Thoughts on how NVGs are implemented

[interrupt]

I find them very claustrophobic - my peripheral vision is restricted to the point where it is like having tunnel vision. Maybe this is how they are IRL?

A flashlight is much preferable and given that the NPCs don't seem to see the light, what is the point of the NVGs?

I'm going to practise more with them because I want to like using them on raids but it doesn't seem possible with the current implementation. I tried the "Full screen NVG" mod but it doesn't seem to work with the current game build.

Do you guys use the NVGs?

thanks

[Sereglach]

Personally I don't use NVGs -in game- for similar reasons you've cited. However, yes, it is fairly accurate to using NVGs in real life.

While, ironically, the version they use in game is a 4-2 (4 optics feeding into 2 receivers, for both eyes) scope that should provide some of the best levels of peripheral vision available, using a binocular 2-2 unit or monocular 1-2 unit is very restricting to your vision. The restriction effect us much akin to looking through a telescope or pair of binoculars . . . just without any zoom amplification.

Personally, I wish we had more options for NVGs. I wouldn't mind a monocle version that only really focuses on your "shooting eye" for specific nighttime sighting, or even getting some NOD (Nighttime Observation Device) scopes for rifles so we ONLY have the effect when we're rifle sighting. Fancy ones can even toggle their light amplification on a whim, which would be even better. I think they showed off working on NOD scopes in one of the last development videos, so there's hope for that, at least.

A monocular 1-1 would be nice to have because you're only putting the NVG effect through one eye, leaving the other to adjust to the natural light levels around you and also leaving at least half your peripheral vision in tact. In theory it shouldn't be too difficult to implement, especially with everything else they're already working on. One can hope.

[[UA]Ramiel]

I don't like how they work and don't see any benefits of using them. They are not affected by direct light as much they should and in my case - ultrawide 21:9 monitor - they leave too much space on the sides it becomes too confusing and distracting to differ between two types of the image at the same time.

With NVG equipped you shouldn't be able to aim through any scope and even iron sight, you should combine them with IR laser, but game doesn't enforce it right now.

Bunker has a potential to make them actually useful, but amount of light sources make them unnecessary. You can shoot lamps to create total darkness, but it's not possible in some places - lamps are just not destructible for some reason. Flashlight is more than enough for this map.

Bots' vision is not affected by darkness in a slightest, so going on a night mission is putting yourself into a disadvantage and I'll never call it a challenge.

TLDR - half baked feature thrown into the game for the sake of it. Needs a lot of improvements.

[Sereglach]

Originally posted by UARamiel:

With NVG equipped you shouldn't be able to aim through any scope and even iron sight, you should combine them with IR laser, but game doesn't enforce it right now.

I don't really disagree with much else you have to say in your post . . . but the above is a very bad and uninformed take. I have no idea where you're getting that belief from, but you can absolutely use NVGs with scopes and iron sights; and that's speaking from direct military experience. Is it the best/most-comfortable setup? No, but it absolutely can be done with no real issues. Any limitation on it would explicitly be a game-y design choice.

[[UA]Ramiel]

Originally posted by Sereglach:

I don't really disagree with much else you have to say in your post . . . but the above is a very bad and uninformed take. I have no idea where you're getting that belief from, but you can absolutely use NVGs with scopes and iron sights; and that's speaking from direct military experience. Is it the best/most-comfortable setup? No, but it absolutely can be done with no real issues. Any limitation on it would explicitly be a game-y design choice.

I think we both making over-generalized statements. Some scopes/sights can be used with some NODs, but it's not neither absolutely impossible or universally adopted practice.

Scope that has 4 inches of eye relief can't be used with NOD that is longer than 4 inches.
Scope without night compatibility mode won't be a good fit to a NOD.
How would a shooter aim while using top-tier NOD with 4 tubes? which one of them should he align with the sight?

It's a complicated topic and exact answer depends on a multitude of factors.

[interrupt]

Thanks for the input - I'm glad it's not just me. Hopefully the devs work on this because it would be amazing to be able to infiltrate enemy territory in the dark using NVGs and IR.

And, even though it is not very realistic, I think a full screen NVG effect should also be an option.

My feeling is that the NPCs should be able to see flashlights and visible lasers but should not be able to see in the dark. Generally, I would love the night time stealth mechanics to be given a big re-work and to make stealth a viable option when completing raids.

[Sereglach]

Originally posted by UARamiel:

I think we both making over-generalized statements. Some scopes/sights can be used with some NODs, but it's not neither absolutely impossible or universally adopted practice.

Scope that has 4 inches of eye relief can't be used with NOD that is longer than 4 inches.
Scope without night compatibility mode won't be a good fit to a NOD.
How would a shooter aim while using top-tier NOD with 4 tubes? which one of them should he align with the sight?

It's a complicated topic and exact answer depends on a multitude of factors.

Completely fair response. Yes, some scopes with some NGVs might (*MIGHT*) be fully incompatible, but from my experience there's always a way to make it work. It just might not be a comfortable or convenient setup. However, that's also the reason I advocated for NOD scopes in my earlier post; and it appears to be something the developers are working on in their last update video.

Just a fun FYI, 4-tube NOD . . . align sight with inner NVG tube of your sighting eye. The outer tubes are meant to enhance your peripheral viewing capabilities and expand the FOV that's fed into your optics. It takes some practice before you get used to it, because it is a bit cumbersome, but it can be done. MUCH easier to do with any reflex sight.

Originally posted by interrupt:

Thanks for the input - I'm glad it's not just me. Hopefully the devs work on this because it would be amazing to be able to infiltrate enemy territory in the dark using NVGs and IR.

And, even though it is not very realistic, I think a full screen NVG effect should also be an option.

My feeling is that the NPCs should be able to see flashlights and visible lasers but should not be able to see in the dark. Generally, I would love the night time stealth mechanics to be given a big re-work and to make stealth a viable option when completing raids.

The 2-tube PVS-31s currently available in game are going to have a very restricted peripheral viewing capability. Just a fact of life. They're fairly well implemented as-is.

Really, 4-tube NVGs could/should pretty much give a full-screen experience, given video game limitations. Any GPNVG would be great to add, but of course they're INSANELY expensive . . . like 50k for a decent set. It'd also be fitting for wealthy and/or late game play . . . or maybe very rarely finding on a boss enemy.

They should also implement some 1 tube NVGs (like a PVS-14, military standard issue items) that could toggle just the center of your vision for good reflex/laser sighting. They'd also be much cheaper and far more affordable then what we have. Being a monocle sight, your peripheral is mostly untouched by natural vision and you still always have one eye that's dark-adjusted, allowing for quick adaptation to turning off your NVGs, if necessary.

However, while I agree the AI should be response to flashlights, they better be carrying their own at night. Implementing some basic clip-on flashlights (could implement a vest "utility" slot for quick-access medical or flashlights -and pressing *9* to activate- or forced to put in belt and quick-slot it) could be done. A simpler solution would be some very cheap helmet mounted flashlights for NPC and our own use . . . which would also give something to use when poor (or just starting out) and unable to fully kit out a weapon or buy NVGs for our helmet.

Meanwhile, reaction to flashlights is one thing . . . but highly visible lasers is a very video-game-y thing. Only the little dot at the laser destination is going to be visible to the naked eye, which would be extremely difficult for an enemy to notice. Personally I'd say leave it alone OR make it an extremely slow noticing speed (like 5x slower than their normal "reaction time" rate in settings).

On the other hand, if you have a really nice laser setup, you wire a pressure switch to your grip. Then it only turns on when you squeeze your thumb, or second finger, or whatever you wire it to, a little bit harder to only turn on the laser while sighting. If we were getting something like that in game, then I'd be fine with enemies noticing lasers in general.

On the other hand, as far as flashlights/lasers go, one thing I really want is one of the simple laser/flashlight combo units for handguns. Targon, TSG, Solofish, Toughsoul, Nightstick, or any of the other dozens of brands of these things. They're extremely common and tiny, so I don't understand why we don't have one. We have a combo unit for IR sighting, but not basic sighting? Come on.

[[UA]Ramiel]

Originally posted by Sereglach:

They're extremely common and tiny, so I don't understand why we don't have one. We have a combo unit for IR sighting, but not basic sighting? Come on.

Devs aren't making assets themselves, they are outsourcing weapons and environmental props. For initial release they just gobbled together a bunch of weapons they've managed to buy or license. Hell, AK-74M didn't have a default muzzle break for a couple of months. So it's not about what is reasonable to have in the game, it's about what dev can afford. Artstation can provide some insights into what's coming next to the game.