Who thinks the last few levels are tedious?

[Benjafins]

I was truly loving this game with levels like Life of the Party and the one with the submarine. They changed, felt dynamic and exciting to discover. Then, Old City hits. A terribly tedious map for several reasons- finding Cavador is annoying and locating the scripture was a pain. Ran around in circles for what seemed like hours. Very little changes from the original Thief which did the map much better and was actually a highlight in that game.
Then, Casing the Joint - which was okay despite a confusing Cuckoo Clock and a boring wood covered environment taking place in 1 building. I was happy it was over when I completed the level but...nope! Were going back in with mild changes with Masks, the exact same level...a 3 floor level where everything looks the same.
I feel this game was a product of its time in that it needed to be a certain length or people would be disappointed.... or that they needed to hit plot points. Go back in for a mask? I grabbed it the first time through the map! Doesn't that give me a pass? Or do I need to go back in to find and read another ambigious Karris note? Why would that be important? Doesn't seem worth breaking in for...frustrating that the last levels are so tedious and boring.
Funny thing is I will probably play through this game again but stop once Old City hits and just watch the cutscenes on youtube if I want to experience the ending. Looking Glass never figured out how to properly end video games. It's a curse that seems to follow them from System Shock 2 to BioShock 1.

[😎 𝓣𝓪𝓯𝓯𝒆𝓻𝔀𝓸𝓬𝓴𝔂 😎]

I kind of agree. The Lost city tends to be where players get fed up and go on a killing spree, as it is just a boring version of the T1 equivalent. I liked Casing the Joint (especially the library) and didn't mind replaying it in Masks (dangling over the mask rooms from a rope arrow to grab the masks was a highlight)

Those levels are essential for advancing the plot and I think they were planning to improve them, but the game was rushed. It's as simple as that. They were on the verge of bankruptcy when Thief 1, 2 and SS2 came out and had to rush the endings. Oh and Bioshock wasn't by Looking Glass, but by Irrational games.

Have you played Soulforge yet? Some people hate it, but as far as I'm concerned it's a great final level, that recovers after the last 3 mediocre ones.

[Benjafins]

I was looking at stealth based games since I've been addicted to Thief recently and that game came up. I will give it go sometime.

[Sir Taffsalot]

Heh, I actually thought that Soulforge was worst of the bunch, For all these years I completed it only ONCE! and for all other playthroughs it was good old CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+END to final cutscene.
I actually liked Casing the Joint and Masks, good thing that you mentioned the library Tafferwocky! Really great way to put a drop of subtle supernatural horror in what is a very mundane mission. In any case, I love mansion-style missions and I thought this was a really well designed mansion, fun to explore and play through it two times, especially with Masks being less demanding.

Old City mission is pain in the ass tho, no questions there. I always ignore main objectives and cheat to end when I collect a bit of loot...

[😎 𝓣𝓪𝓯𝓯𝒆𝓻𝔀𝓸𝓬𝓴𝔂 😎]

I'd say soulforge is bad by the standards of a traditional Thief level (i.e. large, characterful environment to steal from), but is very good when viewed as a last level. It fulfills that purpose well, as it makes you feel like you're trapped in a giant, ugly machine (a vision of Karras's future perhaps), wrecking Karras's plan while he rants at you down the microphone. It's very atmospheric and had some cool ideas (manufacturing your own equipment, although I never had to do so).

[Retrado the Barbarian]

Kidnap is really only one of final missions i hated, and I really hated it with passion. Some other parts of T2 clearly suffered from game being rushed (Casing the Joint and Masks, if the game was finished as intended there would have been way more differences between the two, and also there would be two large missions placed between them), but that one mission was annoying, unfixable, un-Thief-like mess at its very core.

[Talviomena]

Originally posted by BooWahBalls:

I was truly loving this game with levels like Life of the Party and the one with the submarine. They changed, felt dynamic and exciting to discover. Then, Old City hits. A terribly tedious map for several reasons- finding Cavador is annoying and locating the scripture was a pain. Ran around in circles for what seemed like hours.

Life of the Party may be my favourite mission, I loved to explore The City from the rooftops. I don't like running on the streetlevel in any Thief game, especially in DS it was very annoying. And yes, The Old City... I spent hours in that level, and there was Mechanists everywhere!
Also, manufacturing things in the Soulforge was a real pain. I went the whole mission through with walkthrough because it just felt like one big mess.

Originally posted by BooWahBalls:

Looking Glass never figured out how to properly end video games.

True. When I finished TMA and the final cutscene was over, I felt like: "Really? That's it?"

[Chavinchi]

Funny, I actually liked those last levels more, except for Soulforge (more like 'soulless'). I especially liked Kidnapped, I felt like the enemy placement forced me to strategise and plan more than usual.

[Mahou]

I liked Masks, but hated Casing the Joint. I was okay with The Lost City (likely because I found Cavador early on without even trying), and Soulforge wasn't that bad (never finished it though, due to a bug.

[Cat Fart]

Just finished 'Kidnap' mission at it was a annoying maze & not that fun. I'm at 'Casing The Joint' now and had a few lock out bugs that I never came across till this point. The Mansion feels like it's missing props, walking into empty rooms is just odd, bathtub with no water (but with the sounds of water) and the Bathroom, stalls with no toilets, I'm not expecting tons of props because of the age of the game but when something should be there and it's not, it gets noticed. I'll try and struggle through till the end. With that said, I loved the first 3/4's of the game, at first I was put off at the old graphics then over time forgot about that because the game is really that good. I played it when it first came out years ago. Btw, I just found out about Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age. Here's the link if anyone is interested. http://www.thief2x.com/download/

[😎 𝓣𝓪𝓯𝓯𝒆𝓻𝔀𝓸𝓬𝓴𝔂 😎]

Originally posted by Cat Fart:

Just finished 'Kidnap' mission at it was a annoying maze & not that fun. I'm at 'Casing The Joint' now and had a few lock out bugs that I never came across till this point. The Mansion feels like it's missing props, walking into empty rooms is just odd, bathtub with no water (but with the sounds of water) and the Bathroom, stalls with no toilets, I'm not expecting tons of props because of the age of the game but when something should be there and it's not, it gets noticed. I'll try and struggle through till the end. With that said, I loved the first 3/4's of the game, at first I was put off at the old graphics then over time forgot about that because the game is really that good. I played it when it first came out years ago. Btw, I just found out about Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age. Here's the link if anyone is interested. http://www.thief2x.com/download/

That's weird. I could have sworn Casing the Joint had water in the bath and toilets. Maybe that's cos I had the Tafferpatched map.

[Mahou]

Originally posted by Cat Fart:

Just finished 'Kidnap' mission at it was a annoying maze & not that fun. I'm at 'Casing The Joint' now and had a few lock out bugs that I never came across till this point. The Mansion feels like it's missing props, walking into empty rooms is just odd, bathtub with no water (but with the sounds of water) and the Bathroom, stalls with no toilets, I'm not expecting tons of props because of the age of the game but when something should be there and it's not, it gets noticed. I'll try and struggle through till the end. With that said, I loved the first 3/4's of the game, at first I was put off at the old graphics then over time forgot about that because the game is really that good. I played it when it first came out years ago. Btw, I just found out about Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age. Here's the link if anyone is interested. http://www.thief2x.com/download/

The level after casing the joint, "Masks", is far more entertaining in my opinion. It removes the frustrating limitations and adds more variety to the level design. I wish Casing the Joint wasn't in the game.

[Benjafins]

The ending to System Shock 2 was weak but it was brief-there was a lot of backtracking too but I find that to be a strength not a weakness in SS2. Mostly because how well it was paced, how the creatures varied on repeated visits-unlocking new areas.

[Benjafins]

Wait-I forgot about collecting those damn eggs. That was tedious.

[donwallo]

It's a very common opinion. I'm not sure about Kidnap but if you review old threads from the forums rating T2 levels Casing/Masks/Soulsforge are commonly listed as the worst three.

I didn't hate Kidnap, possibly because I was sufficiently confused from the outset that I consulted a FAQ before I had to waste too much time.

Casing was the first level I didn't like, mainly because I just couldn't figure out the secrets (the library and the cuckoo). Masks was boring for the obvious reason though would probably have been good or even excellent on its own. (Another thing that bugged me about Masks was how many Masks there were. One or two rooms of doing the rope-trick would have been good but there was something like six rooms with masks.)

I really disliked the first half of Soulforge for the same reason I disliked SS2 (on expert playing for the first time). It was just too hard. Constant dying and reloading and getting lost. The second half I liked better, but taken together I would rate it as the worst level out of the first three Thief games.

[BuckleBean]

I totally agree. I'm playing through for the first time and after trying to find Cavador for what felt like forever, I walked away from the game for a week or 2. After coming back, I had to use a tutorial and ended up hitting CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+END just to get the hell out of there. Casing the Joint was tough because it didn't allow for my playstyle, which includes knockouts. I was fine with Masks, though. Just got to Soulforge, so we'll see how that goes. Aside from these minor quibbles, it's a damn good game, one of the best really, even after all this time.