Durability is nonsense. Don't do it!

[MercyBeat]

I hate how developers are putting in weapon durability these days. The M16 can do 10,000 to 15,000 rounds before it needs service. Why are you going to make a game where the Rifle breaks after 9 or 10 magazines?
Instead it should be malfunctions based on how clean the rifles are. Make it so it's a good idea to clean the rifle after every mission. It would be more realistic if you had to field strip your rifle and click on "Clean Part". Also include the magazines, those will malfunction if dirty also.

[Headshot-Deluxe]

Yeah, weapon "durability" in games has always been weird, except for in Stalker Gamma. Just make it so you can use a repair kit to fix/clean the gun when it gets too low on "durability" if you really have to have it in game.

[boris.glevrk]

Uh, do we even know how the durability system is going to be like?
maybe it's actually going to be the same as you described.

[SpectralFX]

Originally posted by MercyBeat:

I hate how developers are putting in weapon durability these days. The M16 can do 10,000 to 15,000 rounds before it needs service. Why are you going to make a game where the Rifle breaks after 9 or 10 magazines?
Instead it should be malfunctions based on how clean the rifles are. Make it so it's a good idea to clean the rifle after every mission. It would be more realistic if you had to field strip your rifle and click on "Clean Part". Also include the magazines, those will malfunction if dirty also.

On god, he gets it.

If anthing, make certain parts from guns on NPC weared down, but not the entire thing.

If the devs want to limit how many guns we get from NPCs... just make Bosses have good guns only.

But realistically, IF I BEAT THAT AIMBOT FULL AUTO on High diff... its my gun now. Don't deny us our rewards.

In other games its so ridiculous that when the weapon is in the NPC's hands, it performs perfectly almost... but if you pick it up... then its messed up?

Like maybe have the occasional Trashed out SKS on "starter" maps to explain how bad their aim is... but strong NPC with legitimate good aim should have... you guessed it... well maintained weapons!

[Lord-Knight Fandragon]

Only thing I hate about durability is how fast the weapon degrades and how insanely fast the penalties start to hit.

In Tarkov, I picked up some guns that were in the 80%. The 1911 I found, in 1 single 7 round mag, it jammed like 3x. I picked up an AK74, it jammed about 3x in 30 rounds. Picked up an M4, jammed about 3x in 30 rounds.....like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.....

Jam chance should be like 100-90%: 0% chance, 89-70%: 1%, 69-40%: 3%, 39-20: 5%, 20% and lower: 10%. Games never really make it viable to run the gun lower than 100%, making the whole durability system nothing but a pointless material sink, rather than anything to really play around. Its just like any mech game, make sure you click repair at the end of every battle......becomes nothing but a pointless thing....

Itd also be neat if lower durability also reduced accuracy, increased reload, maybe made your scope lens a bit dusty, maybe cracked as durability got lower.

I also hate when durability means your piece eventually just breaks and can no longer be fixed, ala Tarkov.....like why can I not take new pieces and fix this gun or plate carrier?

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by SpectralFX:

Originally posted by MercyBeat:

I hate how developers are putting in weapon durability these days. The M16 can do 10,000 to 15,000 rounds before it needs service. Why are you going to make a game where the Rifle breaks after 9 or 10 magazines?
Instead it should be malfunctions based on how clean the rifles are. Make it so it's a good idea to clean the rifle after every mission. It would be more realistic if you had to field strip your rifle and click on "Clean Part". Also include the magazines, those will malfunction if dirty also.

On god, he gets it.

If anthing, make certain parts from guns on NPC weared down, but not the entire thing.

If the devs want to limit how many guns we get from NPCs... just make Bosses have good guns only.

But realistically, IF I BEAT THAT AIMBOT FULL AUTO on High diff... its my gun now. Don't deny us our rewards.

In other games its so ridiculous that when the weapon is in the NPC's hands, it performs perfectly almost... but if you pick it up... then its messed up?

Like maybe have the occasional Trashed out SKS on "starter" maps to explain how bad their aim is... but strong NPC with legitimate good aim should have... you guessed it... well maintained weapons!

Originally posted by Lord-Knight Fandragon:

Only thing I hate about durability is how fast the weapon degrades and how insanely fast the penalties start to hit.

In Tarkov, I picked up some guns that were in the 80%. The 1911 I found, in 1 single 7 round mag, it jammed like 3x. I picked up an AK74, it jammed about 3x in 30 rounds. Picked up an M4, jammed about 3x in 30 rounds.....like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.....

Jam chance should be like 100-90%: 0% chance, 89-70%: 1%, 69-40%: 3%, 39-20: 5%, 20% and lower: 10%. Games never really make it viable to run the gun lower than 100%, making the whole durability system nothing but a pointless material sink, rather than anything to really play around. Its just like any mech game, make sure you click repair at the end of every battle......becomes nothing but a pointless thing....

Itd also be neat if lower durability also reduced accuracy, increased reload, maybe made your scope lens a bit dusty, maybe cracked as durability got lower.

I also hate when durability means your piece eventually just breaks and can no longer be fixed, ala Tarkov.....like why can I not take new pieces and fix this gun or plate carrier?

You guys do realize weapon/gear durability is going to be repairable at base and "rather cheap"? Devs did mention these.

[trey]

Originally posted by Lord-Knight Fandragon:

In Tarkov, I picked up some guns that were in the 80%. The 1911 I found, in 1 single 7 round mag, it jammed like 3x. I picked up an AK74, it jammed about 3x in 30 rounds. Picked up an M4, jammed about 3x in 30 rounds.....like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.....

one time I picked up an AK and fired one shot and it broke. I was running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to inspect it for a misfeed and when I opened my inventory the weapon was red. it was hilarious...and terrifying.

but yeah...this game definitely needs durability. Tarkov devs are a-holes but most of the important things required to make a decent tactical shooter they did right.

[Lord-Knight Fandragon]

Originally posted by trey:

Originally posted by Lord-Knight Fandragon:

In Tarkov, I picked up some guns that were in the 80%. The 1911 I found, in 1 single 7 round mag, it jammed like 3x. I picked up an AK74, it jammed about 3x in 30 rounds. Picked up an M4, jammed about 3x in 30 rounds.....like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.....

one time I picked up an AK and fired one shot and it broke. I was running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to inspect it for a misfeed and when I opened my inventory the weapon was red. it was hilarious...and terrifying.

but yeah...this game definitely needs durability. Tarkov devs are a-holes but most of the important things required to make a decent tactical shooter they did right.

Ill give Tarkov that, they definitely have the most......stuff and coolest of the survival/extraction shooters. Many others are so bare bones that its honestly embarrasing how boring they are. I wanna love Tarkov, but just find the way the AI are so annoying. YOu either curb stomp them, or you get 1 tapped and I find that infuriating, the death never really feels earned, the experience with AI is so inconsistent. It never seems like you can really play well and just not die...youll be rockin along all good and 1 random bot will walk around a corner and 3 tap you with 7.62 BCP FMJ through lvl 6 vest........the quests, the inventory, and many other mechanics I find tedious af also.....plus, ive played with SPT and mods.....so many QOL and changes made with those that its hard to even consider playing vanilla or without those mods. Also, the game runs like total ass, the amount of fanagling you gotta do to get the game to even a baseline of playable is unreal......at best I can eek 20-45 FPS out of it....a game 2 years older than my CPU chokes out my CPU...I find that goofy.

I long for another one of these extraction shooters to get even remotely close to Tarkov's depth....the armor mechanics, the amount of armors, guns, attachments, etc....their maps are also pretty cool.

Ive played Deadside, that game is just so boring it actually hurts. IRR is just new and doesnt have alot of stuff in it yet, so I honestly got a bored of it as i wait until it matures more....

[trey]

I quit Tarkov for a while and went back to it this year and stuck with the SPT mod and it's been great for the most part. I'll probably jump back into the vanilla game when 1.0 releases

Optimization is damn near non existent and is what I hate most about that game. and then I've probably Alt F4ed out the game 100 times but even with its flaws its the best extraction shooter by a landslide. I don't care if IRR copies everything from Tarkov...if the game runs smooth and has enough to do then I'm cool with that. Every other extraction shooter I played couldn't hold my interest or was just lacking something

not sure exactly what it is about Tarkov. The game is unforgiving no matter how prepared you think you might be. And it doesn't offer any instant gratification...and it would be nice if you can see exactly where you were hit when you die. I always assume the 1 shots happen when they hit an exposed body part, but that doesn't stop me from rage quitting. Having high level armor and plates and still getting 1 tapped by a scav is wild. The last time it happened I had to remind myself I've one tapped PMCs as a scav. but yeah it's still infuriating to the point I question why I still play the game

it's #1 on the market though. and things like weapon degradation, or getting 1 tapped after taking time to prepare, or the healing system.. those things aren't "fun" per se but they're pieces to the puzzle. When you put them all together they make for a great experience. If you remove those things the game gets boring.

[Lord-Knight Fandragon]

Originally posted by trey:

not sure exactly what it is about Tarkov. The game is unforgiving no matter how prepared you think you might be. And it doesn't offer any instant gratification...and it would be nice if you can see exactly where you were hit when you die. I always assume the 1 shots happen when they hit an exposed body part, but that doesn't stop me from rage quitting. Having high level armor and plates and still getting 1 tapped by a scav is wild. The last time it happened I had to remind myself I've one tapped PMCs as a scav. but yeah it's still infuriating to the point I question why I still play the game
.

The part I find infuriating and confusing is how Ill bring BCP FMJ in my M60E6, ill meet scavs wearing lvl 2-4 armor and ill have to put upwards of 15-30 rounds into single scavs, but they will down me in like, at most, 10 hits. Keep in mind also, that I buffed my character health. I at one point had as much as 1500 total health, that was like 300 thorax, 250 on my head, and like 150-200ish on my limbs and STILL id go down in substantially fewer bullets than scavs wearing worse armor with 2/3 less health while im wearing a Gen 4 full(Lv3 soft armor+Lv 6 plates in all slots). Hell, I once died from full to dead in 3 bullets of BCP FMJ to my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ARM........like excuse me? Never mind also, that I had massively nerfed their accuracy, scatter, recoil and ergo penalties.....upwards of 3x in SAIN....

Hell, ive had to put, no joke, 120 rounds of 556 into Tagilla before he went down, but he was just about killing me in like 5. YOu might say im missing my target, but indeed im not...I have a hit marker mod so I know when I hit, I also fire in bursts and from not terribly far away......hell, I once had to put 12 rounds of 556 directly into the chest of a scav wearing no armor at all.......

TLDR: The TTK between bots and my PMC dont make any sense and thats why ive quit........the BS off the wall deaths are just stupid.

[trey]

Originally posted by Lord-Knight Fandragon:

Hell, I once died from full to dead in 3 bullets of BCP FMJ to my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ARM........like excuse me? Never mind also, that I had massively nerfed their accuracy, scatter, recoil and ergo penalties.....upwards of 3x in SAIN....

it's crazy you mentioned that M60 I was editing a video for it earlier. Fastest way to kill someone is shoot them in the leg they'll go down in like 1-2 hits, but I guess the arm works too. lmao

Don't get me started on Tagilla. Dude never skips chest day...or cardio day. I did kill him once because I was lucky and opened a door and his back was turned so I blew his back out (pause)...I looted him and put his helmet on then got killed. I had to quit playing after that.

but yeah...your reason for quitting is 100% justified. The problem with some games is they add so many factors into making the game realistic...like the armor levels, how far you are from your target, what kind of projectile you're using, the angle the projectile hits the target...♥♥♥♥...what you ate for breakfast...

I'm not going out my way to study everything that affects the TTK because I'm pretty sure there's just too much going on for me to bother with..

I still enjoy the game but the ♥♥♥♥ is definitely frustrating. I couldn't get SAIN working after the last update but I may have to give it another shot

[Valec]

Yep, I was just about to buy this when I saw weapon jamming on their roadmap.

No thanks!

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Valec:

Yep, I was just about to buy this when I saw weapon jamming on their roadmap.

No thanks!

keep your weapons maintained and stay away from direct impingement and you should be fine.

tbh I have no idea why people are so mad about durability. It's not gonna be dead expensive (and we are already having too much money).

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by MercyBeat:

The M16 can do 10,000 to 15,000 rounds before it needs service..

Uh actually it's more like 6000~10000 for barrel life and needs cleaning in between.
You should probably clean a DI firearm after each firing session or a few hundreds of rounds, and you need a new barrel every 6000~10000 rounds. If you fire a lot of rounds in a short time (overheating) and/or you fire AP rounds like the M995, expect a barrel life closer to 3000~5000 rounds.

[n0v1k4n3]

Im not a huge fan of durability, but im also not purely against it. I think I am mostly curious to know how the mechanic will be implemented.

Something more forgiving and manageable than Tarkov or Day Z. Tarkov's was pretty good (i have not played in many many patches), minus the max durability degradation when repairing, but I ran fresh guns and obsessively maintained equipment, While Day Z's is almost over-tuned, mag dump and your weapon is already damaged or lowered a durability level.

This is a bit of speculation, but from the dev updates it seems the malfunctions will be based on two metrics, the weapon's current condition and current heat/temp of the weapon parts. Would seem manageable, or even unnoticeable, with proper maintenance.

Hopefully no max durability drop after repairs!

[Lord-Knight Fandragon]

Originally posted by n0v1k4n3:

Im not a huge fan of durability, but im also not purely against it. I think I am mostly curious to know how the mechanic will be implemented.

Something more forgiving and manageable than Tarkov or Day Z. Tarkov's was pretty good (i have not played in many many patches), minus the max durability degradation when repairing, but I ran fresh guns and obsessively maintained equipment, While Day Z's is almost over-tuned, mag dump and your weapon is already damaged or lowered a durability level.

This is a bit of speculation, but from the dev updates it seems the malfunctions will be based on two metrics, the weapon's current condition and current heat/temp of the weapon parts. Would seem manageable, or even unnoticeable, with proper maintenance.

Hopefully no max durability drop after repairs!

If we get a durability system I want one where the weapon can be fixed back to 100, screw Tarkovs degradation system. Also, not one where we need to find individual components, but rather just weapon parts in general, just like "Weapon parts" from scrapping weapons. Also, not one like Deadside, where every 100 rounds is like 5% of the gun. Every 100 rounds is maybe 1%....