_w?si=65mABTbcqGvicJWU
What was this suggesting?
Who in their right mind would admit to something like this when you have modern psychos waiting to crucify and cancel you just for saying the wrong thing nowadays?
Ito made Valtiel to, funny... I see a pattern here.
https://youtu.be/prb1zz7FiGg?si=cWkgMZNN6qJpbwhH
sick of you fake "modern fans" with your agenda, go play Dead By Daylight.
Ito also addressed that scene and quite literally said "I purposely built the motions of the 2 creatures to look like sexual. But, to be accurate, it's not "sexual" in a twitter post from 4 years ago with someone asking about it. https://x.com/adsk4/status/1263075228898390022

He's always been adamant that Pyramid Head has never been sexual in nature, his only goal was to abuse and remove visions of James torment and memories attached to Mary which is also why he was after Maria. If you took the time to research into things and actually read any of Ito's debunked theories and his mindset for creature designs and the symbolism they held then you wouldn't sit here idiotically calling everything woke agenda.
HyperCynic 10. okt. 2024 kl. 19.58 
Weird how you complain about the one aspect of the cutscene that's actually improved.

What you should be complaining about is the fact that James for whatever reason just fires 3 shots... Pyramid Head stands there looking at him unphased, does some weird arm movements and then walks away. Massively altering the entire feeling of the scene as James clearly doesn't seem all that phased by the encounter.

He ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MAG DUMPS him and continues trying to pull the trigger in the original one. That's the change that bothered me. But the entire game is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ good I kind of don't care.

I'm the kind of person who actually grew up with these games and have hated the franchise since 4... And I'M saying you're knitpicking way too much here. The change in camera angle making you fill in the blanks more, is better. You sound like the kind of person who LIKED Downpour and thinks killing a child with your barehands on screen is "edgy".

This game shows and explains too much, which is why it's not nearly as ambiguous and creepy. It's still amazingly made though, and far more faithful to the original than anything Konami has pushed since 2004. The Room wasn't supposed to even be a Silent Hill game, so don't try and tell me how amazing it was or how well it fits in the story. The story was okay at best, the gameplay was completely ruined though.

This is finally something to be proud of as a Silent Hill fan. They paid attention to every last little detail.

It's actually funny, the original devs were the ones who were pushing for more changes too, not Blooper. They wanted the game to be more like RE4 Remake. I think this blended aspects of the RE remakes with Silent Hill 2 almost perfectly. This is actually the over-the-shoulder style they wanted for SH2 in the first place as well, they just couldn't make it work this smoothly back then.

If only I could afford 93.99 CAD for a game, the price is insane here in Canadaland.
Sist redigert av HyperCynic; 10. okt. 2024 kl. 20.02
POOPER 10. okt. 2024 kl. 20.03 
I was disappointed that the monster sandwich bit was removed. That part was the highlight of the original game for me... it was very unique and shocking.
The_Hyphenator85 10. okt. 2024 kl. 20.05 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Paul:
It is just as unsettling, ambiguous and weird as in the original.
You can clearly see him spreading some wiggling legs. If you insist on your interpretation that he's raping them, despite the creator's denial, then that conclusion can still be made anyway.

It still reads that way to me, especially in the context of what we know about James and why some of the monsters appear to be weirdly and disturbingly sexualized, even in the original game.

On its face, it is exactly what Ito said; Pyramid Head is killing the Mannequin, and in his struggle to subdue it, due to the positioning and the frankly confusing anatomy involved, it takes on an uncomfortable sexual overtone, melding sex and extreme violence in a way that's very effectively disturbing. And one could argue that there are undeniable similarities between sex and violence, which is why they get so frequently conflated psychologically and culturally.

But in terms of what is factually occurring in that scene, it is purely an act of violence, yet because we are seeing it through James' eyes, it looks confusingly sexual. A scene in a work of fiction doesn't have to actually present sexual assault to be about sexual assault on a metaphorical level. And that's why this is a psychological horror game and not torture porn.
PawgaliciouS QueeN 10. okt. 2024 kl. 20.07 
Not completely, no. Besides, the og made no sense either since you can't poke your thing through a thick butcher's apron.
The_Hyphenator85 10. okt. 2024 kl. 20.18 
2
Opprinnelig skrevet av HyperCynic:
Weird how you complain about the one aspect of the cutscene that's actually improved.

What you should be complaining about is the fact that James for whatever reason just fires 3 shots... Pyramid Head stands there looking at him unphased, does some weird arm movements and then walks away. Massively altering the entire feeling of the scene as James clearly doesn't seem all that phased by the encounter.

He ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MAG DUMPS him and continues trying to pull the trigger in the original one. That's the change that bothered me. But the entire game is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ good I kind of don't care.

I actually thought this change worked; in the original, James is absolutely terrified, unloading at Pyramid Head. The fear is the main emotional focus, but there is another element; confusion. Because Pyramid Head has James dead to rights; he has nowhere to run, and his best weapon has done precisely nothing to this monster. PH doesn't even seem to CARE that James shot him. Instead, for reasons that aren't clear at that moment, he sniffs James, and then just...walks away, seemingly unconcerned by his presence or the whole incident.

In this version, James shoots him a few times to no effect, then seems to have the realization that it is doing absolutely nothing, and stops the futile attack and waits to see what will happen. Yes, what he just experienced was frightening, and he clearly is still scared, but moreover it's simply strange; why would this creature just leave him be after he assaulted it? It emphasizes the mystery of their connection, and shifts the emotional focus of the scene to confusion, to a fear of the unknown rather than a fear of mortal danger.

And James giving up rather than fighting like an adrenaline-fueled maniac emphasizes something else that's very much present in the story; his self-destructive tendencies and desire--nay, NEED--to be punished for his sins. That's a huge theme of the game, and it's what Pyramid Head ultimately represents. In a crucial moment, when all seems hopeless and James must rationally believe he is going to die...he surrenders and waits for the inevitable. But the inevitable doesn't come. The town, and by extension PH, aren't done punishing him.
Harry Scrowtem 10. okt. 2024 kl. 20.21 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Shaelent:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Harry Scrowtem:
https://youtu.be/V4_prwYEc_w?si=65mABTbcqGvicJWU
What was this suggesting?
Who in their right mind would admit to something like this when you have modern psychos waiting to crucify and cancel you just for saying the wrong thing nowadays?
Ito made Valtiel to, funny... I see a pattern here.
https://youtu.be/prb1zz7FiGg?si=cWkgMZNN6qJpbwhH
sick of you fake "modern fans" with your agenda, go play Dead By Daylight.
Ito also addressed that scene and quite literally said "I purposely built the motions of the 2 creatures to look like sexual. But, to be accurate, it's not "sexual" in a twitter post from 4 years ago with someone asking about it. https://x.com/adsk4/status/1263075228898390022

He's always been adamant that Pyramid Head has never been sexual in nature, his only goal was to abuse and remove visions of James torment and memories attached to Mary which is also why he was after Maria. If you took the time to research into things and actually read any of Ito's debunked theories and his mindset for creature designs and the symbolism they held then you wouldn't sit here idiotically calling everything woke agenda.
I never even said anything about a woke agenda and you're using Ito to deflect criticism about this, much in the same way bloober did by hiring him. Obviously he wasn't penetrating them (the game would have been banned) but a sexual assault was being depicted (manifestation or not).
Just look at what that scene was inspired by or any of the other things which inspired Ito and Team Silent.
https://youtu.be/xsIMXIMBpBw?si=xT66gDQ0zT4j_TN6
Many if not most of the inspirations all had pretty disturbing sexual undertones...
Shaelent 10. okt. 2024 kl. 20.31 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Harry Scrowtem:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Shaelent:
Ito also addressed that scene and quite literally said "I purposely built the motions of the 2 creatures to look like sexual. But, to be accurate, it's not "sexual" in a twitter post from 4 years ago with someone asking about it. https://x.com/adsk4/status/1263075228898390022

He's always been adamant that Pyramid Head has never been sexual in nature, his only goal was to abuse and remove visions of James torment and memories attached to Mary which is also why he was after Maria. If you took the time to research into things and actually read any of Ito's debunked theories and his mindset for creature designs and the symbolism they held then you wouldn't sit here idiotically calling everything woke agenda.
I never even said anything about a woke agenda and you're using Ito to deflect criticism about this, much in the same way bloober did by hiring him. Obviously he wasn't penetrating them (the game would have been banned) but a sexual assault was being depicted (manifestation or not).
Just look at what that scene was inspired by or any of the other things which inspired Ito and Team Silent.
https://youtu.be/xsIMXIMBpBw?si=xT66gDQ0zT4j_TN6
Many if not most of the inspirations all had pretty disturbing sexual undertones...
Using Ito here is a valid argument because he has, for the past many years, explicitly always stated that none of the scenes were rape or sexual assault and he never intended for the BH nurses to be interpreted sexually because of people claiming they represent James sexual frustration.

Ito is the one that designed all the creatures and their meanings, the premise of the game is that its a psychological horror so of course they would use sexual undertones to mess with your brain when that's not the reality of what is going on.

All of this rape/sexual assault/sexual frustation theories specifically came from SH fans and their own headcanons and without fact checking, everyone just passed that information around as canon which irritates Ito and sets a false expectation for the scenes where what they thought existed was never real in the first place.
Remyy 10. okt. 2024 kl. 20.42 
dude is pressed about not seeing pyramid head wiggle in front of some leg mannequins in 8K HD for a few seconds
Homie is sad he can't get off to that scene anymore. womp womp
Gigantoad 10. okt. 2024 kl. 20.47 
Looked fine to me. There was no doubt what was going on.
Sean8102 10. okt. 2024 kl. 20.52 
Opprinnelig skrevet av altruistic:
You can be mad about the “change” but the guy who literally created the scene has already addressed it :

https://x.com/adsk4/status/1263050285062094848?s=46

You gonna tell the artist that you know more than them about their creation?

Masahiro Ito is great. What I love even more is his response to someone asking "Well what dose it mean then?"

https://i.imgur.com/VKE3ycR.png
The_Hyphenator85 10. okt. 2024 kl. 20.53 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Shaelent:
Using Ito here is a valid argument because he has, for the past many years, explicitly always stated that none of the scenes were rape or sexual assault and he never intended for the BH nurses to be interpreted sexually because of people claiming they represent James sexual frustration.

Ito is the one that designed all the creatures and their meanings, the premise of the game is that its a psychological horror so of course they would use sexual undertones to mess with your brain when that's not the reality of what is going on.

All of this rape/sexual assault/sexual frustation theories specifically came from SH fans and their own headcanons and without fact checking, everyone just passed that information around as canon which irritates Ito and sets a false expectation for the scenes where what they thought existed was never real in the first place.

While that's true, it's also true that part of art is that its meaning is open to interpretation. Once it leaves the artist's hands, whatever their original intent, its meaning is added to by what the audience find within it. That's why art is engaging; without that layer of interaction, interpretation and exploration, it's just entertainment.

And Ito is far from the only artist whose work has taken on connotations they didn't necessarily intend. Ray Bradbury maintained until his dying day that Fahrenheit 451 was not about censorship, it was about what happened to a society that was coddled, softened and brainwashed by technology, especially passive entertainment mediums like television. The film version of The Wizard of Oz was never intended to be any kind of gay awakening allegory, but generations of gay people have interpreted it that way to the point where it's become an iconic film for that community and Judy Garland has become similarly iconic. Upton Sinclair didn't intend for The Jungle to be read as a condemnation of lax safety practices in corporate food production; he wrote it as an anti-capitalist polemic. But the depiction of the disgusting practices of the food industry overrode his intended point to such an extent that it paved the way for what would eventually become the FDA.

I'm not discounting what Ito said his intent was, or even trying to argue that the Pyramid Head intro scene was neutered in the Remake (far from it, I like the direction they took it in). But Ito and the other developers' intent also isn't the be-all and end-all for what that scene or other elements of Silent Hill 2 mean, it just clarifies what he meant to put into the work.
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