Jacob Geller makes great videos

[phildor]

Just want to put something positive in an OP about JG.

He makes really great video essays. Like, the kind where you can find a theme that interests you, and come away with a list of four or five new games to check out.

Reducing him to a "DEI consultant" who hates "gamers" is reductionist nonsense. It's a reactionary's depiction of a dude who obviously loves video games, plays a ton of them, and has a knack for putting into his own words how he thinks and feels about them.

I'm not saying you have to like the dude, or that you owe him any of your attention. But letting your opinion of the guy be molded by these lazy, angry people is the opposite of free thinking. So, maybe check out a video for yourself and form your own opinion.

[Sunsetter]

He does.
That doesnt stop him from being a DEI consultant who hates gamers.

[phildor]

Originally posted by Samael:

He does.
That doesnt stop him from being a DEI consultant who hates gamers.

Well, the first part of that's not true in any literal sense, beyond folks who use the term DEI as some sort of catch-all buzzword, and apply it in a sort of broad and freewheeling way.

And the second is a joke, the kind of joke that would only piss off... exactly the kind of folks it pissed off. I play games all the time, and it didn't bother me.

[PMA Riddler]

You are quite right, the irony is that it is the same people who rail against "cancel culture" that are now trying to cancel someone for his political views.

[Sunsetter]

He did consult. The consulting was ideological in nature. How you choose to call it is irrelevant.

Its within the realm of possibility that it's a just a joke, but people with his ideological leanings go mask off every day now (especially in the gaming industry) about what they think about gamers. I'd be shocked if he doesnt share those views as well.

[Sunsetter]

Originally posted by PMA Riddler:

Originally posted by Samael:

He did consult. The consulting was ideological in nature. How you choose to call it is irrelevant.

Its withing the real of possibility that it's a just, but people with his ideological leanings go mask off every day now (especially in the gaming industry) about what they think about gamers. I'd be shocked if he doesnt share those views as well.

How do you know what his consulting was about? Did you work on the project?

Studios have their own writers. If they hire consulting groups (which they also did here) or individuals, its to do ideology, not creativity. The fact he chooses to keep quiet about the nature of his involvement further reinforces that; he doesnt want the drama and the attacks.

[Sunsetter]

Originally posted by PMA Riddler:

Originally posted by Samael:

Studios have their own writers. If they hire consulting groups (which they also did here) or individuals, its to do ideology, not creativity. The fact he chooses to keep quiet about the nature of his involvement further reinforces that; he doesnt want the drama and the attacks.

So it is just an assumption on your part? Just because you have writers of your own doesn't mean input from others can't be valuable and having played the game I really did not find anything I would consider "woke".

Oh I have no doubt they found it valuable. Speaking of, is there anything you would consider woke? No in this game, but in general.

[Sammarok-GoodGaming]

Originally posted by phildor:

But letting your opinion of the guy be molded by these lazy, angry people is the opposite of free thinking. So, maybe check out a video for yourself and form your own opinion.

He is the one that posted on X that the world would be better without gamers, in these forums we are all gamers, you included OP.

[phildor]

Irrelevant? You yourself agreed that he makes great YouTube videos. We literally have a body of evidence that shows what he can offer in a consulting capacity.

Also, I would ask that you show some sort of proof that his consulting was purely "ideological in nature." I'm glad that you're engaging in this conversation, so we can air out these preconceptions.

More as an aside, rather than something genuinely constructive to the conversation: I think it's kind of funny that you would even apply the term "mask off" to anyone who shows a distaste for the things that I perceive Jacob Geller to dislike in human nature. I use that sort of vague target, because I'm not trying to load up the conversation with buzzwords, and you're not pointing to anything specific.

[Sunsetter]

Originally posted by phildor:

Irrelevant? You yourself agreed that he makes great YouTube videos. We literally have a body of evidence that shows what he can offer in a consulting capacity.

Also, I would ask that you show some sort of proof that his consulting was purely "ideological in nature." I'm glad that you're engaging in this conversation, so we can air out these preconceptions.

More as an aside, rather than something genuinely constructive to the conversation: I think it's kind of funny that you would even apply the term "mask off" to anyone who shows a distaste for the things that I perceive Jacob Geller to dislike in human nature. I use that sort of vague target, because I'm not trying to load up the conversation with buzzwords, and you're not pointing to anything specific.

Again, devs have their own writers. And this is a remake of an already written game. Do you really think they needed outside consulting on any standard narrative element, or those for "modern audiences".
And again, why keep quiet about it?

Originally posted by PMA Riddler:

Originally posted by Samael:

Oh I have no doubt they found it valuable. Speaking of, is there anything you would consider woke? No in this game, but in general.

If they had race swapped Maria to a black woman and Mary to an asian woman for the sake of diversity you might have had a point. There is none of that here however, the remake is quite faithful to the original.

Well, we agree on something at least.

[phildor]

Originally posted by Sammarok-GoodGaming:

Originally posted by phildor:

But letting your opinion of the guy be molded by these lazy, angry people is the opposite of free thinking. So, maybe check out a video for yourself and form your own opinion.

He is the one that posted on X that the world would be better without gamers, in these forums we are all gamers, you included OP.

You know how people are always saying that you couldn't make Blazing Saddles today, because everyone gets offended by everything? That, supposedly, back in the day people could hear a joke about themselves and realize it was a joke- they didn't take it personally. Why does Mel Brooks get a pass where Jacob Geller does not?

On the other hand, you could suppose that Geller is delineating between "people who play video games" and "gamers," as a sort of cultural distinction. Which, you know, I kind of subscribe to that opinion, given that the dude is clearly a part of the first group. And I think we can all agree that he might have some thoughts on the second group. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. The guy plays games. You just don't like some of the things he says about them.

[phildor]

Originally posted by Samael:

Again, devs have their own writers. And this is a remake of an already written game. Do you really think they needed outside consulting on any standard narrative element, or those for "modern audiences".
And again, why keep quiet about it?

Of course they would want outside consulting. Like, that cannot be the basis of your evidence- The idea that they surely would not need outside consulting for the narrative.

You're acting like this is an up-res or a remaster. This is a significant reworking- new VA, rehashed character designs, a longer game with more locations, revamped puzzles. And it's a remake of a dearly beloved game. The stakes were extremely high. Getting it right was very important. Bringing on board the thoughts and expertise of anyone that they thought could help them fulfill the promise of SH2R obviously mattered to them. Bloober is a relatively small developer. And I think it shows great regard for the IP itself, and the fans of the original game, that they wanted to ensure they got it right.

[Sunsetter]

Originally posted by phildor:

Originally posted by Samael:

Again, devs have their own writers. And this is a remake of an already written game. Do you really think they needed outside consulting on any standard narrative element, or those for "modern audiences".
And again, why keep quiet about it?

Of course they would want outside consulting. Like, that cannot be the basis of your evidence- The idea that they surely would not need outside consulting for the narrative.

You're acting like this is an up-res or a remaster. This is a significant reworking- new VA, rehashed character designs, a longer game with more locations, revamped puzzles. And it's a remake of a dearly beloved game. The stakes were extremely high. Getting it right was very important. Bringing on board the thoughts and expertise of anyone that they thought could help them fulfill the promise of SH2R obviously mattered to them. Bloober is a relatively small developer. And I think it shows great regard for the IP itself, and the fans of the original game, that they wanted to ensure they got it right.

And those few differences were so complex they needed outside consult?
Further more, if the stakes are so high, why risk that by "modernizing" the game and hiring consulting groups that incur a lot of negative reactions? Why not stick to the original as close as possible? That way everyone's happy and you dont need outside consult.
But hell, lets forget all that.
Do you think it's possible, at all possible, that a game being advertised for "modern audiences" would have ideological consulting used?

[PMA Riddler]

Originally posted by Samael:

Originally posted by phildor:

Of course they would want outside consulting. Like, that cannot be the basis of your evidence- The idea that they surely would not need outside consulting for the narrative.

You're acting like this is an up-res or a remaster. This is a significant reworking- new VA, rehashed character designs, a longer game with more locations, revamped puzzles. And it's a remake of a dearly beloved game. The stakes were extremely high. Getting it right was very important. Bringing on board the thoughts and expertise of anyone that they thought could help them fulfill the promise of SH2R obviously mattered to them. Bloober is a relatively small developer. And I think it shows great regard for the IP itself, and the fans of the original game, that they wanted to ensure they got it right.

And those few differences were so complex they needed outside consult?
Further more, if the stakes are so high, why risk that by "modernizing" the game and hiring consulting groups that incur a lot of negative reactions? Why not stick to the original as close as possible? That way everyone's happy and you dont need outside consult.
But hell, lets forget all that.
Do you think it's possible, at all possible, that a game being advertised for "modern audiences" would have ideological consulting used?

They did stick close to the original, what do you mean? Again if they did a bunch of race swaps etc you might have had a point but there really is none of that here.

[Sunsetter]

Originally posted by PMA Riddler:

Originally posted by Samael:

And those few differences were so complex they needed outside consult?
Further more, if the stakes are so high, why risk that by "modernizing" the game and hiring consulting groups that incur a lot of negative reactions? Why not stick to the original as close as possible? That way everyone's happy and you dont need outside consult.
But hell, lets forget all that.
Do you think it's possible, at all possible, that a game being advertised for "modern audiences" would have ideological consulting used?

They did stick close to the original, what do you mean? Again if they did a bunch of race swaps etc you might have had a point but there really is none of that here.

So did they stick to the original or are there so many differences that they needed outside consulting on? Which is it?

[phildor]

Originally posted by Samael:

And those few differences were so complex they needed outside consult?
Further more, if the stakes are so high, why risk that by "modernizing" the game and hiring consulting groups that incur a lot of negative reactions? Why not stick to the original as close as possible? That way everyone's happy and you dont need outside consult.
But hell, lets forget all that.
Do you think it's possible, at all possible, that a game being advertised for "modern audiences" would have ideological consulting used?

*gestures at the review score*
I'm not seeing a lot of negative reactions incurred. I think the kind of people that focus on this stuff incessantly are focusing on it, incessantly. And I think that the tremendously positive reaction to SH2R stands as a sort of refutation of that ideological battle.

And not even because it was intended to be a refutation. But because, despite the game being loaded up with all the things that you are claiming it's loaded up with, it's successful anyway.

As for your take on game dev and remakes, the game is a success. And they did all of these things that you said shouldn't be necessary for it to be a success. So maybe you should re-examine your prior assumptions. Game dev isn't easy, even and especially if you are remaking a beloved game from 23 years ago.