I really disliked the new James Sunderland

[H.E.C.U soldier]

It's true that the graphics and atmosphere are superior. I really like this remake. However, there is one compartment that the game suffers in. Character development. And it has to do with voice acting direction as well. While I admired the performance of the characters like Maria, Mary and Laura, I think the rest of the characters are bad. Mainly male ones this time. Why? They lack emotions. They are very depressed and lifeless. Not to mention my favourite dialogues from the original game were all cut, which is sad because most of them are the same, but the vital ones which question James's actions are completely cut, like his speech after confrontation with Eddie in refrigerator room and Angela in fire room or his argument with Mary's doctor, all cut!

Original voice actors showed a lot of emotions. James Sunderland, the main character suffers most from it, the way he is written in this game is very odd. Examples, he punches Eddie in the face, he is calm all the time, and when Angela asks if he's keeping knife for himself he says nothing at all, whereas in original he said "me? No, I..... I would never kill myself." I liked that a lot, because original James was that confused and lost guy, but still human. His deeds justified his behaviour in the original completely. That James' Magic was lost completely in the remake, which is very unfortunate. The actor is so boring, and he makes the character extremely boring too. This is suprising, that the main character is the most boring and poorly written one. But other that that it's a very good remake. It's just that the protagonist is completely different.


I suppose it's a matter of seeing difference of characters through the tone of voice and emotion put into it which I didn't see in the remake, I saw and heard a noticable difference and obviously I can't demonstrate it with lines of text but I can make a comparison to better picture it for your imagination, what I mean:

Original James character: "I am really motivated to see Mary again, it's very important to me. I would do anything to be with her again, I'm confused though, and shocked because of what happened to me, I have to make it right"
Which he even says in the story. And he has enough charisma to prove that he does actually care.

Remake James character: "I am a very depressed, lazy, boring guy, who is on anti-depressants and has dulled emotions because of it and me being a sad, pathetic person. I will talk very quiet and in the same tone all the time. Truth be told I just don't care, I will go through the story because I have to."
I could not share the story with this James because of it. He was sapped of all energy, spirit and emotions, tired all the time. I'm not blaming the actor himself, it may seem like I'm blaming his work, no, I meant the narrative direction of this character.

[H.E.C.U soldier]

Postat inițial de Shaelent:

Postat inițial de HECUsoldier:

You said you were too lazy to read the original post which is the main point for the discussion. Which makes you uninformed, yet you are still making an opinion, besides am I meant to agree with others different opinions? I can but I don't have to, that's the point of a discussion. I would not bother making this topic if I expected everyone to agree with me. But it's hard to treat someone seriously if one's making an opinion without familiarizing oneself with the subject, that is very silly.

I said I didn't care not that I was too lazy to read lol, and you know why I didn't care? Because you contradicted yourself in the first paragraph. Depression and lifeless are emotions that are valid in media to show a character and their development throughout the story. And making the assumption I am uninformed is an egocentric take, you never bothered to ask anyone about their thoughts on voice acting and instead made paragraphs in which what do you want us to do? Make a rebuttal for it? You're not going to pull some burden or proof fallacy on all of us.

Oh I didn't know you were making some group gathering against me to disprove my points. Good to know. That is actually what I expected, that people would present their own arguements which would disprove mine, then I would say "Oh you're right, perhaps I wasn't right and I was mistaken about this and that, that gives new insight into the whole thing", but that didn't happen yet. Spend more time giving good counter-arguments instead of calling me silly and that will be more productive to the whole discussion. Being lifeless is an emotion huh? Interesting take on this, you would need to explain further how can being lifeless is an emotion. To me this new James is very boring, constant still emotion which is always the same even if he has them. No character development, he is the same all the time, no changes, no different takes on his actions, nothing. Whereas in the original there were multiple times he changed and he doubted his actions, and raised his voice many times, he was concerned. He acted like a real human being. They even cut the part after confrontation with Eddie in which he speaks originally, he says ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nothing now! I could go on and on.

[H.E.C.U soldier]

I've changed the main post slightly because people were confused and thought I meant voice actors themselves. I hope this clears any doubts finally.

[Shaelent]

Postat inițial de HECUsoldier:

Postat inițial de Shaelent:

I said I didn't care not that I was too lazy to read lol, and you know why I didn't care? Because you contradicted yourself in the first paragraph. Depression and lifeless are emotions that are valid in media to show a character and their development throughout the story. And making the assumption I am uninformed is an egocentric take, you never bothered to ask anyone about their thoughts on voice acting and instead made paragraphs in which what do you want us to do? Make a rebuttal for it? You're not going to pull some burden or proof fallacy on all of us.

Oh I didn't know you were making some group gathering against me to disprove my points. Good to know. That is actually what I expected, that people would present their own arguements which would disprove mine, then I would say "Oh you're right, perhaps I wasn't right and I was mistaken about this and that, that gives new insight into the whole thing", but that didn't happen yet. Spend more time giving good counter-arguments instead of calling me silly and that will be more productive to the whole discussion. Being lifeless is an emotion huh? Interesting take on this, you would need to explain further how can being lifeless is an emotion. To me this new James is very boring, constant still emotion which is always the same even if he has them. No character development, he is the same all the time, no changes, no different takes on his actions, nothing. Whereas in the original there were multiple times he changed and he doubted his actions, and raised his voice many times, he was concerned. He acted like a real human being. They even cut the part after confrontation with Eddie in which he speaks originally, he says ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nothing now! I could go on and on.

You are the one who made the entire post expecting people to argue against you so you can be "proven wrong" about your own personal opinion of the voice acting:

Postat inițial de HECUsoldier:

I want a discussion here, people can oppose me with fair arguments, it's like a debate whether I'm right or wrong, if you are done, then that means I'm right, because you did not even present any arguements to prove the contrary.

And every other post before I contributed has you reacting negatively to people responding to said post which shows you are not actually receptive to 'debates' as you so kindly put it. There is literally no point to this because people have their OWN subjective views as to why they think the voice acting is good or bad. You aren't asking for people's thoughts you just wanted to incite a flame war so you can pat yourself on the back.

And even with people disagreeing with you it seems that didn't go well as you're obviously not open to other peoples views of the acting:

Postat inițial de JocularJosh:

Postat inițial de HECUsoldier:

I want a discussion here, people can oppose me with fair arguments, it's like a debate whether I'm right or wrong, if you are done, then that means I'm right, because you did not even present any arguements to prove the contrary.

I tried arguing with you in that other thread but all you said was that the new VA for james is "boring, boring" and "booooooring". Even compared him to squidward which is childish at best.

The very fact that you even talk about being right or wrong and emphasizing on being right is worrying. You are not here to discuss, you are here to "win".

Have fun man. The VA for James in the remake (Luke) is amazing. There is a reason he got nominated for best VA this year. You can keep on playing the original.

This is clearly another one of these obnoxious posts where you feel like you're the only one in the right instead of acknowledging that your opinion is not factual and it isn't other peoples responsibility to refute and try change your mind on something you're set in stone with.

I've had my point proven as to why I shouldn't care because you've acted exactly how I expected you would. Anyway toodles, hopefully next time you engage in a discussion board you're receptive and open to other peoples comments.

[H.E.C.U soldier]

Anyways like I said, it seems it's some sort of petty crime to you people if I dislike a voice actor's performance these days, but that's not what I even meant in the first place. That's why I changed the main topic slightly so that is understood, that I did not even mean the voice actor himself in the first place but character of James Sunderland in the original game and the remake. That's what I wanted to talk about in the first place not about the voice actor. People can get so confused if it's not explained very well. I've learned my lesson.

[Bankai9212]

Postat inițial de HECUsoldier:

Postat inițial de Bankai9212:

Supporting? If I had to pick between the OG and the remake I'd stick with the OG. Unlike you the changes they made don't effect me that much. But at the end of the day its preference.

What arguments? Both versions have strengths and weaknesses remakes sticks out more for me anyway.

Listen if you keep trying to project words onto me I'll report you simple as that.

When you start threatening other people with canceling them, then you have lost all the credibility, also you prove that guy was right.

I made a warning to a person making baseless claims at me and if you read anything that person wrote they aren’t interested in discussion just how the remake isn’t like the original.

[WakkaBlitzBallChamp]

TLDR. I stopped at "They lack emotions. They are very depressed and lifeless." You described the mental state of James Sunderland and proceeded further to only contradict yourself with this very statement. James IS "depressed and lifeless" because of what he has done.

[H.E.C.U soldier]

Postat inițial de WakkaBlitzBallChamp:

TLDR. I stopped at "They lack emotions. They are very depressed and lifeless." You described the mental state of James Sunderland and proceeded further to only contradict yourself with this very statement. James IS "depressed and lifeless" because of what he has done.

So what does it matter? the characters are meant to drive the story forward with intent of making player interested. If he is so boring then the player will not be invested in what he feels and has to go through. In original Silent Hill 2 James was depressed as well but he had enough will and motivation driving him forward to find Mary unlike his remake counterpart.

[Bankai9212]

Correction "you" find him boring to not worth investing. The point of the opening is a layer of mystery to it all. You seem to thing the OG version is when in some cases its worst barring a few key scenes. For context not even the original va's had much directions for the lines either.

[JocularJosh]

Postat inițial de HECUsoldier:

Postat inițial de WakkaBlitzBallChamp:

TLDR. I stopped at "They lack emotions. They are very depressed and lifeless." You described the mental state of James Sunderland and proceeded further to only contradict yourself with this very statement. James IS "depressed and lifeless" because of what he has done.

So what does it matter? the characters are meant to drive the story forward with intent of making player interested. If he is so boring then the player will not be invested in what he feels and has to go through. In original Silent Hill 2 James was depressed as well but he had enough will and motivation driving him forward to find Mary unlike his remake counterpart.

We must have played different games then, cause I'm pretty sure he wants to find her in this game as well.

[H.E.C.U soldier]

I'm not talking about the goal and whether it's realised or not, but the character's motivation towards it. Remember the scene at the very beginning when James is looking at the mirror in that bathroom before he reads a letter from Mary? Well, in the original version the scene is the same and the character behaves the same, lifeless and depressed, but in the remake he's like that till the end of the game as if creators thought that he is meant to be like that all the time as if they forgotten that he can have dimensions and depth.

Well, I don't want to spoil but Silent Hill touches many aspects like sins and immoral things, example is Angela and her father abusive relation, murder, lust etc.
Well in the original version it's even much more evident and present thanks to James's questioning his own moral code. Yes that is what I mainly miss from the original and these were my favourite moments, I will try avoiding spoiling anything who will read but like when James said "me? No, I..... I would never kill myself." or "I killed a human being, a human being...." which is connected to some events you probably know and added a lot of depth to the character. Remember the scene with the doctor when James talks to him and lashes at him angrily for not being able to help Mary? I bet most of you didn't even know about such scenes in the game. Yeah, they cut all of it, all my favourite scenes which ironically I remembered the most from the game and all about James and adding to his character, I was very dissapointed.

[Bankai9212]

He was like that in the original also what indication from the original highlights he isn't depressed again the hammy dialog isn't it. Both version they are looking to see if Mary is actually in silent hill or not. Also what changes in James behavior in the original? Pretty sure its the same as it is in remake.

What Moral code are you talking about, the whole story is how guilt can effect a person. Plus when he said that it was without knowing what he did. Plus this is ignoring one of the ending the player can get.

The message can be easily missed in the original as well.

[H.E.C.U soldier]

Postat inițial de Bankai9212:

He was like that in the original also what indication from the original highlights he isn't depressed again the hammy dialog isn't it. Both version they are looking to see if Mary is actually in silent hill or not. Also what changes in James behavior in the original? Pretty sure its the same as it is in remake.

What Moral code are you talking about, the whole story is how guilt can effect a person. Plus when he said that it was without knowing what he did. Plus this is ignoring one of the ending the player can get.

The message can be easily missed in the original as well.

I meant James morals because of what he did and how he has to deal with it, he has regret and guilt that's his morals. What changes in behavior, I don't want to repeat myself again, I'm getting tired from repeating same things over and over again. The James from original games is like a completely different character in comparison to his remake counterpart. He gets angry, sad, shocked in many scenes which many of the don't even appear in the remake. All emotions a human being should have. Also it's important for character to be fun to get to know to, not only explain him psychologically.

[Bankai9212]

Okay this is reflected in the remake as well, how is it framed differently? You repeat yourself because you don't explain how its different both characters are depressed throughout the game what makes OG different? How do you get to know James better in the OG compared to the remake?

You can't seem to answer these questions because outside of line delivery at certain points its the same. So with knowing how the narrative in the remake plays out you find James boring now.

Also pretty sure James get angry and sad in the remake again boils down to delivery which again the original isn't amazing either only a few select lines.

[H.E.C.U soldier]

Postat inițial de Bankai9212:

Okay this is reflected in the remake as well, how is it framed differently? You repeat yourself because you don't explain how its different both characters are depressed throughout the game what makes OG different? How do you get to know James better in the OG compared to the remake?

You can't seem to answer these questions because outside of line delivery at certain points its the same. So with knowing how the narrative in the remake plays out you find James boring now.

Also pretty sure James get angry and sad in the remake again boils down to delivery which again the original isn't amazing either only a few select lines.

Also no one mentioned the slight humor the games had. They weren't entirely depressing. Like in second game the scene in bowling alley which was swapped with theatre in remake. James says to Eddie "This town is full of monsters how can you sit there and eat pizza" that was actually funny and a short break from horrors of the town but subtle. And in Silent Hill 3 even Heather had a sense of humor too, she says: "I don't know, don't you think Blondes have more fun?" See? They weren't all bland like you all say the should be.

[Bankai9212]

The humor came with the actors line delivery in the same vein as resident evil 1 doesn't make the humor intentional since again they weren't given direction and rarely recorded with other actors in the same room. Silent Hill 3 is different from this along with again context and direction of the scene.

It's known silent hill 2 is full of cheesy lines doesn't mean it's intended to be humorous. The tone of the entire game is grey if anything they stick out more in terms of tone.