So what's Alma and Paxton's goal with pointman?

[Ziggeop]

Just finished playing through both dlcs, and honestly I'm confused on what Alma and Paxton really want from us in the realm of the first game and the dlcs. Alma defends us a few times, but also sends out the ghost things to kill us. I remember her grabbing at pm on a ladder, what was she going for? They lead us up all the way to the top of the hospital only to destroy our chances of escape and wound us, what for?
And what's going on with the replicants? Alma kills them multiple times but nobodies controlling them, is there any explanation for that at all?

[🍉meloni]

honestly since both of the dlcs were not developed by Monolith, I consider them custom maps/non-canon anyway.

[Nexusshark]

Fettel wants Pointman to stop running and accept his fate. He probably wants a little revenge for getting a bullet in his head too. Fettel remains the psychic commander of the Replicas after being revived by Alma.

As for Alma herself, that's a bit more complicated. Basically there are now two Almas. The little girl is her spiritual form and seems to be on Pointman's side and keep him safe. The undead adult is her physical form and wants to stop Pointman. You can even see both Almas joining as one near the end. That's the last we see from her in this continuity.

[Valden21]

Revealing the true nature of it would be revealing spoilers.

Point Man and Fettel are brothers, and Alma's their mother. Her spiritual form knows this, but her undead form doesn't. That's why the two Almas have different motivations. But that's not all. Alma's full name is Alma Wade; Harlan Wade is her father, and her sister is Alice Wade.

[gamerjolt]

It makes clear sense in the first game that Alma is just unpredictable and clearly not on the point man's side at all, but extraction point made it confusing and contradictory by having Alma attack replicas for no explained reason and act like she's helping you even though she clearly tried to kill you just moments before when you were trying to escape the origin facility. Extraction point is lacking all the laptop's and voicemails like the first game had that explained what was going on story wise and filling out the details. That's the reason why you are confused about it probably.

[StreamWhenGuy]

Alma is definitely on the Pointman's side since the very beginning of the 1st game since she knows who he is (her kid). In the very first cutscene when Jankowski is talking crap about Pointman you can notice the "unknown origin" notification that usually happens when she's nearby. If she wanted to kill Pointman, she would.

[gamerjolt]

Originally posted by StreamWhenGuy:

Alma is definitely on the Pointman's side since the very beginning of the 1st game since she knows who he is (her kid). In the very first cutscene when Jankowski is talking crap about Pointman you can notice the "unknown origin" notification that usually happens when she's nearby.

That explanation doesn't make sense for two reasons. The first being if she was on your side why would she kill all your SFOD-D allies and Jankowski? The second being that she can kill the Point man at any time but then why if she was helping him would she try to even kill him at all in the first place with the ghosts when you try to escape the origin facility. It doesn't imply anywhere in F.E.A.R. 1 she's helping you. It also implies in the second laptop of interval 9 about the synchronicity event that she was influencing Paxton Fettel and in the opening cutscene we see her cause him to activate the replicas when she appears to him. So the whole replica uprising in the first game was caused by her. Which brings up the question of why in extraction point she starts attacking them. They don't even attempt an explanation of it within EP.

[Valden21]

Originally posted by gamerjolt90:

That explanation doesn't make sense for two reasons. The first being if she was on your side why would she kill all your SFOD-D allies and Jankowski? The second being that she can kill the Point man at any time but then why if she was helping him would she try to even kill him at all in the first place with the ghosts when you try to escape the origin facility. It doesn't imply anywhere in F.E.A.R. 1 she's helping you. It also implies in the second laptop of interval 9 about the synchronicity event that she was influencing Paxton Fettel and in the opening cutscene we see her cause him to activate the replicas when she appears to him. So the whole replica uprising in the first game was caused by her. Which brings up the question of why in extraction point she starts attacking them. They don't even attempt an explanation of it within EP.

Pay attention to the final cutscene, activate every laptop you find, and listen to what Betters tells you throughout the game.

There are TWO Alma's, effectively. Her spiritual essence takes the form of a little girl in a red dress, and THAT form knows who the Point Man is. THAT form is trying to protect you, so that's why she appears to you shortly before many dangerous situations; her appearance is her way of warning you.

The other Alma, who appears as a woman covered in blood, is basically undead and psychopathic; that Alma's driven by sheer rage at the world and what ATC did to her, and has no idea who you are. She goes after the replicants in EP because they're created by ATC and because Fettel's dead; he was her leash, so her actions were restrained as long as he was alive. After the events of the first game, she's not held back any longer, and her anger's let loose. She's a mother who lost her kids, and she's out for revenge.

[gamerjolt]

Originally posted by Valden21:

There are TWO Alma's, effectively. Her spiritual essence takes the form of a little girl in a red dress, and THAT form knows who the Point Man is. THAT form is trying to protect you, so that's why she appears to you shortly before many dangerous situations; her appearance is her way of warning you.

Even if we accept that there are two different Alma's, what I said previous still stands, since the same little girl Alma tries to kill you in both games and then help you all of a sudden in EP in a manner that is never explained. Little girl Alma was not trying to help you in the first game until they retconned her to do so in EP. Little girl Alma is also the one attacking the replicas in EP, not adult Alma.

[Nexusshark]

Originally posted by gamerjolt90:

Originally posted by Valden21:

There are TWO Alma's, effectively. Her spiritual essence takes the form of a little girl in a red dress, and THAT form knows who the Point Man is. THAT form is trying to protect you, so that's why she appears to you shortly before many dangerous situations; her appearance is her way of warning you.

Even if we accept that there are two different Alma's, what I said previous still stands, since the same little girl Alma tries to kill you in both games and then help you all of a sudden in EP in a manner that is never explained. Little girl Alma was not trying to help you in the first game until they retconned her to do so in EP. Little girl Alma is also the one attacking the replicas in EP, not adult Alma.

The little girl version only tries to kill Pointman once in the first game. After Pointman survives, Alma becomes curious and watches him. She didn't know that Pointman is her first son until later in the game when she says "I know who you are." Little Alma never tried to kill Pointman again. Only undead Alma did. The only difference in EP is that little Alma wasn't actively protecting Pointman in the base game, but rather just observing him.

[gamerjolt]

She does it more than once. Remember in the Armacham offices when you are crawling around the elevator shaft and she drops the elevator down right in front of you? What about when she sends the ghosts at you in the burning hospital when you have the hallucination in one of the intervals at the Armacham offices? She also literally kills your team mates in front of you in 2 different occasions, the first being when you reach the harbor, the second being when Holiday dies in EP. We can also count the replicas as another attempt since the game confirms Fettel was being influenced by Alma. She knew who you were from the beginning because in one of the earlier intervals while having a hallucination of being in the hospital you see her walking on the ceiling in the scene with one of the ghosts. She knew who Fettel was from the very beginning when he was very young in the first synchronicity event so I don't see why it would be a problem that she knows who her other son is. Furthermore, she knows you can see her, and no one else part of the F.E.A.R. team or Delta force can see Alma until the end of the game. The problem with EP is that they should've just given us a clearer explanation of things that made sense, they could have easily done it with a couple laptops or some voicemails like the first game did.

[Nexusshark]

Originally posted by gamerjolt90:

She does it more than once. Remember in the Armacham offices when you are crawling around the elevator shaft and she drops the elevator down right in front of you? What about when she sends the ghosts at you in the burning hospital when you have the hallucination in one of the intervals at the Armacham offices? She also literally kills your team mates in front of you in 2 different occasions, the first being when you reach the harbor, the second being when Holiday dies in EP. We can also count the replicas as another attempt since the game confirms Fettel was being influenced by Alma. She knew who you were from the beginning because in one of the earlier intervals while having a hallucination of being in the hospital you see her walking on the ceiling in the scene with one of the ghosts. She knew who Fettel was from the very beginning when he was very young in the first synchronicity event so I don't see why it would be a problem that she knows who her other son is. Furthermore, she knows you can see her, and no one else part of the F.E.A.R. team or Delta force can see Alma until the end of the game. The problem with EP is that they should've just given us a clearer explanation of things that made sense, they could have easily done it with a couple laptops or some voicemails like the first game did.

So many things wrong in this one. Alma can't see into Pointman's mind. Hence why the synchronicity event only worked with Fettel. Pointman is the one seeing into Alma's mind, not the other way around. Fettel is the one controlling and commanding the Replicas, not Alma. She reached out to him because she wants Fettel to free her and kill everyone from Armacham. Little Alma did indeed kill some Delta Force squadmates, but that has nothing to do with Pointman himself. She doesn't think of them as "my son's friends", she thinks of them as obstacles. She saw Pointman the same way initially, until he actually survived her attempt to kill him, which made her curious. Hence why Pointman spots her sometimes. Also, she wasn't the one who killed Holyday. Her apparitions did. And none of Alma's two versions were even present at the time, but the apparitions were mostlikely sent by the adult Alma. Fettel can also summon apparitions BTW. And Pointman is NOT the only one who can see Alma. Several characters have seen her long before she was set free. There's just only few that survived the encounter to tell the tale. The elevator may aswell have been malfunctioning. Nothing states that Alma was trying to kill you at that moment. You were even at a save distance when it happened. Alma was growing curious about Pointman, but she was not growing protective of him yet. Especially since he seemed to be doing fine on his own anyway.

Now... while I do indeed like the idea of more information in Extraction Point with more of those notebooks and voicemails, it wouldn't have made much sense in that setting. The first game was providing background information, lore. Leading up to the revelation about what's really going on behind the scenes. You're not gonna find that kind of information in a ruined, abandoned city that is literally going to hell. Besides, there's no way any character would even be able to have access to the kind of information you're asking for, because not only are these events unfolding just now (which are primarily centered between Alma and her two sons), but Alma is certainly not gonna tell some random character about her true intentions to be written down on a laptop.

[gamerjolt]

No, it's clear in the first game the hallucinations are not you seeing into Alma's mind, remember the opening scene where Harlan Wade says: "you will be a god among men." That's obviously not from Alma's mind, since he's clearing talking to the point man. Even if we consider the possibility that you are seeing into her mind, she sends the ghosts at you in a couple different versions of the hospital flashback so then why would she have any reason to think you aren't her son since no one else could possibly be able to see into her mind than her own son who has psychic abilities. Literally no one else other than Paxton Fettel and Point man can see Alma until she is released by Harlan Wade at the end of the first game. But until she gets released through 90% of the game no one can see her except them, which means that she would have had to have known that you were her son, unless she was just an idiot which makes no sense. The only people that can see her other than those two create a story contradiction. The sergeant along with the second F.E.A.R. team from Perseus Mandate are simply the product of one big retcon by different writers. The elevator falling scene in Armacham was clearly caused by Alma, right before you go inside the elevator shaft you see Alma inside the elevator as it closes, which is a pretty obvious indicator that she dropped it. You are not far away from it. Go back and play the scene you walk on the edge of the shaft and then you see it drop and hear it screech down, and right before it or after it you see an elevator being pulled upward at an extremely high speed.

Originally posted by Nexusshark:

Now... while I do indeed like the idea of more information in Extraction Point with more of those notebooks and voicemails, it wouldn't have made much sense in that setting. The first game was providing background information, lore. Leading up to the revelation about what's really going on behind the scenes. You're not gonna find that kind of information in a ruined, abandoned city that is literally going to hell. Besides, there's no way any character would even be able to have access to the kind of information you're asking for, because not only are these events unfolding just now (which are primarily centered between Alma and her two sons), but Alma is certainly not gonna tell some random character about her true intentions to be written down on a laptop.

That seems like a poor excuse, just because in the setting the city is torn up doesn't physically prevent the devs from putting voicemails in the game to help explain things. They could've easily included one about an Armacham employee working on project perseus explaining how after the synchronicity event Paxton Fettel could potentially come back and I can think of quite a few explanation that would make sense. They could've done another one where one of the researchers on project origin talks about the behavior of Alma and tie it into why she was turning against replicas. Any explanation is better than literally nothing. Instead it gives us nothing, because the lack of voicemails is not a deliberate design or story choice. The devs were just lazy in that department.

[Nexusshark]

Originally posted by gamerjolt90:

No, it's clear in the first game the hallucinations are not you seeing into Alma's mind, remember the opening scene where Harlan Wade says: "you will be a god among men." That's obviously not from Alma's mind, since he's clearing talking to the point man. Even if we consider the possibility that you are seeing into her mind, she sends the ghosts at you in a couple different versions of the hospital flashback so then why would she have any reason to think you aren't her son since no one else could possibly be able to see into her mind than her own son who has psychic abilities. Literally no one else other than Paxton Fettel and Point man can see Alma until she is released by Harlan Wade at the end of the first game. But until she gets released through 90% of the game no one can see her except them, which means that she would have had to have known that you were her son, unless she was just an idiot which makes no sense. The only people that can see her other than those two create a story contradiction. The sergeant along with the second F.E.A.R. team from Perseus Mandate are simply the product of one big retcon by different writers. The elevator falling scene in Armacham was clearly caused by Alma, right before you go inside the elevator shaft you see Alma inside the elevator as it closes, which is a pretty obvious indicator that she dropped it. You are not far away from it. Go back and play the scene you walk on the edge of the shaft and then you see it drop and hear it screech down, and right before it or after it you see an elevator being pulled upward at an extremely high speed.

Originally posted by Nexusshark:

Now... while I do indeed like the idea of more information in Extraction Point with more of those notebooks and voicemails, it wouldn't have made much sense in that setting. The first game was providing background information, lore. Leading up to the revelation about what's really going on behind the scenes. You're not gonna find that kind of information in a ruined, abandoned city that is literally going to hell. Besides, there's no way any character would even be able to have access to the kind of information you're asking for, because not only are these events unfolding just now (which are primarily centered between Alma and her two sons), but Alma is certainly not gonna tell some random character about her true intentions to be written down on a laptop.

That seems like a poor excuse, just because in the setting the city is torn up doesn't physically prevent the devs from putting voicemails in the game to help explain things. They could've easily included one about an Armacham employee working on project perseus explaining how after the synchronicity event Paxton Fettel could potentially come back and I can think of quite a few explanation that would make sense. They could've done another one where one of the researchers on project origin talks about the behavior of Alma and tie it into why she was turning against replicas. Any explanation is better than literally nothing. Instead it gives us nothing, because the lack of voicemails is not a deliberate design or story choice. The devs were just lazy in that department.

That was no hallucination, that was a memory. It baffles me that you can't even tell the difference. It follows right after Fettel asks "What's the first thing you remember...?"
Now, keep in mind that Fettel can also send those nightmare ghosts, which he mostlikely does. And he knows exactly that Pointman is his biological brother. Why would he try to kill his own brother? Probably because Pointman tries to kill him and stop him from reaching Alma, who most likely wants Fettel to succeed. Oh, and Alma was certainly seen by the Delta Force members that she liquified, given that they all tried to run away from her or shoot her. Disregarding events that happened in the same timeline because you consider them retcons makes this whole discussion moot. The very premisse of this discussion is pretty much you complaining about what you perceive as a retcon because it contradicts YOU.
But I don't cherry pick like you do. I look at everything. You choosing to ignore dialog and events in the franchise simply because of different writers is just you being in denial. So why should I continue to indulge you any further?
I have played FEAR and it's sequels more than I can count by now. I know what I've seen. So don't try to force your close minded narrative on me. The elevator was a good distance away and Alma was NOT in the elevator shaft. Pointman was. Alma was observing you from OUTSIDE the elevator as the doors close. The "Unknown Origin" promt didn't even pop up until you could literally see her outside the elevator doors. Nothing supernatural was present when the elevators malfunctioned. You thinking that Alma showing up at that moment was an indicator that she dropped the elevator on Pointman (who was outside the danger zone) doesn't make it a fact. Because the fact is this: It was a jumpscare. And here's another fact: The elevators were broken. One elevator literally lowers on it's own before you even enter the shaft. And after you jump on the elevator, you can hear it cracking and about to fall. And surprise, surprise. It falls down right after you jump off. The second elevator falls shortly after, which was said jumpscare I already mentioned. And I don't know about you, but that elevator never hit me during all of my playthroughs. It was never more than just a jumpscare. If you say that Alma was responsible for the elevators's malfunction, then you might aswell say that she helped Pointman to progress. He couldn't have progressed any further if that first elevator hadn't lowered itself.

Sure, yes, that's good ideas and all, but those would've just been retcons by different writers, so it wouldn't count anyway. Unless of course it's convenient to you, right?
Thing is, Alma was dead. Nobody at Armacham thought that Alma would be able to return as an undead psycho ghost. She was only in a coma during the first event. Of course there was always the potential of Fettel acting on his own without the need of Alma's influence. In any case, such an intel would've probably been home in the base game anyway.
As for the change in behavior, the only one to ever see that change was Pointman. Alma wasn't actively fighting the Replica forces because she was sudently on human's side (least of all Armacham), she was clearing a path for Pointman to increase his chances. No Replicas were killed by Alma during Perseus Mandate for example. And they were both made by TimeGate. There is no way in any continuity of hell that Alma would start killing Replicas so that a researcher of the very project that made her life a living hell could tell the tale. Such a researcher would either be killed by Replicas, Fettel or Alma herself long before he could ever get the chance to make such an observation, let alone write it down.
Besides, according to you, nobody in the original game could see little Alma. Apparently only her zombie body could be seen by others if we go by your logic. So you're basically asking for another retcon. :P

[Rai]

Originally posted by 鬼oni.goya:

honestly since both of the dlcs were not developed by Monolith, I consider them custom maps/non-canon anyway.

this is more or less the answer to this thread

[gamerjolt]

Originally posted by Nexusshark:

That was no hallucination, that was a memory. It baffles me that you can't even tell the difference. It follows right after Fettel asks "What's the first thing you remember...?"
Now, keep in mind that Fettel can also send those nightmare ghosts, which he mostlikely does. And he knows exactly that Pointman is his biological brother. Why would he try to kill his own brother? Probably because Pointman tries to kill him and stop him from reaching Alma, who most likely wants Fettel to succeed. Oh, and Alma was certainly seen by the Delta Force members that she liquified, given that they all tried to run away from her or shoot her. Disregarding events that happened in the same timeline because you consider them retcons makes this whole discussion moot. The very premisse of this discussion is pretty much you complaining about what you perceive as a retcon because it contradicts YOU.
But I don't cherry pick like you do. I look at everything. You choosing to ignore dialog and events in the franchise simply because of different writers is just you being in denial. So why should I continue to indulge you any further?

Except I'm not the one creating these contradictions, I'm bringing them up using the information that the game gives us and you are the one having to explain them away because it simply doesn't make sense. It was a memory but the central point about it still stands. Those opening scenes like the one I pointed out and the one you pointed help to establish that those are your experiences not Alma's. If you actually pay attention to the hallucinations later in the game it's extremely obvious you are not looking at it from Alma's perspective, but you keep looking into the hospital room and bed of where she is at, you can see this in multiple scenes. It's never implied in an explicit manner that the hallucinations are caused by looking into Alma's mind, but if I we accept the possibility that they are that doesn't explain the initial contradiction of why she was attacking the replicas in EP. She was never on your side in F.E.A.R. 1 or EP. Even in EP she attacks you, in the church at the beginning and in the hospital she sends the ghosts at you yet again.

As for the falling elevator scene, I looked up a game play video to confirm things and it turns out I was right and Alma did do it but I only had the order slightly wrong, she appears just a couple seconds after it falls. Here's a video of someone playing when the elevator falls: https://youtu.be/6U-H3Uy87S0?si=XkMnkkxd2fugrZUM&t=469 and here's the same scene but where you can actually see Alma since in the other video he looked the other way when it happens: https://youtu.be/Qy-1Ei9-DqU?si=rjjRnRfPzg9wB3_j. The elevator falls at 7:57 in the first video and a moment later you see Alma standing there in video 2 at 8:01 seconds in. There is no one else who could have caused the elevator to fall in this scene. ATC security and the replicas are not around here. Furthermore go to 7:53 in video 2 if you try to open the blocked door you get radio static and the UNKNOWN ORIGIN message in the left corner. It's pretty clear that Alma caused it. You admit it's a jump scare but say it wasn't caused by Alma, what? It almost like the spooky psychic girl is the one causing jump scares. She caused the first elevator to malfunction. You even see Alma standing in the elevator with you when you first are inside elevator 1 before you get out and before it malfunctions. I don't see the point in continuing to argue this specific point further because it seems like you are being disingenuous about it.

There's no need for any retcon that is a misrepresentation of my argument. All I did was complain about a retcon with perseus mandate, I never said we needed another retcon to fill contradictions. That is putting words into my mouth I never said. Perseus Mandate has a lot of issues, but they are different than any of the issues with EP. The problems don't have much to do with Alma or Fettel, they are only one of the issues that are small compared to the fundamental elements of PM. Additionally, my problem with EP is not about a retcon but a story contradiction which is different. A story contradiction is when a new detail or idea is added to a story that is supposed to expand on previous details but it makes previous details senseless. A retcon is just completely changing something that already exists in the story to something it wasn't originally.