Zombies / Hammerites won't follow me into water any more?

[frostdiamond]

I remember back in the old game (can't remember if it was Gold or not), I could trick zombies and hammeries from Cragscleft into water with me, therefore killing them. I noticed in Steam's Gold version with TFix 1.20a, these enemies would just stand on the shore and not follow me?

[ps47.3dfx]

TFix - making zombies smarter.

[frostdiamond]

ps47.3dfx eredeti hozzászólása:

TFix - making zombies smarter.

So it IS true then. Alright, I thought I was experiencing a glitch.

[ps47.3dfx]

you were experiencing it when you were able to make them drown themselves, actually.

[frostdiamond]

ps47.3dfx eredeti hozzászólása:

you were experiencing it when you were able to make them drown themselves, actually.

Oh that's too bad lol. I quite enjoy drowning zombies! Man, now I have to use holy water arrows lol.

[😎 𝓣𝓪𝓯𝓯𝒆𝓻𝔀𝓸𝓬𝓴𝔂 😎]

Was this Newdark or TFix's fault? Personally I think anyone who thinks of doing this should be rewarded for their cleverness. Zombies are dumb anyway.

[ps47.3dfx]

it's an exploit based on a bug - the zombies were never meant to do that. I think it's a combo fix - NewDark fixing AIs breathing with their torsos, and TFix making sure they won't get into water clumsily (AIs are not supposed to do that in Dark, bad things happen when they do).

this has been discussed before, and the conclusion was - bugs will get fixed, and "it was possible to exploit like that since the dawn of times" will never be a valid argument. and yeah, some people will complain, but those few are always free to not use the patcher.

the most hilarious complaint was that unconscious AIs don't scream anymore when being tortured by the player (they do in vanilla). we suggested a therapy.

[😎 𝓣𝓪𝓯𝓯𝒆𝓻𝔀𝓸𝓬𝓴𝔂 😎]

The breathing from the torsos thing is obviously a silly bug and I guess if AIs going into water causes more issues I can see why you changed it. I suppose the water can still be used to your advantage- as a means of hiding from enemies, but not to kill them.

The other debate is: can zombies drown? We don't really know enough about Thief's zombies to know if they need oxygen anyway!

The unconscious screaming was hilarious, but also pretty stupid- although in all fairness I've never seen someone be tortured unconscious so how could I know how they react? ;)
I'm pretty sure I've heard them do this in Tafferpatched Thief 2 though.

[ps47.3dfx]

considering the level of decay seen on the zombie model and the concept art, it is almost certain that they are completely powered by (necromantic) magic and require no oxygen at all.

as for the unconscious torture, enough of it would wake the person up, but such functionality would require massive changes to the gamesys, and frankly is not worth doing just because of one sadistic lunatic.

not quite sure how TafferPatcher handles this (just a small contributor there), but as the fixed gamesys was handled by the same person I would assume T2 gamesys got the same treatment. not that it matters, as the very few T2 zombies are nowhere near water.

FMs usually have their own gamesys, so this is upon the FM author to decide.

[frostdiamond]

Some in-depth discussion. Thanks guys, every educational.

[😎 𝓣𝓪𝓯𝓯𝒆𝓻𝔀𝓸𝓬𝓴𝔂 😎]

Yes, the decay doesn't suggest they have lungs, but they do make breathy sounds. Perhaps these are magical too?

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with the waking up stuff- as if they did wake up they'd be on low health anyway. Perhaps it's an idea for the dark mod to use.

Yes, I think it was FMs I've had the screaming. If those FMs were compiled under OldDark (which most are), that would make sense.

[frostdiamond]

Speaking of FMs-----------assuming I have Steam version of Thief Gold + TFix 1.20a, how do I play FMs?

[ps47.3dfx]

you need to manually activate FMselect[www.systemshock.org]. I need to make this selectable in the patcher.

the zombie sounds just suggest some sort of air movement through the throat parts (or what is left of them). doesn't have to necessarily be lungs.

[frostdiamond]

ps47.3dfx eredeti hozzászólása:

you need to manually activate FMselect[www.systemshock.org]. I need to make this selectable in the patcher.

the zombie sounds just suggest some sort of air movement through the throat parts (or what is left of them). doesn't have to necessarily be lungs.

Of course you a fan of System Shock 2, too. Surprise surprise.

I've installed this game, but haven't had a chance to play it. I heard it's just as scary as Thief, if not more.

[ps47.3dfx]

it's a different kind of scary though, the kind that crawls under your skin and wraps around your spine.

boo.

[😎 𝓣𝓪𝓯𝓯𝒆𝓻𝔀𝓸𝓬𝓴𝔂 😎]

System Shock 2 is like Thief if it didn't let up on the horror or give you much breathing room. It's creepy and tense as hell.

I can only encourage you to try some Thief FMs; I'd start with Thief2X: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144804