Who thinks the last few levels are tedious?

[Benjafins]

I was truly loving this game with levels like Life of the Party and the one with the submarine. They changed, felt dynamic and exciting to discover. Then, Old City hits. A terribly tedious map for several reasons- finding Cavador is annoying and locating the scripture was a pain. Ran around in circles for what seemed like hours. Very little changes from the original Thief which did the map much better and was actually a highlight in that game.
Then, Casing the Joint - which was okay despite a confusing Cuckoo Clock and a boring wood covered environment taking place in 1 building. I was happy it was over when I completed the level but...nope! Were going back in with mild changes with Masks, the exact same level...a 3 floor level where everything looks the same.
I feel this game was a product of its time in that it needed to be a certain length or people would be disappointed.... or that they needed to hit plot points. Go back in for a mask? I grabbed it the first time through the map! Doesn't that give me a pass? Or do I need to go back in to find and read another ambigious Karris note? Why would that be important? Doesn't seem worth breaking in for...frustrating that the last levels are so tedious and boring.
Funny thing is I will probably play through this game again but stop once Old City hits and just watch the cutscenes on youtube if I want to experience the ending. Looking Glass never figured out how to properly end video games. It's a curse that seems to follow them from System Shock 2 to BioShock 1.

[Rastrelly]

Funny thing is, in mission with Cavador you can just get to his office and wait for him there :) The only problem will be to lure off his bodyguard.

[Tavman (4)]

I though Sabotage at Soulforge could have been a great mission, however it was preceded by what I feel is four of the worst designed levels I have came across.

Precious Cargo - I really felt that this was a "Get from point A to point B" type of mission that resembles the missions that you find in the current version of Thief. I really didn't find that this mission had any personality and was just something you had to complete just to progress the story.

Kidnap - I am speechless for all the wrong reasons considering that this was one of the locations I wanted to get to after playing the original Thief. I personally felt that the Lost city had been desecrated and that the grandeur of the city so evident in the original Thief had been obliterated. I would have been so much more entertaining had all the dangers that were present in the original game been allowed to make an appearance in this mission. At least it would have looked like the city was still fighting back to reclaim its identity rather than looking brutalised.

Casing The Joint - This has to be the worst way to design a complete ghost style mission yet for some reason there is a long list of other missions that could easily be completed this way without having the need to include this objective in. This was just torturous from start to finish.

Masks - So you have just finished Casing The Joint....... only yo do it all over again and this time we have a third level of just unashamed torture. Yes, you have suffer having to re-loot every room again in the first two levels and then go to the third to finally complete all your objectives before leaving. At least you didn't have to fall down or completely exit the mansion just to end this mission. This was about the time I seriously wanted to quit playing this game.

[Chavinchi]

Soulforge is perhaps my least favourite map in the series. It epitemizes everything I felt was lost going from Thief 1 to Thief 2. Thief 1 was a study in mood-setting and atmosphere, it had an alien, other-wordly feel that left a mark on my brain. Thief 2 was desolate, baren, charmless, like Karas' robots. It was intentional I think and well-executed, matching the theme of the game and plot, but that didn't make it anymore of a place I like to spend time. And Soulforge took that up to 11, plus it was incredibly long.

[Sir Taffsalot]

I'm sad that you got that impression. Thief 2 wasn't barren nor desolate for the most part, nor was that an intention. Designers tried to craft more believable locales, with a modern feel to them, and for the largest part of the game they succeeded. I did miss TDP's weird dreamlike atmosphere, and some of T2's steampunk additions were a bit cheesy.

I agree about Soulforge, and I agree with the earlier comment about Kidnap. Lost City was already already striped of significant part of enjoyment and atmosphere in Gold edition. It's interesting, how every time LGS came back to that location they managed to make it worse.

[Chavinchi]

Maybe I used the wrong word. It wasn't empty, but I felt like it was. Maybe 'cold' is better. Thief 1 was 'warm'.

[Tavman (4)]

Originally posted by Sir Taffsalot:

I did miss TDP's weird dreamlike atmosphere, and some of T2's steampunk additions were a bit cheesy.

This is what I really liked about Thief: Dark Project and Thief: Deadly Shadows. It added variety to the missions which also added variety to the enemies and reminded me that I was playing a Thief game rather than a game based on the real world.

I felt that in Thief 2, they just re-used the human enemies for each mission which made the game rather monotonous for me. The spiders, haunts, zombies and ratmen (as the only other significant enemies) were used so sparingly, they were essentially in their token places and I felt that it did not add to the variety of enemies the way it did in the other older Thief games.

[Sticky White Stuff]

The only mission i dislike is Casing the Joint, just because Masks is right after it. So you finish Casing the Joint, great for you. Now do it all again. IMO, it would be better if they just removed Casing from the game. It's not like they have to meet a certain criteria.

Soulforge was big, maybe a little tedious. But it made sense as an end-game level. I liked it.
The Lost City felt crammed compared to the original. But i still enjoyed it since i love the original level so much.

Thief 1/Gold focused on horror/nature/urban decay/tomb raiding
Thief 2 focused more on thievery/machines

I just like the first game more due to superb level design and the atmosphere.

[Umi Nova]

There's always Fan Missions you can download and run, and there is a huge collection of them, with authors making more even today.

[Jvde]

Originally posted by donwallo:

It's a very common opinion. I'm not sure about Kidnap but if you review old threads from the forums rating T2 levels Casing/Masks/Soulsforge are commonly listed as the worst three.

I didn't hate Kidnap, possibly because I was sufficiently confused from the outset that I consulted a FAQ before I had to waste too much time.

Casing was the first level I didn't like, mainly because I just couldn't figure out the secrets (the library and the cuckoo). Masks was boring for the obvious reason though would probably have been good or even excellent on its own. (Another thing that bugged me about Masks was how many Masks there were. One or two rooms of doing the rope-trick would have been good but there was something like six rooms with masks.)

I really disliked the first half of Soulforge for the same reason I disliked SS2 (on expert playing for the first time). It was just too hard. Constant dying and reloading and getting lost. The second half I liked better, but taken together I would rate it as the worst level out of the first three Thief games.

I loved ss2 and thief 2 precisely because it was a challenge xD I mean, there is the normal level for the casuals, you just had to restart the level on normal.
And yes, there is a lot of thinking here, but it's not that hard as people say. Secrets? Sure they are difficult to find but that's the point! It's very rewarding when you finally get to find them all!
I died a lot, i reloaded a lot and i got angry a couple times but it wasn't maddening or annoying, that's how the game is supposed to be. If you want a bioshock style game where you die and then revive like nothing else happened then you gotta go elsewhere. Thief is a hard game like the ones we 90s kids used to play, and i love it for it!

[donwallo]

I like difficulty too, Dark Souls, the Gothic games, et al.

It may be because I never properly learned the combat mechanics of the Thief games, I don't know, but there were spots involving fighting that were hard in a way that was not enjoyable for me.

The secrets are a different problem. If you can't find them they interrupt the flow of the game. It's not fun spending 15 minutes scouring an vast map you have completely cleared of threats looking for one item, then giving up and using a FAQ. This was a common complaint about the Downwind Thieve's Guild level in Thief Gold. (I actually liked that level as it happens.)

[Rastrelly]

Originally posted by donwallo:

I like difficulty too, Dark Souls, the Gothic games, et al.

It may be because I never properly learned the combat mechanics of the Thief games, I don't know, but there were spots involving fighting that were hard in a way that was not enjoyable for me.

Thief 2 is completely finishable without ever involving in a fight ) And Soulforge can LOOK overwhelming, but I totally remeber easily beating it when I played T2 for the first time. Just roam around, familiarise with layout, find an instruction (the one in safe room). By that time you'll have a complete map. Just follow instruction while avoiding or distracting robots. They are dumb =)

[donwallo]

The robots were the problem for me, as I recall.

[...]

Only acceptable way to deal with the combat in a Thief game is to avoid it completely.

Anyways, as far as the latter missions go, Kidnap is the only one I seriously dislike. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of a mission, for me it's up there with Thieves guild from TG.
I actually never found first visit to Gervasius' estate to be all that difficult, even tho forced ghosting was a perfect example of good ol video game logic (don't ya dare letting someone see ya or even touching any of the guards and NPCs cuz then owner is gonna get scared and cancel his party! don't mind stealing everything valuable tho, no way in hell anyone's gonna notice that).

[User_205]

Honestly I loved Kidnap, manly because there´s one single objective and a giant sprawling map. You got all possible options to finish that objective and flee. Classic.
On the other hand "Chasing the joint" and "Masks" were horrible. "Chasing the joint" is just too hard and confusing (luckily on my first playthrough I found the secret passway really fast) and "Masks" would be nice to play but you already know the map. In addition the expert level has a real high loot level.
Soulforge still was great and an awesome end to the game.

[Drowning witch]

Originally posted by User_205:

Honestly I loved Kidnap, manly because there´s one single objective and a giant sprawling map. You got all possible options to finish that objective and flee. Classic.

Just playing through this one, and can't agree. Really bad design. Cavador was in a tiny room, surround by guards and cameras, and ghosting was impossible. Not to mention he kept running in place, trying to get past the guard with a metal helmet, and one guard on the floor below was walking into a wall. Spent 30 minutes doing a perfect run to blackjack all the guards and avoid cameras and then gassed cavador and the tin hat guy.

Just way to crowded to be fun.