SILENT HILL 2

SILENT HILL 2

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Seraphiel Nov 10, 2024 @ 11:37am
James did nothing wrong
I don't get why people are down on James. He euthanizsed his terminally ill girlfriend who was begging for death in between bouts of abusing him.

Frankly, I hope my partner would euthanise me if I was in the state too.
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Showing 1-15 of 119 comments
XΞИOΛLIΞИ Nov 10, 2024 @ 11:38am 
It's still murder
Seraphiel Nov 10, 2024 @ 11:42am 
Originally posted by XΞИOΛLIΞИ:
It's still murder

The definition of murder is arbitrary and solely defined by lawfulness. What James did was morally correct and Mary wanted to die.
Last edited by Seraphiel; Nov 10, 2024 @ 11:43am
S0l0 Nov 10, 2024 @ 11:50am 
He literally says he did it because he hated her and he wanted her out of the way so he could live his life. Also, Mary told him she didn't want to die.
Last edited by S0l0; Nov 10, 2024 @ 11:57am
hahaisfunny Nov 10, 2024 @ 12:15pm 
hard to explain
try to play 8 times over, so maybe you will understand
Seraphiel Nov 10, 2024 @ 12:22pm 
Originally posted by S0l0:
He literally says he did it because he hated her and he wanted her out of the way so he could live his life. Also, Mary told him she didn't want to die.

Mary was all over the place. She repeatedly told him that she wanted to die and then she confirms that she wanted to die in the leave ending.

He says that he did it because he hated her but that was clearly just the trauma, guilt and self-loathing talking. That's confirmed in the next sentence when Mary is like "if you did it because you hated me, then why do you look so sad?". James obviously didn't hate her but was overwhelmed by the circumstances.

If James truly hated her, he would never have been desperate to find her in Silent Hill and he would never have been tempted by Mary 2.0 (Maria).
Last edited by Seraphiel; Nov 10, 2024 @ 12:23pm
River Victor Nov 10, 2024 @ 1:06pm 
2
2
You should understand that when you're as depressed as Mary, your mind will fluctuate between wanting it to end and wanting to live. People whose relatives have these kind of terminal illness will understand this perfectly. It's the feeling of both being a burden and wanting the pain to end, and wanting to remain with their loved ones. She wouldn't have said that if she wasn't so sick, so it's the sickness rather than her talking. Most people with that kind of relative can forgive that. Most of those things aren't meant and people tend to understand they're not reliable. Being hurt by that or not is a different matter, but most people can forgive and not go as far as killing.

Those that DO want to be euthanize tend to be calm. Much calmer than her. Most of these type will state out right that if the time comes, don't CPR me, don't bring me back, etc, etc. And they will sign no-resuscitation form or agree legally to euthanasia and set things up for their loved ones to be free of their burden. They already have reconciled with their fate. I asked my terminally ill aunt the same question and insisted that I still loved her (I still do) and would do anything to keep her here, and I asked if she wanted to remain with us. She shook her head. We did not euthanize her exactly, but we chose not to prolong it anymore. Mary is no such case.

As for being euthanize, motives matter. What matters most of all though, is the AGREEMENT. Euthanasia usually require the person to confirms again and again to end it. He just walked in and did it. Most euthanasia cases have been talked over and done after thorough discussions and insistence on the patient's side. James more like did it partly because he wanted her out of the way. This is especially true because guilt brought him to Silent Hill. We don't truly hate him; it's him that hates him. He knows why he did it better than anyone. That's why he's here.
Last edited by River Victor; Nov 10, 2024 @ 1:19pm
XΞИOΛLIΞИ Nov 10, 2024 @ 1:10pm 
It's the whole point of Silent Hill 2 and the whole psychological dilemma.

It's the same for Angela. She still committed murder.
Seraphiel Nov 10, 2024 @ 1:33pm 
Originally posted by XΞИOΛLIΞИ:
It's the whole point of Silent Hill 2 and the whole psychological dilemma.

It's the same for Angela. She still committed murder.

Angela literally killed her rapist, she was 100% justified. No wiggle room, just straight up morally correct.
Smufius Nov 10, 2024 @ 1:34pm 
Originally posted by Seraphiel:
Originally posted by XΞИOΛLIΞИ:
It's still murder

The definition of murder is arbitrary and solely defined by lawfulness. What James did was morally correct and Mary wanted to die.

Morally correct, said by someone who wasn't there, didn't experience what James and Mary did, and who wasn't the one committing murder. No matter how moral it is, murder still ♥♥♥♥♥ you up. Even in war soldiers feel guilt for killing the enemy, either in the moment or after the combat high when the reality sets in that they took a life of someone who was "morally fighting the enemy".

The truth is that Silent Hill isn't a place that seeks sinful people. It seeks strong negative emotions. This is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to understand how it works. It's not a place that only punishes bad people who did bad things. A killer who feels no guilt or other negative emotions isn't taken to that place. This is, for example, why Walter Sullivan wasn't treated like James or Eddie.

Best example of what I said is Angela's whole reason for being in Silent Hill. Angela was actually even more morally correct than James as she killed her father in self defense after suffering sexual abuse for years. She had done nothing wrong and was only a victim. Angela was still lost in her personal hell and couldn't find a way out. Why? Because the one person she tried to find, her mother, told her that "she deserved it". The only way out for her would be to understand that she didn't do anything wrong, but there wasn't anyone to tell her that, so the negativity stayed with her and she couldn't make peace with herself.

Meanwhile Eddie reveled in that negativity and was also stuck there until he died. He wasn't put there because he killed a dog and shot a guy in the leg. He's there because he found enjoyment in shooting them, and then his (imaginary) bullies.


The new ending, Stillness, finally lets him make true peace with Mary and actually leave the town properly. He actually cries and makes a pact with her that she'll wait for him in the afterlife, and that lifts the guilt off of his heart and sets him free. It wasn't ever about getting punished for his sins. It was about letting go of the guilt.

On a final note, what James did was NOT morally correct and you can hear it in the talk he and Mary have as you walk to the final boss. Mary swings between wanting to be left alone, to hating how she looks, to wanting to die, to begging to be saved. That's the final thing she says. She begs James to tell her that everything is going to be okay. She didn't want to die. She just didn't want to suffer anymore either, and those are two very different things.
Last edited by Smufius; Nov 10, 2024 @ 1:38pm
Seraphiel Nov 10, 2024 @ 1:44pm 
Originally posted by Smufius:

On a final note, what James did was NOT morally correct and you can hear it in the talk he and Mary have as you walk to the final boss. Mary swings between wanting to be left alone, to hating how she looks, to wanting to die, to begging to be saved. That's the final thing she says. She begs James to tell her that everything is going to be okay. She didn't want to die. She just didn't want to suffer anymore either, and those are two very different things.

That conversation is sometime before Mary dies while she's still in hospital (James brought her flowers to her room). In the Leave ending she confirms that she wanted to die and that James did the right thing albeit for mixed reasons.
Last edited by Seraphiel; Nov 10, 2024 @ 1:44pm
V I D A L Nov 10, 2024 @ 2:07pm 
Euthanizing someone is against the law even if they ask you to. It's a crime. So yeah, he did plenty wrong.

More importantly, he didn't mercifully euthanized her in a peaceful way with drugs or an injection.. he brutally suffocated her to death while she struggled.

And, not because he didn't want to see her suffer anymore, but because he was tired of the burden she had become.

That is a life sentence for him.
edwvee Nov 10, 2024 @ 2:13pm 
It's too complex to say was it a murder or was it kind of eutanasia. Was it for her relief or only for him. Besides, all the scenes we see are inside James head. And it's a dilema, it's our perception, our attitude. No one can say for sure. And it's beautiful this way so only the player decides how it trully was and what it trully was,
I personally think Mary would at least forgive him if she could.
Seraphiel Nov 10, 2024 @ 2:14pm 
Originally posted by V I D A L:
Euthanizing someone is against the law even if they ask you to. It's a crime. So yeah, he did plenty wrong.

Something being against the law doesn't mean that something is morally wrong.

Originally posted by V I D A L:
And, not because he didn't want to see her suffer anymore, but because he was tired of the burden she had become.

That's just James's self loathing talking. As Mary says in the final scene, "if you did it because you hated me, then why do you look so sad?".

In the end, James euthanized a person he loved who had repeatedly asked him to die to put them out of their misery and that's the morally correct thing to do. It's shameful that we treat our cats and dogs more humanely than our loved ones.
edwvee Nov 10, 2024 @ 2:15pm 
Originally posted by V I D A L:
Euthanizing someone is against the law even if they ask you to. It's a crime. So yeah, he did plenty wrong.

More importantly, he didn't mercifully euthanized her in a peaceful way with drugs or an injection.. he brutally suffocated her to death while she struggled.

And, not because he didn't want to see her suffer anymore, but because he was tired of the burden she had become.
If it had been so simple, he would not have come to Silent Hill.
GoldInfinit7 Nov 10, 2024 @ 2:39pm 
This is like one of the most bizarre takes I have ever heard for this game. He definitely did something wrong. You might understand his motive for doing something like that but it’s still wrong. I have been following Silent Hill 2 from when the original was released and never heard anyone take such a position
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