Laura leaving with james

[icon_of_sin]

Is laura leaving with james in the "leave" ending supposed to be symbolic of james coming to terms with what brought him to silent hill.

[80TCS]

Laura is James's symbol/manifestation of innocence, her leaving town with him meant that he came to terms with what he'd done and decided that his actions were moral, justified and forgivable given the circumstances. He basically considered that he'd ended his wife's suffering and that was what she'd wanted anyways and she'd forgave him, thus he's innocent. Laura is seen drawing a happy Mary at the end, meaning that Mary had found her peace as well.. (well, in this version of James's imagination that is.. there is no objective, real known fact/s about the real world and people other than through James's own view)

Maria leaving with him symbolizes that he's not considering himself innocent, nor his actions were moral or justifiable, but his wife's illness was not his cross to carry and she owed him freedom and and a future with an unburdened conscience.

[Smufius]

80TCS a écrit :

Laura is James's symbol/manifestation of innocence, her leaving town with him meant that he came to terms with what he'd done and decided that his actions were moral, justified and forgivable given the circumstances. He basically considered that he'd ended his wife's suffering and that was what she'd wanted anyways and she'd forgave him, thus he's innocent. Laura is seen drawing a happy Mary at the end, meaning that Mary had found her peace as well.. (well, in this version of James's imagination that is.. there is no objective, real known fact/s about the real world and people other than through James's own view)

Maria leaving with him symbolizes that he's not considering himself innocent, nor his actions were moral or justifiable, but his wife's illness was not his cross to carry and she owed him freedom and and a future with an unburdened conscience.

JFC she is not a manifestation. She is Mary's friend who came to town with Eddie. She's seen in the OG intro interacting with Eddie which manifestations wouldn't be able to do. That's why Laura never aknowledges Maria's presence either. She's not real to her. She's a normal kid. This theory has been debunked since 2001 over and over again and people still repeat it.

[Noobie]

80TCS a écrit :

Laura is James's symbol/manifestation of innocence, her leaving town with him meant that he came to terms with what he'd done and decided that his actions were moral, justified and forgivable given the circumstances. He basically considered that he'd ended his wife's suffering and that was what she'd wanted anyways and she'd forgave him, thus he's innocent. Laura is seen drawing a happy Mary at the end, meaning that Mary had found her peace as well.. (well, in this version of James's imagination that is.. there is no objective, real known fact/s about the real world and people other than through James's own view)

Maria leaving with him symbolizes that he's not considering himself innocent, nor his actions were moral or justifiable, but his wife's illness was not his cross to carry and she owed him freedom and and a future with an unburdened conscience.

Shes not a manifestation at all. She symbolizes nothing with james. Laura is a real girl. Laura is real. She has been stated to be real. She sees nothing because as a child she is innocent and hasnt done anything to warrant any regret at all. Theorize all you want. Laura is a real person. James leaving with laura would more be a sign of james keeping marrys legacy and her desires with him. Again LAURA IS A REAL HUMAN BEING AND SYMBOLIZES NOTHING TO JAMES

[80TCS]

Noobie a écrit :

She sees nothing because as a child she is innocent and hasnt done anything to warrant any regret at all.

Well, she did stepped on James's hand.. And drew him as a big bad wolf..

Other than this, I wasn't aware of any statement that she was a real person.. Or that she'd interacted with Eddie in the og..

I guess it would make sense why James is still in the fog world in that ending..

ALTHO.. I know you don't want me to theorize, but.. Just make this one make sense..
How would a real person be compatible with the infinite cycles / time loop theory.. ?

[80TCS]

Smufius a écrit :

80TCS a écrit :

Laura is James's symbol/manifestation of innocence, her leaving town with him meant that he came to terms with what he'd done and decided that his actions were moral, justified and forgivable given the circumstances. He basically considered that he'd ended his wife's suffering and that was what she'd wanted anyways and she'd forgave him, thus he's innocent. Laura is seen drawing a happy Mary at the end, meaning that Mary had found her peace as well.. (well, in this version of James's imagination that is.. there is no objective, real known fact/s about the real world and people other than through James's own view)

Maria leaving with him symbolizes that he's not considering himself innocent, nor his actions were moral or justifiable, but his wife's illness was not his cross to carry and she owed him freedom and and a future with an unburdened conscience.

JFC she is not a manifestation. She is Mary's friend who came to town with Eddie. She's seen in the OG intro interacting with Eddie which manifestations wouldn't be able to do. That's why Laura never aknowledges Maria's presence either. She's not real to her. She's a normal kid. This theory has been debunked since 2001 over and over again and people still repeat it.

Same question to you ^^..

Let's also just take the time to acknowledge that this is a remake and with this remake some things have changed..

[80TCS]

Moreover, it is apparent that the worlds of the trapped characters can to various degrees interact/influence each other.. so, idk..

[Noobie]

80TCS a écrit :

Noobie a écrit :

She sees nothing because as a child she is innocent and hasnt done anything to warrant any regret at all.

Well, she did stepped on James's hand.. And drew him as a big bad wolf..

Other than this, I wasn't aware of any statement that she was a real person.. Or that she'd interacted with Eddie in the og..

I guess it would make sense why James is still in the fog world in that ending..

ALTHO.. I know you don't want me to theorize, but.. Just make this one make sense..
How would a real person be compatible with the infinite cycles / time loop theory.. ?

Because the time loop theory is just that. A theory. It isnt considered the true outcome of Silent Hill 2 to be an endless loop. That is just a theory that Bloober team added because it was a theory some players had based one 2 of the ending's being Maria and The ritual endings. In the maria ending maria who we know isnt real starts coughing hinting that she will soon die as well showing james learned nothing. The ritual ending james tries to bring Marry back from death using dark magic which could also lead to him learning nothing and also possibly ending right back to square one. In water and leave both show definitive ends to james story. The new endings are also just elaborating on themes. The dead bodies all looking like james to the player is a 4th wall break related thing. WE see ever single body as james with few exceptions while James NEVER sees any body as himself. Eddy saying "how many times do i have to kill you" is because he constantly sees his bully in his otherworld and keeps killing them over and over. Angela doesnt deserve to be punished she deserves to be healed so her being stuck in a loop would actually degrade her story completely and Laura being confirmed 100 percent to be real by her interactions with eddie meanwhile NO ONE except james interacts with maria. The loop theory is just a theory and the existence of Laura, the themes of Angela's story, and the nature of the town disprove the theory because thats not how the town works. It doesnt trap people in an endless tormenting loop. Its more like a Saw deathtrap. You CAN get through it and change.

[V I D A L]

No. It symbolizes you, as a player, played the game wrong.

[80TCS]

Noobie a écrit :

80TCS a écrit :

Well, she did stepped on James's hand.. And drew him as a big bad wolf..

Other than this, I wasn't aware of any statement that she was a real person.. Or that she'd interacted with Eddie in the og..

I guess it would make sense why James is still in the fog world in that ending..

ALTHO.. I know you don't want me to theorize, but.. Just make this one make sense..
How would a real person be compatible with the infinite cycles / time loop theory.. ?

Because the time loop theory is just that. A theory. It isnt considered the true outcome of Silent Hill 2 to be an endless loop. That is just a theory that Bloober team added because it was a theory some players had based one 2 of the ending's being Maria and The ritual endings. In the maria ending maria who we know isnt real starts coughing hinting that she will soon die as well showing james learned nothing. The ritual ending james tries to bring Marry back from death using dark magic which could also lead to him learning nothing and also possibly ending right back to square one. In water and leave both show definitive ends to james story. The new endings are also just elaborating on themes. The dead bodies all looking like james to the player is a 4th wall break related thing. WE see ever single body as james with few exceptions while James NEVER sees any body as himself. Eddy saying "how many times do i have to kill you" is because he constantly sees his bully in his otherworld and keeps killing them over and over. Angela doesnt deserve to be punished she deserves to be healed so her being stuck in a loop would actually degrade her story completely and Laura being confirmed 100 percent to be real by her interactions with eddie meanwhile NO ONE except james interacts with maria. The loop theory is just a theory and the existence of Laura, the themes of Angela's story, and the nature of the town disprove the theory because thats not how the town works. It doesnt trap people in an endless tormenting loop. Its more like a Saw deathtrap. You CAN get through it and change.

Ok, so other than in the og Laura apparently coming to town with Eddie.. (?) if that's what it reaaly is.. (white van that's at the start of the game I'll take it.. ?) and she didn't just met with him in Silent hill right there at the cinema or very recently.. how specifically her interacting with Eddie makes her real ? Maybe she's just Eddie's own eluding innocence manifestation, maybe Eddie sees her in his own way, he just calls her "Laura" and James just takes it from him and runs with it.. Let's remember, This is an unreal world and it's James's own world view after all.. we are in James's world.. And apparently James, in his own manifested world interacts with Eddie.. thus their worlds are interacting.. Not their created worlds per se, but their views can and do interfere and sometimes bleed into each other's to various degrees..
Now, Laura being Marry's friend, that can very well also be James's own imagination / world view.. /creation.. So, still, Idk, I cannot see a clear objective fact based theory of anything but James having a "nightmare".. It's his own created world after all, with the help of the town or not, regardless.

Also, I believe Angela is there for not only killing her father and brother, but also her mother.. because she finally broke when her mother, "her savior", proved to had been gaslighting her and actually on her father's side.. Just think of this.. James looking for wife.. wifey dead.. Angela looking for mamma.. oh, guess what, she won't find her.. because mommy's.. well yeah.. also dead.. Dead by whom you'd ask.. Dead by a sharp pointy thing with a handle..

Another detail, about Maria not being seen interacting with anyone else in the game.. Why would she.. ? James is the only horny mofo in the game that couldn't get some in a while and that's why he ended up in Silent Hill.. Now, dark jokes aside, Laura would be representing something that anyone in Silent Hill would have in common, the desire to be innocent, or to return to innocence..

[80TCS]

V I D A L a écrit :

No. It symbolizes you, as a player, played the game wrong.

Can you expand ?

[V I D A L]

80TCS a écrit :

V I D A L a écrit :

No. It symbolizes you, as a player, played the game wrong.

Can you expand ?

It was a joke, but basically you get this ending if you didn't explore the game very thoroughly and mostly rushed quickly into the next main objective.

There is more to it, of course because endings are based in small things you do, but if you take your time, explore the game carefully, get into the lore in detail and basically do everything, you might get the water ending, which is probably the canon one... at least it's the best one imo.

Leaving is basically the "happy" ending and most people get this one.

[Breaking]

80TCS a écrit :

Laura is James's symbol/manifestation of innocence, her leaving town with him meant that he came to terms with what he'd done and decided that his actions were moral, justified and forgivable given the circumstances. He basically considered that he'd ended his wife's suffering and that was what she'd wanted anyways and she'd forgave him, thus he's innocent. Laura is seen drawing a happy Mary at the end, meaning that Mary had found her peace as well.. (well, in this version of James's imagination that is.. there is no objective, real known fact/s about the real world and people other than through James's own view)

Maria leaving with him symbolizes that he's not considering himself innocent, nor his actions were moral or justifiable, but his wife's illness was not his cross to carry and she owed him freedom and and a future with an unburdened conscience.

everyone is attacking you for this but you're really only wrong about Laura being a manifestation. Laura is a real girl and was friends with Mary. however all the characters have a purpose to the narrative and still can have symbolic significance even if they are real. it comes down to personal interpretation but I think what you said about it representing james seeing himself as innocent is mostly correct. I think it's also important to remember that it's implied Mary wanted to adopt Laura since she's an orphan. although its never explicitly stated its possible that James fulfilled that wish when they left silent hill together. in the leave ending he takes responsibility for what he did and likewise, by adopting Laura he would be taking the responsibility of caretaking, something he wasn't able to do for Mary. almost like giving himself a second chance. (a lot of this just my own interpretation and not confirmed, but it's what I think the Laura's purpose is. it is very clearly shown through the game that Laura is NOT a manifestation, though.)

[WolfishMeat7]

80TCS a écrit :

Laura is James's symbol/manifestation of innocence, her leaving town with him meant that he came to terms with what he'd done and decided that his actions were moral, justified and forgivable given the circumstances. He basically considered that he'd ended his wife's suffering and that was what she'd wanted anyways and she'd forgave him, thus he's innocent. Laura is seen drawing a happy Mary at the end, meaning that Mary had found her peace as well.. (well, in this version of James's imagination that is.. there is no objective, real known fact/s about the real world and people other than through James's own view)

Maria leaving with him symbolizes that he's not considering himself innocent, nor his actions were moral or justifiable, but his wife's illness was not his cross to carry and she owed him freedom and and a future with an unburdened conscience.

the devs stated that she is a real person

[Tremere]

WolfishMeat7 a écrit :

80TCS a écrit :

Laura is James's symbol/manifestation of innocence, her leaving town with him meant that he came to terms with what he'd done and decided that his actions were moral, justified and forgivable given the circumstances. He basically considered that he'd ended his wife's suffering and that was what she'd wanted anyways and she'd forgave him, thus he's innocent. Laura is seen drawing a happy Mary at the end, meaning that Mary had found her peace as well.. (well, in this version of James's imagination that is.. there is no objective, real known fact/s about the real world and people other than through James's own view)

Maria leaving with him symbolizes that he's not considering himself innocent, nor his actions were moral or justifiable, but his wife's illness was not his cross to carry and she owed him freedom and and a future with an unburdened conscience.

the devs stated that she is a real person

And that is why I believe Masahiro Ito should keep his mouth shut from time to time. People should be able to theorize about everything in a game like Silent Hill 2. Devs giving their so-called objective truth about their work is wrong in my opinion. Also no single person is the end all be all of all knowledge and wisdom about the game. Silent Hill is it own entity.
Yeah, I also think Laura is a real person. I think the loop theory is BS and I think the Leave ending is the real one for me. But people should be able to have a different interpretation.
And if other people want to start a conversation about it, that is great, but the start of the debate should not be "this person said this and that". Give some clues that you found in the game and other things like that.

I believe all the theories the fans have about the game (even the ones I don't believe to be accurate) make the game and it's lore richer.

By the way, WolfishMeat7, this is not directed at you specifically, I just used your sentance as quote of something that represent what a lot of people constantly say.

[Shaelent]

Tremere a écrit :

WolfishMeat7 a écrit :

the devs stated that she is a real person

And that is why I believe Masahiro Ito should keep his mouth shut from time to time. People should be able to theorize about everything in a game like Silent Hill 2. Devs giving their so-called objective truth about their work is wrong in my opinion. Also no single person is the end all be all of all knowledge and wisdom about the game. Silent Hill is it own entity.
Yeah, I also think Laura is a real person. I think the loop theory is BS and I think the Leave ending is the real one for me. But people should be able to have a different interpretation.
And if other people want to start a conversation about it, that is great, but the start of the debate should not be "this person said this and that". Give some clues that you found in the game and other things like that.

I believe all the theories the fans have about the game (even the ones I don't believe to be accurate) make the game and it's lore richer.

By the way, WolfishMeat7, this is not directed at you specifically, I just used your sentance as quote of something that represent what a lot of people constantly say.

Developers are in their every right to debunk things passed around as factual information, he never had an issue with fan theories as long as it's acknowledged as a fan theory. But when you're going around saying X and Y is true because of other fans hearsay then you're harming the intention of the game.