Is it just me, or is Sarmiento just kind of bad compared to the other weapons?

[PizzaSHARK]

Specifically, it feels like there are some huge issues with the weapon's basic design. It's built around doing low damage until charged, then high damage once charged, and you lose charges for taking damage. High reward, high risk. That's fine.

What isn't fine is that this weapon is in a game where most enemies damage you for touching them and not just their attacks. Worse still, is many of the specific abilities of Sarmiento can put you into situations where taking contact damage is unavoidable.

Block and attack, enemy is inside your hitbox by the end, you take contact damage. Parry and riposte an attack and the thrust leaves you inside an enemy's hitbox, and you take contact damage. The air attacks have a unique property of bouncing you back slightly, but the bounce does not produce enough vertical distance to avoid falling into the enemy and taking contact damage before you can swing again, nor does it provide much horizontal distance to allow you to avoid the enemy on the way down.

It doesn't help that the weapon has the least coverage of the three, with numerous blind spots. You get some abilities to help with this, like the R1 air attack you can unlock. But these consume your buff charges! So they do a bit more damage, in a more convenient area of effect, and then you're back to doing garbage damage until you buff up again. Or your most reliable and safest generator, sacred lunge, becomes a *spender* if you buy the upgrade for it. Considering the difficulty of excelling with Sarmiento compared to the other weapons, why even have these abilities consume charges? They should be free to use, as a reward for generating and keeping buff charges.

I don't get it. Why would you dump the previously functional system of "one weapon that does it all and you buy new abilities and effects for it over time" with the three-weapon system if you aren't going to properly balance test and tune them? Veredicto is hilariously overpowered in general (possessing the qualities of high damage, high reach, high hitstun, high fervor generation, and lacking only the ability to block... but then also getting a substantial defense boost in the first tier) and I've heard store brand mea culpa gets really crazy at tier 3. So why didn't they bother balancing and tuning the third option?

Why should Sarmiento be such a pain in the ass to use to achieve barely more than what you can do just mashing attack and occasionally bunnyhopping over attacks with Veredicto?

[Hexo Mia]

That weapon has to be the most broken weapon in this game when it comes to damage, I killed every boss with it, once you level it up and get some statue combinations going, sarmiento is really busted, not to mention the dash attack have such a massive invisibility frame, you can pretty much cheese some of the bosses with it.

Is mostly personal preference, I barely used Veredicto, if any, I found it slow, you cant parry with it, and his animation is bugged AF, the other sword is just a lesser version of the previous game sword.

[Ich-Henker]

i agree with you - combined with the fact that you cannot hit crouching enemies with it while standing while the other sword can and the other sword even blocks better ... i adored the first game, this i start to despise.

[almurat89]

Well, if we will compare the best DPS builds for each weapon and put them against the final boss, e.g., so results are going to be: rapiers, sword, mace. Where S&C would provide the best damage output.

[Antorius]

Originally posted by Ich-Henker:

i agree with you - combined with the fact that you cannot hit crouching enemies with it while standing while the other sword can and the other sword even blocks better ... i adored the first game, this i start to despise.

I will definitely agree insofar as crouching enemies are concerned. I have a save-file where I started with the rapier, and those little stabbing enemies are ridiculously annoying.

[Hexo Mia]

Originally posted by Antorius:

Originally posted by Ich-Henker:

i agree with you - combined with the fact that you cannot hit crouching enemies with it while standing while the other sword can and the other sword even blocks better ... i adored the first game, this i start to despise.

I will definitely agree insofar as crouching enemies are concerned. I have a save-file where I started with the rapier, and those little stabbing enemies are ridiculously annoying.

if you learn the parry timing with those little enemies you can just insta kill them with the rapier, so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4skAiMtlgAA

[PizzaSHARK]

Originally posted by almurat89:

Well, if we will compare the best DPS builds for each weapon and put them against the final boss, e.g., so results are going to be: rapiers, sword, mace. Where S&C would provide the best damage output.

Standing and DPSing then yeah, the rapier wins out. But the problem is that taking damage dramatically cuts rapier DPS, and many of its best skills *also* cut its DPS, and in one case, it's not even an option. You have to choose to use attack+R1 or midair R1 which consume charges, but the dodge thrust always consumes one even if you would prefer it not to.

It makes me wish you could unlock those useless "upgrades" for the achievement and then revert them so that you aren't penalizing yourself.

[almurat89]

Originally posted by PizzaSHARK:

>Standing and DPSing then yeah, the rapier wins out.
It's not just going to win out, it's going to WIN OUT. By twice, I guess. I can beat the final boss for 45 seconds with S&C, and at least 90-100 would take it with a sword.

>But the problem is that taking damage dramatically cuts rapier DPS
Only if you lose the last stack, yeah, but if you take damage with three of them, it's gonna decrease from 50 to 45, so it's not a big deal. 

But regarding...
>and many of its best skills *also* cut its DPS, and in one case, it's not even an option.
These "best" skills I would recommend avoiding completely.) And if you want a dash-strike boost, you may have a good use for it. Maybe. And Silver Cross may have a good job finishing foes off. But most bottom-right sucks so bad, so there's literally no situation where it makes a profit. This one gonna make you weaker by a lot. Actually, the whole bottom line of skills is very questionable. And if the first 2 of them are fine, but the last 2 make me use these respective actions less than I did before acquiring them.

>it's not even an option.
It must be an option, IMO.

[Naewyng]

I mean this just reinforces the fact that contact damage SHOULD NOT exist in games like this, except for enemies where it makes sense (like enemies with spikes, or slimes and stuff like that).

Contact damage was a mechanic introduced in the 8 bit era (maybe even earlier), and the only reason it exists, is because there physically weren't enough resources to have attack animations for all enemies, so hitting you on contact was all they could do.

This is no longer the case.

This hasn't been the case since the 16 bit era, to be honest.

Developers, please stop implementing this sh*tty system, literally every potential 10/10 platformer is at most a 9/10 because of this crap.

[Antorius]

Originally posted by Winterkalte:

Sounds like the real issue is that veredicto is just OP.

Unpopular opinion(?): at least until they implement difficulty settings (not a fan of this idea, to be honest), it may not be a bad thing to have easy, medium and hard weapons -- so to speak -- instead of all being perfectly tuned and balanced relative to each other.

[Naewyng]

Originally posted by Antorius:

Originally posted by Winterkalte:

Sounds like the real issue is that veredicto is just OP.

Unpopular opinion(?): at least until they implement difficulty settings (not a fan of this idea, to be honest), it may not be a bad thing to have easy, medium and hard weapons -- so to speak -- instead of all being perfectly tuned and balanced relative to each other.

I agree. In fact it's quite impossible to PERFECTLY balance all 3 weapons, such that they are "equally difficult".

You either change them to such a degree that gameplay is indistinguishable with them, or are stuck in an endless loop of balancing that never stops, because it doesn't matter how much you balance them, one of them WILL come out on top, and whatever made it better will be exploited, then it will be nerfed, then something else will come up on top, rinse and repeat.

[PizzaSHARK]

Originally posted by Antorius:

Originally posted by Winterkalte:

Sounds like the real issue is that veredicto is just OP.

Unpopular opinion(?): at least until they implement difficulty settings (not a fan of this idea, to be honest), it may not be a bad thing to have easy, medium and hard weapons -- so to speak -- instead of all being perfectly tuned and balanced relative to each other.

I think it would have been better to not have three separate weapons instead, considering the system we had with Mea Culpa worked quite well to begin with. But that ship has sailed, obviously.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Winterkalte:

Originally posted by PizzaSHARK:

I think it would have been better to not have three separate weapons instead, considering the system we had with Mea Culpa worked quite well to begin with. But that ship has sailed, obviously.

I 100% agree with you.

Except each weapon has a platform ability something the original games weapon didn't have, IMO Mea Culpa has alot of redundant upgrades compared to the sequels weapons.

[Naewyng]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Originally posted by Winterkalte:

I 100% agree with you.

Except each weapon has a platform ability something the original games weapon didn't have, IMO Mea Culpa has alot of redundant upgrades compared to the sequels weapons.

What do you mean? Other than the traversal abilities, mea culpa had every ability these new weapons have xD

[MyCrabIsFight]

You're right it's poop from a butt compared to the other weapons unless you never get hit ever

[PizzaSHARK]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Originally posted by Winterkalte:

I 100% agree with you.

Except each weapon has a platform ability something the original games weapon didn't have, IMO Mea Culpa has alot of redundant upgrades compared to the sequels weapons.

You could simply add the traversal qualities to Mea Culpa through shrines or other upgrades.