Realistic?

[SovietPowerlifting]

By realistic I mean:
- Tanks not getting any damage from bullets
- Infantry supression, cannot advance under machine gun fire
- No experimental fantasy weapons à la Battlefield I
- No magic healing
Etc.

[Yuithgf]

-No
-No
-Yes
-Yes
As far as i know

[Althar]

From playing the demo it was a good abstraction of WW1 trench warfare, and I will stress 'abstraction'.

It gets the general gist but some mechanics or behaviours are clearly motivated by game play considerations over a faithful depiction, such as artillery suppressing troops but causing very little concrete damage.

[SiC]

WW1 is the one time line where the infantry literally can't afford to become suppressed. It's push through or fall back, but you're sure as hell not staying put in No Man's Land.

[Yuithgf]

Originally posted by SiC:

WW1 is the one time line where the infantry literally can't afford to become suppressed. It's push through or fall back, but you're sure as hell not staying put in No Man's Land.

jesus how many morons are gonna make that claim. brb in a sec, just gonna copy paste the same as last time

[SovietPowerlifting]

Don't focus on my specific examples, please, I'm asking about the overall tone of the game.

[Yuithgf]

Originally posted by SiC:

WW1 is the one time line where the infantry literally can't afford to become suppressed.

Originally posted by Capt. Laffargue, 1916:

''Machine guns.
A machine gun which opens fire must become the focal point of everyone; you must shower it in bullets.''
(page 41)

Originally posted by Capt. Laffargue, 1916:

We arrived at the first entanglement at 80 metres from the enemy without firing, but there on account of the violence of the adverse fire, our fusillade broke out. I myself recall that I marched straight ahead under the protection of my rifle. Every time a “flat cap” raised up and aimed at me, I threw the rifle to my shoulder rapidly; my shot came near enough to make him duck; I profited by this short respite to advance into the wire or dash ahead some 20 metres, always watching and firing whenever a “flat cap” reappeared. Thus, emptying the magazine on the march, I was able to mount the parapet of the German trench without having permitted the enemy to fire a single aimed shot at me.

Originally posted by Capt. Laffargue, 1916:

Absolutely do not enter communication trenches; it is an easy temptation; but we never leave them and a handful of men can halt a company for hours.''
(page 41)

(that is a little unclear alone, but in his books he complains at length that men in communications trenches get suppressed and refuse to leave them because under too much rifle fire)

Originally posted by Capt. Laffargue, 1916:

2. Gaining Superiority of Fire.
It can be obtained in the two following ways:
The execution of an intense fire by the whole line;
The execution of a slow, deadly, and precise fire by the best shots, well concealed.
The men are under cover, consequently it is possible to avoid the first plan, which is noisy and not particularly effective but which circumstances beyond our control sometimes make necessary.
The best shots are designated by the chiefs of section. They construct masks in front of themselves, behind which they fire obliquely, that is to say, under excellent conditions of security and calm. They locate an adversary, keep aiming at him and firing each time that he appears, and they go successively from right to left. This method is very effective; the enemy does not dare to fire any more, and it soon seems as if his trench were empty.

Originally posted by Yuithgf:

His other book includes a story when he fought at Ypres, where french troops were very much suppressed by german rifle fire, until a few soldiers in a concealed position started to shoot at the germans one by one until they gained suppression superiority, allowing the rest of the french soldiers to advance and gain an advantageous position.

Originally posted by French manual of the infantry section leader, 1918:

''The rifle remains the weapon by excellence of the grenadier-voltigeurs(understand ''basic grunt'') in all circumstances of war. Its his only weapon when the enemy finds himself out of range of grenades or when those ran out.'' p35
''The alternation between advancing and shooting is the absolute rule of the offensive. The section only shoots to prepare an advance, or when it cannot advance to protect the movement of a neighboring fraction'' p237
But the half-section will not always be able to end the fight by its own means. It must, in these cases, focus the enemy with its fires, to allow either a nearby unit or a reinforcement unit to flank the enemy resistance.''p444

Once more, each year, major powers burned BILLIONS of rounds of ammo. And this is a time where people were designing machine guns with walking fire in mind.
Suppression was more than a thing.

[SovietPowerlifting]

Example of a game that I consider realistic enough for a game: Steel Division 2

Not realistic enough: Company of Heroes 2 vanilla

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

It does not have a couple of fundamental features that have been part of real-world battlefields for thousands of years - leaders and chain of command.

Now one can argue as to how or if such things can be implemented in this specific game in a "fun" way. Fun is highly subjective. But as far as I am concerned, any wargame that lacks such basic features can never be called realistic.

[Dregora]

Originally posted by Mitth'raw'nuruodo:

It does not have a couple of fundamental features that have been part of real-world battlefields for thousands of years - leaders and chain of command.

Now one can argue as to how or if such things can be implemented in this specific game in a "fun" way. Fun is highly subjective. But as far as I am concerned, any wargame that lacks such basic features can never be called realistic.

How would you go about this, then? I'm very curious. Because you're essentially the leader. You're in control.

[SovietPowerlifting]

Steel Division 2 tried to simulate chain of command in a simple way. Graviteam goes all in on this, but it's perhaps too hardcore for a mainstream game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSJL07fYtXs