Tier-List and Max-Level Units

[Eleminat0r]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixb0wngUJR0

[BigO]

Drachenei direkt am Anfang und nochmal eins, damit es schneller levelt. Danach mehrere Drachen spielen (2-3) auf maximal level 2. Man bekommt schnell neue Dracheneier wodurch die Drachen schneller schlüpfen und durch die Drachen baut man sich pro Runde 30-40 Gold auf. --> Das mit dem Dice Tower ist unfassbar stark.

[I'm proud of you, son]

This is wrong. Iron and Bear are garbage outside of this combo, and their combo isn't even that good. Slime is good. Coffee is the best way to get Milk/Cat off the ground. Bee isn't a support tower. Horse is one of the best towers in the game, it, like all Uncommon Towers, needs Princess to accomplish anything.

Plus putting everything into S doesn't make any sense.

Butler is SSS tier, it's the closest thing we have to an instant win button.

Creating a "tier" list makes no sense anyways. To properly rank towers you need to group them by strategies, so it should be a Venn Diagram. Plus you need to group them by risk: how risky is it to try to pull off this strategy.

Thief and Chest also aren't purely Support towers. You can make a Chest/Thief/Guardian tower strat that works, since Thief loosely scales and you can combine it with the other half of your field to make something work.

This entire video is nonsense. Guardian isn't S tier, as it's absolutely worthless outside of Act 1.

[yxiaozzz]

The ranking doesnt make sense at all. What's a support tower? Does Guardian not fall into that category since it's mostly used to buff the others?
Iron, forge and bear is not S tier. You need to start with removal token or pick it, so you can transfer the HP to other towers. otherwise it does nothing after act 1. You cant even combo Iron tower with Slime tower since you wont be able to upgrade it to level 3 within a round. Forge and bear are such a specific combo, it requires Bee and an empty space to work, I had this combo work once, it feel awful tries to pull off this combo. You can do slime and bear combo, but then slime and bear should be together in the same tier.
Butler is B? If start with Butler, you won.
Dragon tower is awesome with princess. It gives gold every round, a lot of gold. Princess also combos really well with flower, so you can setup flower, princess, egg, dragon, if you are lucky with princess upgrade, you will quickly swimming in golds. Once you get dragon, you are guaranteed to get egg every round too.
Slime is not A, It requires an empty space every turn, so you are especially looking at two towers.

[I'm proud of you, son]

Shy#2528 lähetti viestin:

You are so right on everything, except that cat or coffe aren't even the best for milk strat. It's actually glass. Too bad your not trying.

Glass don't scale attack fast enough to matter in Act 2, so it's not. It's also only with Cow and even then. Assume you get Cow as your guaranteed rare halfway through Act 1, that's 15 waves max at 4 health a wave for 60 health. That means on average Glass will take down 2 enemies. That's pretty good but strictly worse than Cat with the same levels in it.

Idk what "too bad your not trying" is supposed to mean, so okay?

[Shy#2528]

Mask lähetti viestin:

Shy#2528 lähetti viestin:

You are so right on everything, except that cat or coffe aren't even the best for milk strat. It's actually glass. Too bad your not trying.

Glass don't scale attack fast enough to matter in Act 2, so it's not. It's also only with Cow and even then. Assume you get Cow as your guaranteed rare halfway through Act 1, that's 15 waves max at 4 health a wave for 60 health. That means on average Glass will take down 2 enemies. That's pretty good but strictly worse than Cat with the same levels in it.

Idk what "too bad your not trying" is supposed to mean, so okay?

Sry it was maybe unclear. You don't need a cow before first boss, you save up to invest after first boss where you get all rares.
Maybe it was also unclear that you think glass beat waves in act 1. That's not my point, obviously cats beat more waves but when optimising you want to barely beat the waves so opting into +10/+10 tower upgrade can be worth it...
Glass is optimal(when it comes to COST efficiency) to beat first boss, I could do the math for you here but it's kinda boring. Just look at level 2 cat vs glass
Glass starts with 8+ it's scaling of 2 per round
Cat starts with less and has the same attack scaling...
The safer variations I played all included cat, you are right on almost everything again but you don't see my point xD
I meant too bad you rather accuse me of cheating than trying

[I'm proud of you, son]

Shy#2528 lähetti viestin:

I meant too bad you rather accuse me of cheating than trying

After I read your description on your photo I realized that it was actually possible. I didn't think of the Power Up token into Construction hat. Cows is also probably the very last strat I have to try in the game, I've pretty much won with every other tower combination possible.

Glass isn't optimal for beating the first boss, Mosquito is. I'd put Guardian > Mosquito > Glass for the common towers that you can throw down for 1-2 slots on your field for guaranteeing clearing Act 1 probably. The comparison between the numbers of how level 2 vs level 3 glass scales compared to cat with 2 milks on it is trivial minutiae.

[Shy#2528]

Mask lähetti viestin:

Shy#2528 lähetti viestin:

I meant too bad you rather accuse me of cheating than trying

After I read your description on your photo I realized that it was actually possible. I didn't think of the Power Up token into Construction hat. Cows is also probably the very last strat I have to try in the game, I've pretty much won with every other tower combination possible.

Glass isn't optimal for beating the first boss, Mosquito is. I'd put Guardian > Mosquito > Glass for the common towers that you can throw down for 1-2 slots on your field for guaranteeing clearing Act 1 probably. The comparison between the numbers of how level 2 vs level 3 glass scales compared to cat with 2 milks on it is trivial minutiae.

"Guaranteed clearing" is fine and i respect you as a fellow player who finished with all strats as well but when you play even more and finish the boss every time anyways you star
t to calculate at round 5 if you beat the boss with the least amount of investments so you have 40+ money after it. And it's just mathematically better to opt into glass (COST EFFICIENCY). Sry dude but go disprove it if you are so confident...

Here is a little sketch:
2 glass2 start with 22-24 total and get +4 each round for about 7/8 rounds, that is 50-56 value for only 18 gold
If you try to reach it with one milk, obviously no chance.
So let's say you have 2 milk into one cat2, that is 21 gold for the same scaling but like 15 dmg INITIAL tower stats less, in total about 35-41 for 21 gold.

I mean, yeah, nice you are on the right path and want to try instead of accusing of cheating. But you could be thankful and do math yourself or JUST TRYING before posting nonsense again....

[I'm proud of you, son]

Shy#2528 lähetti viestin:

"Guaranteed clearing" is fine and i respect you as a fellow player who finished with all strats as well but when you play even more and finish the boss every time anyways you star
t to calculate at round 5 if you beat the boss with the least amount of investments so you have 40+ money after it. And it's just mathematically better to opt into glass. Sry dude but go disprove it if you are so confident...

Here is a little sketch:
2 glass2 start with 22-24 total and get +4 each round for about 7/8 rounds, that is 50-56 value for only 18 gold
If you try to reach it with one milk, obviously no chance.
So let's say you have 2 milk into one cat2, that is 21 gold for the same scaling but like 15 dmg INITIAL tower stats less, in total about 35-41 for 21 gold.

I mean, yeah, nice you are on the right path and want to try instead of accusing of cheating. But you could be thankful and do math yourself or JUST TRYING before posting nonsense again....

Okay at this point you're just an idiot. You keep talking like all these things are guaranteed. You want to slap down two level 2 glass towers? What if you don't roll them? Plus what, you're going to get the removal token for the Royal Upgrade? Because you can't do the probability calculations?

I know all about setting up your field to beat the Act 1 Boss, I have like 200 games played in this demo lol.

Stop talking like you're somehow smarter than everyone else.

[Shy#2528]

Mask lähetti viestin:

Shy#2528 lähetti viestin:

"Guaranteed clearing" is fine and i respect you as a fellow player who finished with all strats as well but when you play even more and finish the boss every time anyways you star
t to calculate at round 5 if you beat the boss with the least amount of investments so you have 40+ money after it. And it's just mathematically better to opt into glass. Sry dude but go disprove it if you are so confident...

Here is a little sketch:
2 glass2 start with 22-24 total and get +4 each round for about 7/8 rounds, that is 50-56 value for only 18 gold
If you try to reach it with one milk, obviously no chance.
So let's say you have 2 milk into one cat2, that is 21 gold for the same scaling but like 15 dmg INITIAL tower stats less, in total about 35-41 for 21 gold.

I mean, yeah, nice you are on the right path and want to try instead of accusing of cheating. But you could be thankful and do math yourself or JUST TRYING before posting nonsense again....

Okay at this point you're just an idiot. You keep talking like all these things are guaranteed. You want to slap down two level 2 glass towers? What if you don't roll them? Plus what, you're going to get the removal token for the Royal Upgrade? Because you can't do the probability calculations?

I know all about setting up your field to beat the Act 1 Boss, I have like 200 games played in this demo lol.

Stop talking like you're somehow smarter than everyone else.

I'm done now. You can keep calling me idiot or cheater, keep providing no evidence or any calculation.
But ok you are right, because you have 200 games, won't answer toxic people anymore bye
Edit:"Guardian > Mosquito > Glass" speaks for itself...no idea about the value of empty slots....not being able to do simple addition,subtraction or multiplication....

[gustave137]

I think you two just use differtent general strat , one pla whithout remover tocken or with the least amout of it , making empty space valuable , and the other take them almost by default making his early game verry different.
Both ways are viables.

[Shy#2528]

It's viable yeah and the difference is not so easy to see but guardian is just worse than glass in general, not talking about obsidian combo
It just seems like guardian is better intuitively(for me too at first) but after testing I really didn't get why I ALWAYS got better results with glass when optimizing...then I sat down took the time to think and calculate and then it was so obvious...no one cares about the hp bonus from guardian and no one really needs it
Pls change my mind
It would mean REVERTING it after investigating data and statistics.....
The main reason guardian is bad is the way it encourages players to the wrong play-style, filling your board before the first boss whereas you can and should optimize eco to buy lots of rare towers after it

[Shy#2528]

For casual players I would also suggest to play what they feel like is the best, what gives them the best vibes and enjoyment
This is probably guardian because it saves you more crowns and feels better

[A Ballad from Nocturne]

I don't agree with much of that video, Bear is extremely situational (yes, if you get very lucky and your honey/bear build going within the first 7 rounds you are likely to win the game (unless the Dev adds mechanics to later stages that just delete all strong towers at once) due to the insane scaling, but that is a rare situation. Iron is the least useful tower in the whole game, by a mile, because it doesn't accomplish anything outside of giving it's stats to the other towers, which are then split, and on top of that you need a way to remove it instead of picking upgrades (for the royal tower) that give a more broadly applicable boost or slime tower, which again is a very situational tower to run. And if you get removal tokens (which are a valid choice ofc) you usually don't want to have to use them on an Iron Tower, since that only accomplishes anything if you sank a lot of gold into it and thus your entire investment gets wasted for a mediocre buff (health doesn't accomplish much if you don't have damage. If you have only high damage, but little health, you still will be able to potentially just trade 1 for 1 or 1 for 2, meaning you at least still win the round.

Butler basically wins you the first 2 stages by itself if you get it early, Hydra is also an all but guaranteed easy win if you stick to just using those, Snake towers and 1 Witch (which is how you scale your other towers, if you have only the royal tower as a non-repeat tower for the Frog Potion that thing usually gets at least 6-7 ticks per buy, with a decent chance at having it jump from 1 tower to the other for 15-20 times. Since you get free Hydra Towers and Snake Towers it's not even that bad to loose out on extra gold generation.

Guardian Tower is only used to buff other towers & it becomes useless after the first stage unless you are running Obsidian tower, which also is so good it all but guarantees a win if you can get it early.

Dragon Egg is 1 of the least reliable strategies, the Dragons generate gold, yeah, but they become increasingly useless the more waves spawn per round. To the point where even multiple high level Dragons can fail you at only the 2nd stage.

Forge is useless outside of the honey build, it costs too much money to level up, for an effect that basically falls off towards the end of stage 1. It can be used to buff Mosquitos, too, and it can ofc help get your build of the ground if you get rid of the Forge later, but that's not an S tier kinda deal.

[Drachnon]

Forge combo's well with Slime tower, especially level 2+ forge. But yes it's pretty situational and definitely not S tier.

I don't think Witch belongs in S tier either, she's good but not S. Maybe if there was a way to discount the potions she'd be S Tier but right now you have to invest a lot of money to benefit from her (or play a very specific build with Witch + 8x Hydra).

The biggest issue with the list are probably the Butler and Dice towers. Which IMO at least are probably the strongest towers in the game. Butler has really strong scaling for a tower of your choice, and that choice should be Mosquito because it will never stop being a good combo.

Dice tower has the highest stats to gold ratio in the game and gets free bonus stats for every reroll you do. I'm not sure if Eleminat0r plays differently from me but I reroll a lot and those stats do add up. And then there's the 4x Dice tower + 2x Clover build which is probably one of the consistently strongest builds I've found so far.

[Shy#2528]

Drachnon lähetti viestin:

Forge combo's well with Slime tower, especially level 2+ forge. But yes it's pretty situational and definitely not S tier.

I don't think Witch belongs in S tier either, she's good but not S. Maybe if there was a way to discount the potions she'd be S Tier but right now you have to invest a lot of money to benefit from her (or play a very specific build with Witch + 8x Hydra).

The biggest issue with the list are probably the Butler and Dice towers. Which IMO at least are probably the strongest towers in the game. Butler has really strong scaling for a tower of your choice, and that choice should be Mosquito because it will never stop being a good combo.

Dice tower has the highest stats to gold ratio in the game and gets free bonus stats for every reroll you do. I'm not sure if Eleminat0r plays differently from me but I reroll a lot and those stats do add up. And then there's the 4x Dice tower + 2x Clover build which is probably one of the consistently strongest builds I've found so far.

Witch is only op in no reroll runs and there was a time where rerolls were not yet in the game, maybe that's why it's overrated sometimes

True Dice is very strong and consistent but I doubt that clover tower is worth it, especially if you are maximizing eco with the extra slots in act3