Failings of Vindictus's story

[[R] Nerva]

Just as a preface, I realize that most people don't play Vindictus for the story. If you don't care about it, that's fine, you're welcome to continue to not care, and I'm not here to judge you. I will say, however, that this thread is for those that do care, so if you're not one of them, please don't♥♥♥♥♥♥it up, alright?

Also, there will be unmarked spoilers from this point onward, so expect them and cease reading if you would rather not be spoiled.

So, I've been replaying the game from scratch to see what they've done to the storyline thus far, and from what I've seen, Vindictus does not really put its best foot forward when it comes to storytelling. Part of it is that the story has been heavily abridged from what it used to be - entire arcs pared down to a single conversation or couple of missions, but even back in its heyday, the storyline really suffered from some poor writing and a lot of ambiguity in worldbuilding.

Let's look at Season 1 and Colhen, for instance. The story begins strong, introducing you to Aodhan, Marrec, and Tieve, and the relationship between Tieve and the soon-to-be-deceased town guardian, the giant spider Wenshardt. It sets up the mystery of who controlled Wenshardt and why, and introduces you to gnolls as your enemy.

Then... it immediately kinda falls apart once you get to town - the more you think about what's going on, the more plotholes appear. You're introduced to Gwynn, Ellis and Ceara. I know what they were trying to do with Gwynn; to introduce her as a hard-nosed stuck-up ice-queen military-bureaucrat. Ellis is the bright-eyed naive newbie, and a means for the player to learn about the world. There's some... unspoken relationship between the Royal Army and the Crimson Blades, but you're never clued in to what it is.

Now, Colhen is protected by the Crimson Blades. That much is clear. But the Crimson Blades are mercenaries, which means that, for them to protect a town, someone must have hired them? But who? They're clearly not under the direct authority of the Royal Army, or Gwynn wouldn't have to argue with Marrec. Yet, there's some sort of relationship; both Gwynn and Riordan show up and order you and the other Blades around like they own them, and Aodhan just... lets them. Even Ingkells does it, although he's more polite about it than Gwynn or Riordan. And this all happens over Marrec, Ceara, and Gallagher's objections, at that. What's the deal? Who's actually hiring the Blades, and why is it that the Royal Army can just run roughshod over their command structure without even obviously contracting their service? Moreover, why does Aodhan and Marrec chew you out when Gwynn privately asks for your help? Yeah, sure, Gallagher throws you under the bus, but you never had any orders to stay out of the Perilous Ruins, but you'd have already stirred up the hornet's nest on your training missions with Ceara, going there with Gwynn (before you'd been given the order not to, I might add), shouldn't make much of a difference.

That brings into question Colhen itself. It's clearly a well-established town; there's a blacksmith, a magician, a traveler's shop, an inn, and a general store with a clothier. It's protected by the Crimson Blades, who have an entire dock under their control for whatever military operations they intend to perform. It's got a rough, frontier styling to it, which indicates that it's not been around long, but it's not far from a castle town that, somehow, has worse amenities. But where's the town's leaders? Who runs it? Is it governed by the Blades? Who's the civilian authority here, and what's their relation to the royals of Rocheste castle?

So thus we have a situation here where Aodhan's the leader of the Crimson Blades, but he doesn't seem to hold a lot of authority. You wind up taking orders directly from Gwynn or Riordan, including getting outright chastised. It's understandable with Ingkells because Ingkells and Aodhan have a friendly relationship and a history, but weirdly enough, Aodhan takes control over the situation more with Ingkells than with any other member of the Royal Army.

Then they never really resolve these plotholes because your character suddenly and for no apparent reason, decides to jump ship from this warm, friendly band of local mercenaries to join the stuck-up sticks-up-the♥♥♥♥♥heirarchy of the Royal Army and moves to Rocheste. Now all of Colhen's residents and the Crimson Blades become side-characters.

This in turn opens up a whole new can of worms. In particular, what the hell kind of rank does Riordan hold? He bosses around Gwynn, and can commandeer Lord Ingkells' army, despite him being master of Ortel Castle. Yet he's only a Deputy Commander, and although he's clearly rich (given how much he spoils Nel), it's never stated whether he has a royal title or any holdings. Who is he the deputy of, anyway? Keaghan? Seriously, it's like whoever wrote this story has no idea how a chain of command works, and it makes following the story and suspending disbelief really damned hard.

It doesn't help that Gwynn (at least initially, she thankfully gets better) and Riordan are thoroughly unlikeable characters, yet you're forced to kowtow to their every whim. Even when you're not under their command, you can't just tell them to screw off until they've got a valid mercenary contract or direct orders from your commanding officer. You know, the proper response to someone from a foreign military coming into your home and attempting to bully you into obeying. The worst you can do is pull childish pranks on them, like tricking Nel into making bitter bread for her husband.

What's worse is that, during all this, you're forced to instigate a war with a 'peaceful' faction of gnolls that you had no idea was peaceful to begin with. Kirstie apparently knows the difference between them, but nobody thought to consult her the moment Gnoll hostilities became a problem. By the time they do, it's too late. If Red Chief's faction is nonhostile, why'd they invade the Perilous Ruins training grounds? And why did they attack you while you were investigating? That entire series of battles could've been avoided if someone would've talked to the gnoll expert the moment gnolls showed up and started instigating problems.

Worse still, nobody makes the connection between Shakarr and the Black Scar Gnolls, the Kobolds of Hoarfrost, and the Goblins and Ogres of Fobellow, the Vampires of Ainle, the Trolls of Hilder Forest, and the suddenly-hostile spiders of the Ruins of Sanctity, despite intercepting an order signed by Shakarr, until Shakarr himself gets involved. You'd think, the moment Shakarr was mentioned, someone would've been dispatched to investigate Shakarr's connections to all these seemingly-unrelated events.

The result of all these failings is that a lot of characters seem to carry the Idiot Ball, including the player, on numerous occasions, and for no clear reason. There's the potential for much better storytelling in here, but it's squandered by trying to shoehorn characters into roles they're not suited for and persisting with roles that aren't necessary. Like for instance, Riordan shows up just to play the obstructive military-bureaucrat once Gwynn starts to soften up and become likeable, as if that role was absolutely necessary. They kill off Ellis, when Ellis was one of the best sources of exposition and worldbuilding they had in the early game - because he was both uninformed and curious, the answers to his questions filled in a lot of holes for the player as well, answering questions the player themselves couldn't ask due to being a silent protagonist. Aodhan may as well not exist - all he does is get pushed around and have his orders countermanded by the Royal Army and have a completely-irrelevant flashback sequence for cheap drama once Ingkells shows up. Marrec is set up to be your bro and a foil for Gwynn, Riordan, and Gallagher, but you wind up 'betraying' him by joining the Royal Army, just like Keaghan did. He doesn't even work well as a foil because every time he snaps at Gwynn and Riordan, either he gets shouted down or Aodhan tells him to shut up; which is Aodhan's sole contribution to the actual plot thus far. Hell, Riordan openly threatens Marrec's life for talking back to him at one point and Aodhan says absolutely nothing. What the hell, Aodhan?

So far, I'm not really impressed with Vindictus's storytelling. It really hasn't improved since my previous time on the game.

[Umbral Knight]

It has not improved at all my friend. The more you follow it the less coherent it gets and plot-line progression becomes illogical; however, it is made in a way that is easy to dissect like you are doing to find the flaws within it which leads me to believe they kept changing their writing team with season.

[Umbral Knight]

Originally posted by ShenWolf:

I got interested when characters started disappearing, memories getting changed and stuff. Alternate reality? Time travel? I would actually like a summary of what was going on. I followed some quest dialogue but skipped many. Can someone explain as short as possible?

I'll do my best to be brief since I've played through every season at least 3 times.

S1-A: The newest Crimson Blade Mercenary rises through the ranks, and get recommended to join the Rocheste Army. They're accepted quickly and perform so well until to the point that Keaghan notices and begins to trust the Mercenary. All is well until the Royal Army is betrayed by the Pontiff's Court who aim to sacrifice the oracle - Seanna. (But the Fomors kidnap Seanna so they go for Tieve or some bullocks.)

S2-B: Keaghan refuses to allow that to happen and he, Gwynn, and the Mercenary side with him. Gwynn dies as they uncover this truth as to why Tieve is important. Narrowly escaping death, Keaghan & the Mercenary take refuge with Brynn & Nyle in Colhen until they recuperate. Keaghan refuses to let Tieve fall to fate and finds out from Nyle's Aunt(?).


S1-C: Keaghan & the Mercenary head to Heide, defeating Siglint, Beokros, and the God of Time Elchulus but not in time to prevent Tieve from becoming a vessel for the Goddess Morrighan. Elchulus says he cannot reverse this process.

Not knowing what else to do Keaghan decides to forsake his humanity; he eats the heart of a Fomor in order to become the new God of Fomors. With this power he believes it will help him stop Tieve from becoming the Goddess Morrighan.

S1-D: It doesn't work. He goes berserk and fights the Mercenary until the dormant God Cichol takes over his spirit. Not being able to bear seeing Keaghan in such pain, Tieve with the last of her control within Morrighan, sends you back into an alternate timeline where the memories of those who died in the past were forgotten.

I'll breakdown S2 if that made any sense to anyone. Yes, I did completely brush over Aodhan & Ingkells.^

[Umbral Knight]

Originally posted by ShenWolf:

Thanks. Hmmm, I would go through all cutscenes if it wouldn't take too long but maybe later in the future. İf the game will still be around then. It's probably a cheap story overall but I kind of found it interesting enough.

Yep, it is pretty cheap. They setup a typical underdog story but then made it worse by trying to make the game seem like everything had a deeper meaning but all of it comes off as illogical. Not to mention the entire time they ignore idea of having every player-controlled hero be involved in the story and playing a role in the scheme of things.

[Osve]

Short comments regarding OP's topic:
Riordan is member of royal family, brother of town's ruler Ronaun. Ronaun has direct command of every soldier unit in Rocheste's kingdom/city/area, but usually Royal Army is commanded by Supreme Commander. Crimson Blades are hired to assist RA from time to time, also gets call to arms from Ronaun at certain point of the story. Hence the power clash between Aodhan and Gwynn/Riordan – technically, neither of these two have command over CB, but they are stationed representatives of RA, so they feel like they must complete their goal at any cost. Gallagher and Marrec don't want to give in to pressure and stay their ground, but Aodhan understands that sometimes you must give in.

I assume Aodhan was the one who established CB after leaving ranks of RA. Lord Ingkells was a commander at RA, Aodhan served under him, Ingkells' troops are still part of RA, it's just they were stationed there.
At first nobody tries to make connection between Shakarr and gnolls because Fomors were never known to work together. It wasn't until later in S1 that certain characters started to question that.

When S2 first came, you didn't have to complete story of S1 to start S2. After some time it was changed so completing S1 was a must. What happens in S2 is you getting sent back in time to fight against what is called "destiny". Eventually, Pontiff's court still screws things up, causing you to unseal Elchulus, action that sets key S3 things in motion. At the end of S2 you travel back to Colhen, only to find continuation of S1 scenery – Tieve and Keaghan are gone, no one can remember them, Seanna is the new oracle of village.


It would take me few hours to write summary of the story, but Vindictus has one of deepest stories in gaming. I might agree that the way story told is not that great, but story itself is pretty awesome.

[Umbral Knight]

Originally posted by Osve:

Short comments regarding OP's topic:
Riordan is member of royal family, brother of town's ruler Ronaun. Ronaun has direct command of every soldier unit in Rocheste's kingdom/city/area, but usually Royal Army is commanded by Supreme Commander. Crimson Blades are hired to assist RA from time to time, also gets call to arms from Ronaun at certain point of the story. Hence the power clash between Aodhan and Gwynn/Riordan – technically, neither of these two have command over CB, but they are stationed representatives of RA, so they feel like they must complete their goal at any cost. Gallagher and Marrec don't want to give in to pressure and stay their ground, but Aodhan understands that sometimes you must give in.

I assume Aodhan was the one who established CB after leaving ranks of RA. Lord Ingkells was a commander at RA, Aodhan served under him, Ingkells' troops are still part of RA, it's just they were stationed there.
At first nobody tries to make connection between Shakarr and gnolls because Fomors were never known to work together. It wasn't until later in S1 that certain characters started to question that.

When S2 first came, you didn't have to complete story of S1 to start S2. After some time it was changed so completing S1 was a must. What happens in S2 is you getting sent back in time to fight against what is called "destiny". Eventually, Pontiff's court still screws things up, causing you to unseal Elchulus, action that sets key S3 things in motion. At the end of S2 you travel back to Colhen, only to find continuation of S1 scenery – Tieve and Keaghan are gone, no one can remember them, Seanna is the new oracle of village.


It would take me few hours to write summary of the story, but Vindictus has one of deepest stories in gaming. I might agree that the way story told is not that great, but story itself is pretty awesome.

I may have missed that part but when do the Pontiff's Court unseal Elchulus in S2? When the Inquisitor shows up?

[[R] Nerva]

Originally posted by Osve:

Short comments regarding OP's topic:
Riordan is member of royal family, brother of town's ruler Ronaun. Ronaun has direct command of every soldier unit in Rocheste's kingdom/city/area, but usually Royal Army is commanded by Supreme Commander. Crimson Blades are hired to assist RA from time to time, also gets call to arms from Ronaun at certain point of the story. Hence the power clash between Aodhan and Gwynn/Riordan – technically, neither of these two have command over CB, but they are stationed representatives of RA, so they feel like they must complete their goal at any cost. Gallagher and Marrec don't want to give in to pressure and stay their ground, but Aodhan understands that sometimes you must give in.

I assume Aodhan was the one who established CB after leaving ranks of RA. Lord Ingkells was a commander at RA, Aodhan served under him, Ingkells' troops are still part of RA, it's just they were stationed there.
At first nobody tries to make connection between Shakarr and gnolls because Fomors were never known to work together. It wasn't until later in S1 that certain characters started to question that.

When S2 first came, you didn't have to complete story of S1 to start S2. After some time it was changed so completing S1 was a must. What happens in S2 is you getting sent back in time to fight against what is called "destiny". Eventually, Pontiff's court still screws things up, causing you to unseal Elchulus, action that sets key S3 things in motion. At the end of S2 you travel back to Colhen, only to find continuation of S1 scenery – Tieve and Keaghan are gone, no one can remember them, Seanna is the new oracle of village.


It would take me few hours to write summary of the story, but Vindictus has one of deepest stories in gaming. I might agree that the way story told is not that great, but story itself is pretty awesome.

I wouldn't call it 'awesome' myself. In fact, it seems pretty clearly designed to make the player latch onto the idiot ball and not let go.

I remember back when you could play S2 before completing S1. Back then, you clutched the idiot ball even harder because Gwynn (via Ellis) never asked you to go to the Perilous Ruins and stir up the gnolls there; you just kinda go on your own, and everyone, including Aodhan, chew you out for it. Now, only Marrec does, and he's pretty clearly admonished for his behavior.

From what I'm gathering here, this game is a series of time loops where you are led to screw things up in spectacular fashion, then go back in time only to find the starting conditions slightly different than you remember. That's hardly deep - in fact, that's kinda particularly infuriating because rather than being the force that resolves things, you're the force actively making things worse, often by being an unwitting pawn. That's the author going, "Hey guess what? Everything you've done, all you've been through? Pointless. You may as well have not gotten out of bed, because you never had any choice but to ruin it for everybody." Ugh. I despise that kind of writing - I realize an MMO has to have an ongoing plot, but don't make the player regret taking part in the story.

What you've said about Riordan... honestly pisses me off even more. It confirms what I'd hypothesized - that the writer has no idea how a chain of command works. Riordan is deputy commander, but holds all actual authority simply because he's Lord Ronaun's brother. Why even have a supreme commander at all? Nepotism and Riordan's brutish, elitist behavior apparently does more to command Ronaun's armies than Riordan's actual rank. They all obey because they're terrified of him, and he can apparently execute poor citizens of Rocheste on demand unless countermanded by a superior, if what he said about the Beggar in S1 is to be believed.

Furthermore, the story sets up Aodhan to be a pansy that folds the minute Riordan shows up with all his bluster, even though he has every right to tell Gwynn and Riordan to get bent. They're mercenaries - unless Riordan, Keaghan, or Ronaun signs a contract for their services, they don't have to mobilize for any reason. Mercenaries have entirely separate command structures, and do not have to obey the orders of anyone outside them unless contracted to do so. But that never happens. Aodhan 'gives in' for no good reason - a mercenary worth his salt would look at these blustering Royal Army cretins and say, "want our services? Here's a contract. You sign that and pay our fee, and you've got our services. Otherwise, get out of our barracks." If the writer was dead set on having Aodhan fold up without an argument, at least he could give a good reason why. I could think of several just off the top of my head, like Rocheste looking for an excuse to kick his mercenaries out of Colhen and establish a Royal Army presence, or perhaps a standing contract with Lord Ronaun, or something to justify Aodhan's simpering behavior.

That just never happens, and with Lord Ingkells, it's even more jarring. Ingkells and Aodhan have a clearly non-antagonistic relationship, it's more understandable that Aodhan might do favors for a friend. That said, Ingkells is still asking Aodhan to send men into war against fomors with no contract and no reward in it. I'm sorry, but most mercenary commanders don't put their men at risk of death as a favor to a friend. It makes even less sense that when Ingkells leaves, Riordan shows up and promptly starts ordering you around again - at least this time he has an excuse, as you're technically a Royal Cadet now. Though why your character suddenly chooses to join the stuffy, hateful, stick-in-colon Royal Army over staying with the Crimson Blades is absolutely perplexing. There's absolutely no reason for it besides trying to climb the social ladder, which is exactly what Marrec accuses Keaghan of and makes you an ass to Marrec.

[Umbral Knight]

Originally posted by R Nerva:

Originally posted by Osve:

Short comments regarding OP's topic:
Riordan is member of royal family, brother of town's ruler Ronaun. Ronaun has direct command of every soldier unit in Rocheste's kingdom/city/area, but usually Royal Army is commanded by Supreme Commander. Crimson Blades are hired to assist RA from time to time, also gets call to arms from Ronaun at certain point of the story. Hence the power clash between Aodhan and Gwynn/Riordan – technically, neither of these two have command over CB, but they are stationed representatives of RA, so they feel like they must complete their goal at any cost. Gallagher and Marrec don't want to give in to pressure and stay their ground, but Aodhan understands that sometimes you must give in.

I assume Aodhan was the one who established CB after leaving ranks of RA. Lord Ingkells was a commander at RA, Aodhan served under him, Ingkells' troops are still part of RA, it's just they were stationed there.
At first nobody tries to make connection between Shakarr and gnolls because Fomors were never known to work together. It wasn't until later in S1 that certain characters started to question that.

When S2 first came, you didn't have to complete story of S1 to start S2. After some time it was changed so completing S1 was a must. What happens in S2 is you getting sent back in time to fight against what is called "destiny". Eventually, Pontiff's court still screws things up, causing you to unseal Elchulus, action that sets key S3 things in motion. At the end of S2 you travel back to Colhen, only to find continuation of S1 scenery – Tieve and Keaghan are gone, no one can remember them, Seanna is the new oracle of village.


It would take me few hours to write summary of the story, but Vindictus has one of deepest stories in gaming. I might agree that the way story told is not that great, but story itself is pretty awesome.

I wouldn't call it 'awesome' myself. In fact, it seems pretty clearly designed to make the player latch onto the idiot ball and not let go.

I remember back when you could play S2 before completing S1. Back then, you clutched the idiot ball even harder because Gwynn (via Ellis) never asked you to go to the Perilous Ruins and stir up the gnolls there; you just kinda go on your own, and everyone, including Aodhan, chew you out for it. Now, only Marrec does, and he's pretty clearly admonished for his behavior.

From what I'm gathering here, this game is a series of time loops where you are led to screw things up in spectacular fashion, then go back in time only to find the starting conditions slightly different than you remember. That's hardly deep - in fact, that's kinda particularly infuriating because rather than being the force that resolves things, you're the force actively making things worse, often by being an unwitting pawn. That's the author going, "Hey guess what? Everything you've done, all you've been through? Pointless. You may as well have not gotten out of bed, because you never had any choice but to ruin it for everybody." Ugh. I despise that kind of writing - I realize an MMO has to have an ongoing plot, but don't make the player regret taking part in the story.

What you've said about Riordan... honestly pisses me off even more. It confirms what I'd hypothesized - that the writer has no idea how a chain of command works. Riordan is deputy commander, but holds all actual authority simply because he's Lord Ronaun's brother. Why even have a supreme commander at all? Nepotism and Riordan's brutish, elitist behavior apparently does more to command Ronaun's armies than Riordan's actual rank. They all obey because they're terrified of him, and he can apparently execute poor citizens of Rocheste on demand unless countermanded by a superior, if what he said about the Beggar in S1 is to be believed.

Furthermore, the story sets up Aodhan to be a pansy that folds the minute Riordan shows up with all his bluster, even though he has every right to tell Gwynn and Riordan to get bent. They're mercenaries - unless Riordan, Keaghan, or Ronaun signs a contract for their services, they don't have to mobilize for any reason. Mercenaries have entirely separate command structures, and do not have to obey the orders of anyone outside them unless contracted to do so. But that never happens. Aodhan 'gives in' for no good reason - a mercenary worth his salt would look at these blustering Royal Army cretins and say, "want our services? Here's a contract. You sign that and pay our fee, and you've got our services. Otherwise, get out of our barracks." If the writer was dead set on having Aodhan fold up without an argument, at least he could give a good reason why. I could think of several just off the top of my head, like Rocheste looking for an excuse to kick his mercenaries out of Colhen and establish a Royal Army presence, or perhaps a standing contract with Lord Ronaun, or something to justify Aodhan's simpering behavior.

That just never happens, and with Lord Ingkells, it's even more jarring. Ingkells and Aodhan have a clearly non-antagonistic relationship, it's more understandable that Aodhan might do favors for a friend. That said, Ingkells is still asking Aodhan to send men into war against fomors with no contract and no reward in it. I'm sorry, but most mercenary commanders don't put their men at risk of death as a favor to a friend. It makes even less sense that when Ingkells leaves, Riordan shows up and promptly starts ordering you around again - at least this time he has an excuse, as you're technically a Royal Cadet now. Though why your character suddenly chooses to join the stuffy, hateful, stick-in-colon Royal Army over staying with the Crimson Blades is absolutely perplexing. There's absolutely no reason for it besides trying to climb the social ladder, which is exactly what Marrec accuses Keaghan of and makes you an ass to Marrec.

Boy I would hate to see how much S3 could be picked apart if we had the time to do so.
Even Dragon Nest's story was much more glued together than this.

[Lonie]

Disclaimer: I read/played the entire story before they changed the format twice, so here’s goes my understanding of it.

I would not take a particular interest in the titles themselves, only the executive power chain, and to me here’s how it goes :

Ronaun / Pontiff > Keaghan > Riordan > Ingkells > Aodhan

The only reason Keaghan is not up there with the Pontiff and Ronaun is because he does not own anything major himself, he represents and commands the Royal Army, that’s it. He does not own Rosheste, nor the Pontiff’s Court (and everything else under their hood), nor the Royal Army, therefore his power can be passed over to someone else, while the other two are anchored there until they become inept or die. The fact that Keaghan’s role is attainable by normal means is just why Riordan wants his role and eventually takes it. When Riordan takes control of the Royal Army, he pretty much can do as he pleases.

The reasons I wouldn’t concern myself with titles are that, not only is it a fantasy world, so we cannot be certain what are the grades unless given an order sheet, and that in the actual real world, titles can represent a different power status depending on the country and even 100 years back in the same country. Especially since Vindictus has Supreme Commander as a title, I believe the equivalent in the US would be General of Army, or pretty close.

Now for the Crimson Blades Mercenaries, since Aodhan served under Inkgells, that makes him an old Royal Army member. Which is probably why he is under an insinuated contract with the Royal Army to guard Colhen, if he wasn’t under contract , he would not obey neither Riordan nor Gwynn that much as you said, but since he is being paid by them, there’s isn’t much he can say in response to authority already. It’s like having a boss tell you to do something, you can’t say ‘’pay me more or I’ll go’’ and expect a good response. Someone else will just take its place and your role as a player will not change much, if at all. He’s just trying to make the best of the situations he’s being given. His overall character is foldable but quite comprehensible.

As for why go to the Royal Army ? I think it was just the natural way of things honestly. The real bad guys are the Pontiff’s Court. Not even Riordan knows what’s up. But in order to reach the Pontiff’s Court you have to go through the Royal Army somehow. If you stayed at Colhen, you would have dealt with petty mercenary things and not have found Seanna, invaded Ortel Castle nor being recognized by Keaghan and fight the Dragons alongside him. Best you could have done with the mercenaries is beat Shakarr. But going with the Royal Army makes the main character know more about what’s truly going on. Especially since your character does not have the same information as we, the players have. We have some dialogues that only us can see but your main character cannot know up until a certain point, it’s a way to foreshadow a certain path of progress.

Same thing with the world ’’ resets ‘’, it was necessary to fight (or accept ?) the true foe that lies ahead in s3. Given s2 story holds no signifiance to s1, so you can skip it entirely, and s3 is not as deep as s1, it still follows s1 at least and the story is not yet finished. I would not call it a pointless progression, since the world has indeed changed, its just a different sad view on the world as you yourself have progressed a lot in terms of power to, like I said, fight a greater evil. Who really knows if we are at the best position at this point, maybe we are just delaying an inevitable event, and delaying it is causing all that grief, maybe not and we fight gods to not let it happen. No one knows what happens when Morrigan awakens, and knowing the Fomors and human have reverse prophecies, who knows what will really happen? And unless I’m wrong, somebody else remembers the world being reset, don’t remember who but, anyways it’s long already.

As for gnolls and fomors I don’t really remember that part in detail. I’ve read the story a long time ago so my memory may be off on some things, but I just think that a lot of what you said could be answered by insinuations without needing absolute proof.

As the thing with Kirstie, that happens a lot in real life, no one asking the expert, so I tough that particular dialogue was quite clever, especially since it says she knows a lot about them, otherwise why would that dialogue be there.

[Umbral Knight]

Originally posted by The Bretzel:

Disclaimer: I read/played the entire story before they changed the format twice, so here’s goes my understanding of it.

I would not take a particular interest in the titles themselves, only the executive power chain, and to me here’s how it goes :

Ronaun / Pontiff > Keaghan > Riordan > Ingkells > Aodhan

The only reason Keaghan is not up there with the Pontiff and Ronaun is because he does not own anything major himself, he represents and commands the Royal Army, that’s it. He does not own Rosheste, nor the Pontiff’s Court (and everything else under their hood), nor the Royal Army, therefore his power can be passed over to someone else, while the other two are anchored there until they become inept or die. The fact that Keaghan’s role is attainable by normal means is just why Riordan wants his role and eventually takes it. When Riordan takes control of the Royal Army, he pretty much can do as he pleases.

The reasons I wouldn’t concern myself with titles are that, not only is it a fantasy world, so we cannot be certain what are the grades unless given an order sheet, and that in the actual real world, titles can represent a different power status depending on the country and even 100 years back in the same country. Especially since Vindictus has Supreme Commander as a title, I believe the equivalent in the US would be General of Army, or pretty close.

Now for the Crimson Blades Mercenaries, since Aodhan served under Inkgells, that makes him an old Royal Army member. Which is probably why he is under an insinuated contract with the Royal Army to guard Colhen, if he wasn’t under contract , he would not obey neither Riordan nor Gwynn that much as you said, but since he is being paid by them, there’s isn’t much he can say in response to authority already. It’s like having a boss tell you to do something, you can’t say ‘’pay me more or I’ll go’’ and expect a good response. Someone else will just take its place and your role as a player will not change much, if at all. He’s just trying to make the best of the situations he’s being given. His overall character is foldable but quite comprehensible.

As for why go to the Royal Army ? I think it was just the natural way of things honestly. The real bad guys are the Pontiff’s Court. Not even Riordan knows what’s up. But in order to reach the Pontiff’s Court you have to go through the Royal Army somehow. If you stayed at Colhen, you would have dealt with petty mercenary things and not have found Seanna, invaded Ortel Castle nor being recognized by Keaghan and fight the Dragons alongside him. Best you could have done with the mercenaries is beat Shakarr. But going with the Royal Army makes the main character know more about what’s truly going on. Especially since your character does not have the same information as we, the players have. We have some dialogues that only us can see but your main character cannot know up until a certain point, it’s a way to foreshadow a certain path of progress.

Same thing with the world ’’ resets ‘’, it was necessary to fight (or accept ?) the true foe that lies ahead in s3. Given s2 story holds no signifiance to s1, so you can skip it entirely, and s3 is not as deep as s1, it still follows s1 at least and the story is not yet finished. I would not call it a pointless progression, since the world has indeed changed, its just a different sad view on the world as you yourself have progressed a lot in terms of power to, like I said, fight a greater evil. Who really knows if we are at the best position at this point, maybe we are just delaying an inevitable event, and delaying it is causing all that grief, maybe not and we fight gods to not let it happen. No one knows what happens when Morrigan awakens, and knowing the Fomors and human have reverse prophecies, who knows what will really happen? And unless I’m wrong, somebody else remembers the world being reset, don’t remember who but, anyways it’s long already.

As for gnolls and fomors I don’t really remember that part in detail. I’ve read the story a long time ago so my memory may be off on some things, but I just think that a lot of what you said could be answered by insinuations without needing absolute proof.

As the thing with Kirstie, that happens a lot in real life, no one asking the expert, so I tough that particular dialogue was quite clever, especially since it says she knows a lot about them, otherwise why would that dialogue be there.

Well, the world being reset does eventually happen. Vindictus is supposed to be the prologue to Mabinogi, although I still think the story is a bunch of Swiss cheese with the amount of plot holes in it or maybe not so much as plot holes and more insignificant actions that occur. The story's more fluff that puff and it's not blowing any houses down.