[SPOILERS] Story discussion

[Naewyng]

So the story in this game IMO makes less sense than in the first one.

Why do we have a wooden arm?

Why did Crisanta kill herself (and why is her body fresh even though it's implied that eons passed since blasphemous 1)?

Why doesn't nobody even mention the high wills anymore?

On that point, why do we even need to kill the miracle's incarnation? So far from what we understood from blasphemous 1, the miracle is just a force of nature, and the high wills used the miracle to be ♥♥♥♥♥.
Why do we need to kill it's incarnation? Who should supposedly have higher brain functions and not be a ♥♥♥♥, nor be random and transform people in trees.

What happened to the Amanecida from the first game? Is it canon that we beat them? Or are they still buried deep underground, awaiting the sound of the saeta?

Also what happened to the green ball scratching man that guides you in the first game, Deogracias? Why is he a rock now?

And finally, who tf is "the first penitent" and why wasn't he mentioned AT ALL in the first game? I was under the impression that the first penitent was the father, who begged for punishment until he became a tree...

[jaderpansen]

no idea man.
but i somehow assumed the first penitent was the protagonist from part one? didn't he, like, sit on the throne on some endings?

[RIG-801]

The "first penitent" came out from the left field entirely. I'm also not sure how the high wills even still exist if we killed them in Wounds of Eventide.

[ZexxCrine]

I can't answer all of these but I can answer some

why do we have a wooden arm?
I assume the answer is simply that most of the penitent's body is wooden. the penantent has been warped by the miracle to be kept alive or resurrected. when you die you kind of send splinters out and then burn up. the rest of your form is just concealed. this is all guessing tho

my assumption is that she did it so that her sword would be there as it was necessary to reach the incarnation

the high wills are dead. we killed them in the last game.

I feel like the game's 2 endings both do a decent job of explaining why you must fight the incarnation personally.
either B the incarnation must be baptised in holy pain which is a constant theme of of the miricle in order to warp and be reborn alongside the penatent as a new high will-like entity
or A the incarnation of the miracle must be killed as it represents the miracle itself and thus its death can finally bring an end to the miricle

the first penitant probably has something to do with the general religious practice of the various vows of penance that have been present since b1. our penantant is of the brotherhood of silence for instance and crisanta is part of some order that blinds themselves. there is no reason to think their wouldn't be more if 2 exist and those 2 that we do know about probably sprang up as branches of an older organization probably founded upon the penance of the first penitent. other than that observation I have no idea who he is.

[.wolf]

Isn't the first penitent just the guy from the first game, from the ending where he takes a seat atop the mountain of ash? Isn't he waiting until this moment when a new miracle happens and tries to prevent us from interfering?

[RIG-801]

It makes no sense to be the guy from the first game. Why would the guy from 2 wake up in a coffin held by a Deogracias statue and have a wooden hand (which is very much tied to the miracle / twisted one from 1) unless he was still the same penitent?

[Naewyng]

Originally posted by RIG-801:

It makes no sense to be the guy from the first game. Why would the guy from 2 wake up in a coffin held by a Deogracias statue and have a wooden hand (which is very much tied to the miracle / twisted one from 1) unless he was still the same penitent?

Yes I know we're playing as the same penitent one :)

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

I can't answer all of these but I can answer some

why do we have a wooden arm?
I assume the answer is simply that most of the penitent's body is wooden. the penantent has been warped by the miracle to be kept alive or resurrected. when you die you kind of send splinters out and then burn up. the rest of your form is just concealed. this is all guessing tho

my assumption is that she did it so that her sword would be there as it was necessary to reach the incarnation

the high wills are dead. we killed them in the last game.

I feel like the game's 2 endings both do a decent job of explaining why you must fight the incarnation personally.
either B the incarnation must be baptised in holy pain which is a constant theme of of the miricle in order to warp and be reborn alongside the penatent as a new high will-like entity
or A the incarnation of the miracle must be killed as it represents the miracle itself and thus its death can finally bring an end to the miricle

the first penitant probably has something to do with the general religious practice of the various vows of penance that have been present since b1. our penantant is of the brotherhood of silence for instance and crisanta is part of some order that blinds themselves. there is no reason to think their wouldn't be more if 2 exist and those 2 that we do know about probably sprang up as branches of an older organization probably founded upon the penance of the first penitent. other than that observation I have no idea who he is.

Also the biggest question is: why would the miracle keep resurrecting us, if we're out and about to kill it's incarnation?

From the dialogue in the game it's made clear that the miracle is very weakened and it's on it's last legs, and this incarnation is it's "final attempt" at doing something. Why would it keep reviving us when we're obviously trying to kill it's incarnation?

[RIG-801]

This is big leap, but considering the final scene from the good ending where the twisted one is generally occupying the biggest space, would it make sense for him to be the one that initiated the resurrection? I'm basing this from the voice in the the beginning where we see Crisanta fall down, stabbed. The voice says "while yours slumbers, mine remains vigilant".

Would that voice be the miracles? Some other thing that is behind the miracle that we have never seen (and maybe will see in a dlc)? Was it the first penitent?

[ZexxCrine]

Originally posted by Naewyng:

Why would it keep reviving us when we're obviously trying to kill it's incarnation?

the entire plot of the first game worked like this as well

the miracle is both the thing you are fighting against and the thing that sends you to fight it. it doesn't really care if you succeed because it is both sides of the conflict. the world is a complete slave to the miracle because literally nothing in the world prior to the end of blasphemous 2 happens without the miracle both setting everything into motion and bringing it to a conclusion. there is no free will until the penitent one passes the final trial it set to kill itself. this is among many reasons the miracle is called capricious in the credits.

[SeekerHammerdin]

For the arm, I just thought that since this game follows the true ending of the first, we'd have fully grown the thorn from the first game into the Cvstodia of Sin and that's what's wrapped around or fused into our arm after all this time. When the penitent does executions I see vines that are covered in thorns, which seems like it fits.

[Naewyng]

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

Originally posted by Naewyng:

Why would it keep reviving us when we're obviously trying to kill it's incarnation?

the entire plot of the first game worked like this as well

the miracle is both the thing you are fighting against and the thing that sends you to fight it. it doesn't really care if you succeed because it is both sides of the conflict. the world is a complete slave to the miracle because literally nothing in the world prior to the end of blasphemous 2 happens without the miracle both setting everything into motion and bringing it to a conclusion. there is no free will until the penitent one passes the final trial it set to kill itself. this is among many reasons the miracle is called capricious in the credits.

In the first game, from what I understood, the miracle was trying to get you to end the high wills, which was a different entity that was controlling the miracle, but in this one, it's all just the miracle.

[hauntergeist]

Originally posted by Naewyng:

On that point, why do we even need to kill the miracle's incarnation? So far from what we understood from blasphemous 1, the miracle is just a force of nature, and the high wills used the miracle to be ♥♥♥♥♥.
Why do we need to kill it's incarnation? Who should supposedly have higher brain functions and not be a ♥♥♥♥, nor be random and transform people in trees.

My take on this that I stitched together so far: I think the Miracle's intention was never really to order the Penitent to kill itself / the High Wills. In Blasphemous 1 the intention was to replace the "pope" as the last Son of the Miracle. But because you (the Penitent) discovered the 4th guilded visage and freed Crisanta you were able to thwart its plans, enter the Dream, and kill the High Wills.

Now in Blasphemous 2 the intention seem to be to inflict pain on the Miracle's new birth and create a new "High Wills" being (ending B). However, because you were able to get the Incense of Envoys the Penitent was able to change this direction and achieve Absolution of Sin.

However, I still don't understand why the Penitent One is accepted into the Canvas of Light and Time. If the Miracle is dead, so should all its creations end, right? That means all those heavenly beings, messengers, and the Canvas itself.

[Mackeriv]

I miss Deogracias.

[[Tяαgιιc] Rasputin]

If you read the lore of the item ''Rememberance of Crisanta'' it kind of explains why she killed herself.