The character redesigns, an analytical take.

[Tracido]

"The redesigns of Silent Hill 2's female cast are getting negative attention for the wrong reasons, so I wanna clear the record, and set things straight:

The problem isn't that they're unattractive, the problem is that they're made to be more likeable--Maria especially.

Maria is meant to be off-putting; James is looking for his deceased wife, and encounters an imposter. His reaction is typically discomfort and judgement. Maria is meant to make you feel bad.

She's not just any imitation of Mary--she's a poor one. Deliberately different.

Mary is sweet, considerate, and well-mannered.
Maria is mean, judgemental, and overly-forward.

Mary has soft features. Maria has harsh features.

Her appearance is deceptive, because in reality, she really shares no traits with Maria--she's a completely different character.

The remake's version of Maria is just sad Mary; she's soft-spoken, feminine, and demure. I believe this was done in an attempt to make the audience attracted to her, due to a misconception with Maria's character--that she's meant to be an attractive woman.

She is not.

Angela has a similar problem; she's still socially awkward, but in a more typical hollywood kind of way. She's like a sad puppy--a soft-served trauma victim for the audience to feel bad about.

It's an uncreative change, and it robs the unique identity of the original character.

What's great about Angela is that she's unlikeable. Every encounter with her in the game is uncomfortable and weird--and that's intentional. She's off-putting and strange, and frankly, great representation for an abuse victim!

She is not a damsel, nor is she framed as innocent.

Angela is meant to be pitiable. She's designed to actively discourage you from seeking to help her out--instead framing her as unpredictable and scary.

This is a means to criticism of James; to say that James sees that Angela is a problem, because she makes James feel bad.

And, once you find out why she's the way she is, and reflect on how James has treated her, well...

You feel bad.

Angela is too obviously a victim--her social anxiety is too identifiable, and is thus easily readable in a way that makes James' reactions seem needlessly cruel.

All of these changes actively pull the audience out of James' intended mindset, and thus obfuscate the story.

You *shouldn't* feel sorry for Angela in her earlier scenes, you *shouldn't* feel like Maria is like Mary in her earlier scenes.

Feeling that spoils the plot.

It sucks that these aspects are being paved over. It sucks that key features like these are missing in the remake, and it robs the experience for new fans.

And most importantly, it sucks because Konami has done nothing to preserve the original game. This IS Silent Hill 2 now."

Source of thread:

https://x.com/Apuru_kun/status/1796717872556777884

[mdesaleah]

"Maria is meant to be off-putting".

Yeah. Thats often overlooked. But the character designers wanted her to look unnatural. Like someone who is "too perfect" in how they look (based on what James wants), but also a bit inconsistent in how she acts. Something you don't notice at first, but becomes more clear as it goes.

Disagree on Angela being meant to be unlikable. She's meant to be weird at the start, thats confirmed information. And you do pity her later. But the key is that James is completely disinterested (and the more you play 2, the more you notice how unfit he is to help her and that he doesnt even want to do anything other than find Mary).

The game isn't saying she's trapped because she did something wrong. Its saying she's experiencing things in the town because the town reflects back. She thinks she deserves punishment, so thats what it shows back at her.

Like you said, she's a victim. And the game is very careful not to place the blame on her.

[Tracido]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

"Maria is meant to be off-putting".

Yeah. Thats often overlooked. But the character designers wanted her to look unnatural. Like someone who is "too perfect" in how they look (based on what James wants), but also a bit inconsistent in how she acts. Something you don't notice at first, but becomes more clear as it goes.

Disagree on Angela being meant to be unlikable. She's meant to be weird at the start, thats confirmed information. And you do pity her later. But the key is that James is completely disinterested (and the more you play 2, the more you notice how unfit he is to help her and that he doesnt even want to do anything other than find Mary).

The game isn't saying she's trapped because she did something wrong. Its saying she's experiencing things in the town because the town reflects back. She thinks she deserves punishment, so thats what it shows back at her.

Like you said, she's a victim. And the game is very careful not to place the blame on her.

Yeah, but the behaviors are again what I've been talking about, and Maria's were clearly these kinds of behaviors, and the outfit itself she is wearing is because of the clearly overly-forward nature of her as well.

I didn't like her at first because I didn't know her background, the first time I started to grasp something traumatic was seriously involved was when she nearly stabbed me for trying to take her knife. I then realized, this woman had something so terrible happen she can no longer trust men. However, it also meant I couldn't trust her. All before I knew her story.

Also, yes, the guilt in her manifestations is clearly there, and even though she did commit a crime, she had very traumatic reasons in fear and survival.. It is her own self doubts that consume her, and that scene ripped my heart the way it was supposed to, I am doubtful they know what they are doing here to do it again.

[turn heel]

Yeah, I finally just watched the new footage and this doesn't resemble SH2 at all. Maria always felt off putting but gorgeous, perfect, idolic as James is being led by his desires and frustrations. His emotions are clouded - think Marah in El Topo or Sylvia in NMH leading the protagonists down paths of destruction. She was always the antagonist in Silent Hill, James' inner demons personified but now she looks and acts like a soccer mom.

[Tracido]

Originally posted by turn heel:

Yeah, I finally just watched the new footage and this doesn't resemble SH2 at all. Maria always felt off putting but gorgeous, perfect, idolic as James is being led by his desires and frustrations. His emotions are clouded - think Marah in El Topo or Sylvia in NMH leading the protagonists down paths of destruction. She was always the antagonist in Silent Hill, James' inner demons personified but now she looks and acts like a soccer mom.

Aesthetics aren't as important as how they are presented here. Harsh in this case is about who she is, like the street smart nature of her when she picks a lock. Plenty of aesthetically endowed women are very hard looking and not, feminine and demure, if you get what I really mean here. However, that directive way she gets with James is more of her harshness, like the snappy way she replies to him about chasing Laura in one example.

[turn heel]

Originally posted by Tracido:

Originally posted by turn heel:

Yeah, I finally just watched the new footage and this doesn't resemble SH2 at all. Maria always felt off putting but gorgeous, perfect, idolic as James is being led by his desires and frustrations. His emotions are clouded - think Marah in El Topo or Sylvia in NMH leading the protagonists down paths of destruction. She was always the antagonist in Silent Hill, James' inner demons personified but now she looks and acts like a soccer mom.

Aesthetics aren't as important as how they are presented here. Harsh in this case is about who she is, like the street smart nature of her when she picks a lock. Plenty of aesthetically endowed women are very hard looking and not, feminine and demure, if you get what I really mean here. However, that directive way she gets with James is more of her harshness, like the snappy way she replies to him about chasing Laura in one example.

I think they're both important but it was indeed very strange seeing the way she talked and behaved in these new vids.

[Tracido]

Originally posted by turn heel:

Originally posted by Tracido:

Aesthetics aren't as important as how they are presented here. Harsh in this case is about who she is, like the street smart nature of her when she picks a lock. Plenty of aesthetically endowed women are very hard looking and not, feminine and demure, if you get what I really mean here. However, that directive way she gets with James is more of her harshness, like the snappy way she replies to him about chasing Laura in one example.

I think they're both important but it was indeed very strange seeing the way she talked and behaved in these new vids.

Fair enough. I just can't get into the characters if the behaviors of how I know them isn't there, and they are just new actors just ad-libbing new lines that will not offend anyone.

Because, what I'm getting at is, even if I mod the characters later for the aesthetics aspect, they aren't the faithful adaptations of the characters personalities in the first place.

That's why I have to see full length reviews, because they might save it, with many other scenes, I can't know, and we won't till it's out.

[turn heel]

Originally posted by Tracido:

Originally posted by turn heel:

I think they're both important but it was indeed very strange seeing the way she talked and behaved in these new vids.

Fair enough. I just can't get into the characters if the behaviors of how I know them isn't there, and they are just new actors just ad-libbing new lines that will not offend anyone.

Because, what I'm getting at is, even if I mod the characters later for the aesthetics aspect, they aren't the faithful adaptations of the characters personalities in the first place.

That's why I have to see full length reviews, because they might save it, with many other scenes, I can't know, and we won't till it's out.

Youre one hundred percent right, even if the models were done correctly that doesn't save the rest. As an aside did you know Sergio Leone would cast people for his films based on their face alone? Completely different but somewhat related - tho in spaghetti westerns oft times actors didn't even know the meaning of the lines they spoke because English was not their tongue, they just learned how to say them.

[Tracido]

Originally posted by turn heel:

Originally posted by Tracido:

Fair enough. I just can't get into the characters if the behaviors of how I know them isn't there, and they are just new actors just ad-libbing new lines that will not offend anyone.

Because, what I'm getting at is, even if I mod the characters later for the aesthetics aspect, they aren't the faithful adaptations of the characters personalities in the first place.

That's why I have to see full length reviews, because they might save it, with many other scenes, I can't know, and we won't till it's out.

Youre one hundred percent right, even if the models were done correctly that doesn't save the rest. As an aside did you know Sergio Leone would cast people for his films based on their face alone? Completely different but somewhat related - tho in spaghetti westerns oft times actors didn't even know the meaning of the lines they spoke because English was not their tongue, they just learned how to say them.

Yeah, I thought acting was pretty easy when I tried it myself, I just got into other fields of work. I would imagine acting is especially easy when someone's already done it for you, too. I really hope their team is ready for the scrutiny when this drops, it ain't gonna let up after this preview.

[klimat13]

Considering Maria, she's not as one-dimensional as some of you think. Being James's idea of a perfected version of Mary is only one aspect of her, but there are others. Like at the beginning of the game James has no idea who the hell Laura is, so it makes no sense for his fantasy woman to know her, yet Maria knows of Laura and feels protective of her. If you play "Born from a Wish", you'll see initially Maria even had a choice to disregard James completely, ultimately she didn't, but potentially there was a chance. Also Maria is very much not perfect by design, it is specifically mentioned in "The Making of SH2" between 06:42 and 09:39:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1VKvED76WQ

[Star Rain]

I played born from a wish but i dont remember most of what happened, i ultimately just helped out some ghost behind a apartment door?

I think it's fine that the remake made changes i was never thrilled with the old crap anyway i didnt even get that far into it before stopping.

Anybody who prefers the old junk can just replay it i guess?

[Narrowmind]

Yeah. I remember the door, and that was about it. LOL

[Ferranis]

As if those new devs could even notice this nuances... :(

This was doomed from the start.

[Maximizer]

Originally posted by Star Rain:

I played born from a wish but i dont remember most of what happened, i ultimately just helped out some ghost behind a apartment door?

I think it's fine that the remake made changes i was never thrilled with the old crap anyway i didnt even get that far into it before stopping.

Anybody who prefers the old junk can just replay it i guess?

If you call original Silent Hill 2 a "junk" you're probably on the forum, let alone topic of discussion.

[Pinponネット]

This.
They have the original game and massive info collection of SH Wiki, yet they have to consult to those sh*tty firms for what? Character depictions? WTF, when Blooper SH already looks promising, they dropped that nuke hard AF.

[Tracido]

Originally posted by klimat13:

Considering Maria, she's not as one-dimensional as some of you think. Being James's idea of a perfected version of Mary is only one aspect of her, but there are others. Like at the beginning of the game James has no idea who the hell Laura is, so it makes no sense for his fantasy woman to know her, yet Maria knows of Laura and feels protective of her. If you play "Born from a Wish", you'll see initially Maria even had a choice to disregard James completely, ultimately she didn't, but potentially there was a chance. Also Maria is very much not perfect by design, it is specifically mentioned in "The Making of SH2" between 06:42 and 09:39:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1VKvED76WQ

Yep, hence this take on her being pretty spot on.

Originally posted by Narrowmind:

Yeah. I remember the door, and that was about it. LOL

KEKW

Originally posted by Enarian the Alphadian:

This.
They have the original game and massive info collection of SH Wiki, yet they have to consult to those sh*tty firms for what? Character depictions? WTF, when Blooper SH already looks promising, they dropped that nuke hard AF.

We can't have a literal strip dancer dressing provocatively, can we?

I'm extremely skeptical, but I am willing to watch full length reviews, first.