Smoke is useless. Dont make the mistake of getting it.

[SpiffyGonzales]

your men will die SLIGHTLY slower, but theyll still get massacred. I got it thinking it might be something to hide my units and bring in some rangers or stormtroopers... I was very mistaken. Lost 5 elite infantry and 3 stormtroopers trying to get into the trench. I had smoke covering both their men and mine, and it was almost the same as if I had just charged in their with nothing at all. Needs a HUGE buff. Like a very very big buff.

it costs less and is far more effective just to use the regular light artillar barrage. It actually suppresses their men and keeps yours from getting killed. Use that, do not waste your tech on smoke bombs.

[Historian]

If you do some testing, I bet smoke works like forests where the AI can't see you, and if they can't see you, they can't use artillery on you. Use it to mass troops in No Man's Land prior to the assault which is done under suppression.

[SpiffyGonzales]

Originally posted by Historian:

If you do some testing, I bet smoke works like forests where the AI can't see you, and if they can't see you, they can't use artillery on you. Use it to mass troops in No Man's Land prior to the assault which is done under suppression.

Eh... ebh even if that was the case thats still objectivly worse than just using the light arty. lets say I cover up 4 guys, all the way up to the enemies trench from their line of fire. Thats like what... 3 smoke shells? 30 supply? with no damage to the enemy?
A single shell is 6 AND i suppress the enemy AND it damages them. heck, lets say they have the enemy set about in such a way that one shell wont cover it. 3 shells vs 3 smoke. 18 supply vs almost double that. Two rounds of that and I just saved myself the cost of a stormtrooper.

If thats what theyre going for they need to make the smoke cover a much larger area for 10 supply. Ill test it and get back to you tho

[SpiffyGonzales]

Originally posted by Historian:

If you do some testing, I bet smoke works like forests where the AI can't see you, and if they can't see you, they can't use artillery on you. Use it to mass troops in No Man's Land prior to the assault which is done under suppression.

Just tested it, once your units get in range they will still open fire on you. even if the hidden icon is showing. and when I say I tested it i mean i just spammed like 12 units of arty all just cluster blasting smoke everywhere around my men and even on theirs. I destoyed their balloons thinking that might solve it but no...

So yea... its useless.

edit: creeping barrage grants suppression AND cover for just 5 more. I think they should have smoke make your units invisible if they want it to compete.

[Audio]

What does it actually do then? Just reduce the hit chance?

[SpiffyGonzales]

Originally posted by Audio:

What does it actually do then? Just reduce the hit chance?

Yes. Basically It just mitigates the damage you take. Which I suppose in mass charges or if you have men standing outside a trench could be useful, but the amount of damage that actually gets reduced is NOT worth the extra supply. Being able to actually SUPPRESS an enemy for cheaper is much better.

Creeping Barrage is pretty good though if you time it right. It costs 15 (as opposed to 10 for smoke or 6 for regular barrage) and it creeps backwards, so if your enemy has 3 lines or just a further back second line its great for actually getting in the trench.

Gas though, with how quickly your men die.. its really not worth it. I had just unlocked flamethrowers and wanted to try to use them in sinc with gas. The result was a lot of dead flamethrowers.

[holy-death]

Originally posted by SpiffyGonzales:

and when I say I tested it i mean i just spammed like 12 units of arty all just cluster blasting smoke everywhere around my men and even on theirs.

Maybe that's the problem? Usually you smoke not your men, but the enemy (or between you and the enemy). If not, then I guess smoke needs to be buffed. In any case, thanks for the early warning.

[Hexagoros]

Originally posted by SpiffyGonzales:

Originally posted by Historian:

If you do some testing, I bet smoke works like forests where the AI can't see you, and if they can't see you, they can't use artillery on you. Use it to mass troops in No Man's Land prior to the assault which is done under suppression.

Eh... ebh even if that was the case thats still objectivly worse than just using the light arty. lets say I cover up 4 guys, all the way up to the enemies trench from their line of fire. Thats like what... 3 smoke shells? 30 supply? with no damage to the enemy?
A single shell is 6 AND i suppress the enemy AND it damages them. heck, lets say they have the enemy set about in such a way that one shell wont cover it. 3 shells vs 3 smoke. 18 supply vs almost double that. Two rounds of that and I just saved myself the cost of a stormtrooper.

If thats what theyre going for they need to make the smoke cover a much larger area for 10 supply. Ill test it and get back to you tho

This right here.

Light Artillery is just too damn good, and the alternatives range from "meh" to "bad."

Light Artillery - and suppression in general - needs a serious rework.

[Brutallisck]

Originally posted by Historian:

If you do some testing, I bet smoke works like forests where the AI can't see you, and if they can't see you, they can't use artillery on you. Use it to mass troops in No Man's Land prior to the assault which is done under suppression.

I didn't think about it, but you are right. Regardless, I would suggest making smoke (and gas btw) clouds bigger by about 10-15%

[holy-death]

I just played the second battle of Champagne and units in smoke get 80% cover bonus. But the bonus doesn't seem to last long and under mass enemy fire even 20% is a lot of damage.

[Timmer120]

I disagree

Smoke is wonderful-if you want to prepare your offensive with a bit of pre-battle bombardment, then because of smoke having a pretty long duration time you can smoke your advancement routes so that when you charge the 2 trenches of Brits at extreme range or the one MG nest you missed won't gut your companies before they get inside the enemy trenches

additionally, its practically needed if Germans want to have victory at Verdun, because the invincible MG Bunkers are HELL, and smoke makes it so that instead of having to send 6 companies to get 2 through the MG Fire to the trenches beyond, you send 4, and only 2 are reduced to 3/4-1/2 strength

if you want useless, then look at Airburst and Gas Shells-sure they have good effect, but they are so damned expensive that unless you have a LOT of supply to burn they are actively detrimental to utilize

[Hexagoros]

The thing is, you can achieve BETTER results with CHEAPER Light Artillery suppression barrages.

Just stagger your Light Artillery bombardments, and there you go. You've COMPLETELY stopped the enemy from firing - with an easier to use, cheaper alternative.

And there is 'nothing' the enemy can do about. There's no counter play. Once a unit is suppressed, it's suppressed.

The issue is 'not' that gas or smoke or even airburst are 'completely useless.' The issue is that there is an alternative that is 'always' better and cheaper to use.

Light Artillery is so OP busted that it renders everything else to being either 'very niche' or pointless.

[Timmer120]

Originally posted by Hexagoros:

The thing is, you can achieve BETTER results with CHEAPER Light Artillery suppression barrages.

Just stagger your Light Artillery bombardments, and there you go. You've COMPLETELY stopped the enemy from firing - with an easier to use, cheaper alternative.

And there is 'nothing' the enemy can do about. There's no counter play. Once a unit is suppressed, it's suppressed.

The issue is 'not' that gas or smoke or even airburst are 'completely useless.' The issue is that there is an alternative that is 'always' better and cheaper to use.

Light Artillery is so OP busted that it renders everything else to being either 'very niche' or pointless.

my point is more that you can have the benifits of Smoke AND of light Arty barrages, its more paying a bit of supply to have some protection on your assaulting troops on top of the suppression of Light Arty Barrages

meanwhile compared to smoke, Airbursts have the extreme niche of being able to cause severe casualties to enemy companies in a small radius very fast, at the expense of paying out the arse in supply, while Gas can be even more effective, up until you get to Mustard Gas you run the chance that the enemy has Gas Masks, which makes it even WORSE than airburst

but that's the point of the additional bells and whistles, its paying supply to get things done faster, Smoke makes it so that a last-minute unseen trench with infantry or MG can't delete your first wave, being in effect an insurance policy that you can at least win the trench fight for the first trenches, while Airburst is good to prevent the enemy from logjamming you with infantry so that you can keep up your offensive momentum while a normal heavy arty barrage would just cause a bit of damage by the time the enemy ran through the barrage

[SpiffyGonzales]

Originally posted by Hexagoros:

The thing is, you can achieve BETTER results with CHEAPER Light Artillery suppression barrages.

Just stagger your Light Artillery bombardments, and there you go. You've COMPLETELY stopped the enemy from firing - with an easier to use, cheaper alternative.

And there is 'nothing' the enemy can do about. There's no counter play. Once a unit is suppressed, it's suppressed.

The issue is 'not' that gas or smoke or even airburst are 'completely useless.' The issue is that there is an alternative that is 'always' better and cheaper to use.

Light Artillery is so OP busted that it renders everything else to being either 'very niche' or pointless.

eh... I mean... I dunno. Try smoke out for yourself. The difference between a smoke covered unit and a non smoke covered unit is pretty small. Like for the cost of two smoke barrages I can field a flame thrower. And I can get more done with hans and his flammenwerfer than I can some smoke that still lets my dudes get massacred.

[SpiffyGonzales]

Originally posted by Timmer120:

Originally posted by Hexagoros:

The thing is, you can achieve BETTER results with CHEAPER Light Artillery suppression barrages.

Just stagger your Light Artillery bombardments, and there you go. You've COMPLETELY stopped the enemy from firing - with an easier to use, cheaper alternative.

And there is 'nothing' the enemy can do about. There's no counter play. Once a unit is suppressed, it's suppressed.

The issue is 'not' that gas or smoke or even airburst are 'completely useless.' The issue is that there is an alternative that is 'always' better and cheaper to use.

Light Artillery is so OP busted that it renders everything else to being either 'very niche' or pointless.

my point is more that you can have the benifits of Smoke AND of light Arty barrages, its more paying a bit of supply to have some protection on your assaulting troops on top of the suppression of Light Arty Barrages

meanwhile compared to smoke, Airbursts have the extreme niche of being able to cause severe casualties to enemy companies in a small radius very fast, at the expense of paying out the arse in supply, while Gas can be even more effective, up until you get to Mustard Gas you run the chance that the enemy has Gas Masks, which makes it even WORSE than airburst

but that's the point of the additional bells and whistles, its paying supply to get things done faster, Smoke makes it so that a last-minute unseen trench with infantry or MG can't delete your first wave, being in effect an insurance policy that you can at least win the trench fight for the first trenches, while Airburst is good to prevent the enemy from logjamming you with infantry so that you can keep up your offensive momentum while a normal heavy arty barrage would just cause a bit of damage by the time the enemy ran through the barrage

I see what youre saying. But frankly Id rather just use anotherlight arty barrage. Smoke needs a buff. For the size, visibility, and the actual damage reduction.