In bamboo area

[Ghidrah1]

I'm not suggesting I have perfect pitch by far, and have persistent tinnitis, but the 6th and 7th pitch puzzles do not represent the generated tones, I explained the puzzle to 2 others, had them listen to them and the previous 5 and both agree.

While I'm on the bi*ching binge I have some gripes about some of the tree branch puzzles, even after cheating for the answers on 2 of them I still couldn't line the branches up so that they would prove the route through the grid.

[Ziel]

Well, you already determined that the bird noises don't match the route on the tablet, so...

yes, the sound you thought to be the distraction is actually the one containing the solution.

I'll leave it up to you to decide whether this is a bit devious or a nice little twist.

As for the temple puzzle, I'm sure that when you were trying to line up the branches to match the solution you looked up, it looked like there was a part missing. With that in mind, take another close look at the branches themselves.

Or just look on the floor because some branches snapped and that's where they landed.

[Ghidrah1]

There were distraction sounds in the prior tweet puzzles but they did not effect the outcome of the solutions. An honest representation would have been a puzzle with just the alternate sounds to prove more than one source then combine them in following puzzles.

Whether it would have changed your statement or not is debatable, as for the branch puzzles I should have been more exacting in my statement Once I cheated for the solve then positioned for the match they did not line up, not because of missing limbs but because the only way for it to work was to reposition left, right, closer or back for the errant section to realign with the solve.

Call me 2 dimensional but this is a lame method without even a wisp of a clue suggesting a repositioning for said solve.

[Ziel]

Originally posted by Ghidrah1:

There were distraction sounds in the prior tweet puzzles but they did not effect the outcome of the solutions. An honest representation would have been a puzzle with just the alternate sounds to prove more than one source then combine them in following puzzles.

That would certainly make it more obvious. Personally I think that it would trivialize the whole puzzle. I mean, you are basically giving away the trick before you perform it. But I can definitely see the argument that you don't want to be tricked in the first place.

[Ghidrah1]

Something as simple as having a subtle breeze blow through the leaves/branches to suggest a possible alternative.

[Hairy Phil]

Originally posted by Ghidrah1:

Something as simple as having a subtle breeze blow through the leaves/branches to suggest a possible alternative.

I think you're missing the point. Every puzzle is a lesson. Any time you get stuck, it is because you have invented a rule yourself (the game doesn't specify a single rule), but your rule needs refinement. The goal isn't to complete the puzzle, it's to understand what the puzzle is trying to teach you, hence why cheating doesn't actually help you progress through the game.

With the branches, your self-confessed rule was "I shouldn't have to reposition", and the lesson was "you need to look around". A breeze wouldn't have taught you that.

With the bamboo puzzle, the rule that you came up with was "I need to listen to birds", but that puzzle was teaching you "I need to listen to sounds".

[Ghidrah1]

Phil, I don't believe I'm missing the point or setting my own rules.

I didn't create the no need to reorient rule, the game did by setting the example in previous puzzles in said group.

And as for the sound puzzles, again the game set the noises as distractions, (to mask) the bird tweets in the previous puzzles and those distraction sounds had no effect on the route of the solve.

Even those problems pale with the new issue, I seem to be locked out of the game for the second time in 2 days. The game is shared by S.I.L. I get "An error occurred while updating the witness (Shared Library Locked). I created a thread in support but haven't received an answer to both incidents

[Jaguario]

With respect to rules, all the game does is decide if an input is correct or incorrect. There are no rules except the ones you create. The trick is to create and change the rules so that they lead to you making an input the game says correct. You have it completely backwards if you think the rules lead to the solutions.

[Ghidrah1]

Jaguaro,
For your statement to be true there would be multiple solutions to each puzzle and to date after numerous attempts with random puzzles, (small ones in particular) I can find no 1 puzzle with more than 1 solution

[Ziel]

Originally posted by Jaguario:

With respect to rules, all the game does is decide if an input is correct or incorrect. There are no rules except the ones you create. The trick is to create and change the rules so that they lead to you making an input the game says correct. You have it completely backwards if you think the rules lead to the solutions.

What do you mean there are no rules, of course there are. The puzzles have been created according to a certain set of rules, and once you understand it, you can consistently solve them. And how do you suppose the game determines whether or not an input is correct? By checking if all criteria have been met, i.e. if the rules have been followed.

You are probably just arguing semantics here but I think what you say is wrong either way.

[Jaguario]

You could look at is arguing semantics, or as arguing for seeing the same things from a different perspective

[Hairy Phil]

Originally posted by Ghidrah1:

I can find no 1 puzzle with more than 1 solution

There are plenty. Easy example: The 2nd and 3rd puzzles in the black & white marks tutorial. This is an essential mechanic in many areas.

But more importantly, people can arrive at the same solution using different interpretations of the rules. The orange triangle puzzles are a good example of where everyone solves them successfully, but at first will each describe a different method for how they solved it. So just because two people draw an identical line doesn't mean that they have both been successful. Success is measured by understanding, not completing the puzzle, else people just brute force every puzzle, such as in the pink orchard, or cheat and look up the answer, and then it's no fun for them.

It may be that one person has worked out the more general rule while the other just got lucky the first few times with a limited rule (example again, counting tweets instead of counting sounds). I see this all the time on streams of The Witness. The player will come to the first puzzle in a sequence and guess the generalised rule immediately, and I'll marvel at them because it took me until the 10th puzzle in the series before realising that the rule that I had believed to be obvious was actually too limited. It's not the game's fault. It gave me all the information that I needed. Other people got it earlier, I didn't until that point. Happily, it's not a competition.