Cavalry

[KilroyWH78]

Controversial i know, but i came across a video from Brandon F. that would discuss the subject and explain how they were still used up to the latter part of the war on the western front, and i wanted to share this point since its relevant to the game.

You may argue about their effectiveness but im sure they would be quite usefull on the early part of the conflict and the later parts of the war where mobility was increasing. As with all things in this conflict, their usefulness depended on how they were used.

Tl;dr
They existed, they were used, they were usefull, and continued to be used.

[Yuithgf]

On the western front they were basically limtied to monted infantry as far as i know, they would dismount to fight

so infantry that is much more expensive but has much more mobility

maybe maps are a little small for em, idk. Also their mobility is less important given the devs gave tanks like 5 times the speed they had irl

[KilroyWH78]

Originally posted by Yuithgf:

On the western front they were basically limtied to monted infantry as far as i know, they would dismount to fight

so infantry that is much more expensive but has much more mobility

maybe maps are a little small for em, idk. Also their mobility is less important given the devs gave tanks like 5 times the speed they had irl

they cant really be more expensive than infantry since they arent bought in the game but earned, what should really affect their availability is the amount of horses available, and while yes in the battle mode they could engage as infantry they would still be able to do charges as it happened back then, even though with varied results. but still very useful to seize trenches with few defences on them.

they could be used more properly as an strategic opportunity on the campaign map where, unlike infantry they would be able to attack after moving.

and they also carried around MGs and field cannons, so they wouldnt be necessarily outgunned except for maybe their quantity

[KilroyWH78]

the video in question:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju1WURm15YU

[theseeman]

Originally posted by KilroyWH78:

would be quite usefull on the early part of the conflict and the later parts of the war where mobility was increasing.

"Not a horseman will be seen. The Calvary will have to accomplish its tasks out of range of the infantry and artillery. Breech-loaders and machine-guns will have banished the calvaryman quite mercilessly from the battlefield. " von Schiefflien 1909 as quoted by Guderian in Achtung Panzer!
Haelen august 12th 1914 showed, to Guderian at least, the time of horse was firmly past.
I think horse should be in game and could be used as mentioned as dragoons or off map scouts but if used to charge wire and machineguns I think it will usually fail.
I'm going to be teching and playing defense until I get 500 tanks.

[KilroyWH78]

Originally posted by theseeman:

Originally posted by KilroyWH78:

would be quite usefull on the early part of the conflict and the later parts of the war where mobility was increasing.

"Not a horseman will be seen. The Calvary will have to accomplish its tasks out of range of the infantry and artillery. Breech-loaders and machine-guns will have banished the calvaryman quite mercilessly from the battlefield. " von Schiefflien 1909 as quoted by Guderian in Achtung Panzer!
Haelen august 12th 1914 showed, to Guderian at least, the time of horse was firmly past.
I think horse should be in game and could be used as mentioned as dragoons or off map scouts but if used to charge wire and machineguns I think it will usually fail.
I'm going to be teching and playing defense until I get 500 tanks.

it might have be the beginning of the end for cavalry, but they were still pretty much around, as mentioned in the video above, since their last employment was in ww2.

in the end its more a matter of how they are used

[Ah Gor]

I think cavalry should be a starting unit in a 1914 early war campaign. It won’t respawn - all you have on the map is all you get. In the tactical battle cavalry should behave like the missile cavalry of Total War, but with short range and weaker health.

As tech progress, cavalry would be given an option to be converted into infantry; Or they could be sold for supply point (reflecting the transfer of horses into logistic use).

You can of course just keep them for the rest of the game to wait for the war of movement that may never come.

[KilroyWH78]

Originally posted by Ah Gor:

I think cavalry should be a starting unit in a 1914 early war campaign. It won’t respawn - all you have on the map is all you get. In the tactical battle cavalry should behave like the missile cavalry of Total War, but with short range and weaker health.

As tech progress, cavalry would be given an option to be converted into infantry; Or they could be sold for supply point (reflecting the transfer of horses into logistic use).

You can of course just keep them for the rest of the game to wait for the war of movement that may never come.

this ^

[Searry]

Cavalry was used as a mobile reserve to plug gaps. I suggest reading books, not watching youtube videos.

[theseeman]

I encourage my future opponents to use Cav as much as possible.
I think we should be able to demobilize cav and reform it into something useful, like that one unit of pike at the start of TW Empire.
Read the accounts of the Battle of Halen if you think cav has a place on the battlefield. Dismounted belgian cav mauled mounted german cav. aka Battle of the Silver Helmets.
Put it in the game, let people use it, but keep it accurate.
"The brigade is destroyed.... Rode in against infantry, artillery and machine-guns, hung up on the wire, fell into a sunken road, all shot down."

— Maximilian von Poseck

[Yuithgf]

Originally posted by theseeman:

Read the accounts of the Battle of Halen if you think cav has a place on the battlefield. Dismounted belgian cav mauled mounted german cav.

Curious way to try to prove the effectiveness of cavlary, to pick a battle where it fought itself

[Eyeli]

Originally posted by Searry:

Cavalry was used as a mobile reserve to plug gaps. I suggest reading books, not watching youtube videos.

Horsemen in No Man's Land: British Cavalry and Trench Warfare, 1914–1918
Have fun. British Cavalry was more often than not tactically successful. They had problems operationally, but these were generally caused by higher-ups expecting to much from them.
Even cavalry charges were generally successful if performed according to the manuals, the most famous example was Beersheba. But even without support they could be successful like during the German spring offensive where 150 cavalrymen did a 1km charge over open train against 4 machine guns enfilade positions + 200 soldiers. 7 British dead, 40 wounded in exchange for capturing 4 machine guns and 100 German casualties.

[theseeman]

Originally posted by Yuithgf:

Originally posted by theseeman:

Read the accounts of the Battle of Halen if you think cav has a place on the battlefield. Dismounted belgian cav mauled mounted german cav.

Curious way to try to prove the effectiveness of cavlary, to pick a battle where it fought itself

*Dismounted*
Read the battle and come back and tell me how I'm wrong.
people on foot mauled people on horseback. why fight on horseback? I know this one time at cav camp somebody carried off a charge on flat unbroken ground with only 4 machine guns operated by blind nuns. But run The Blues and Royals right at a german strong point after a heavy rain? Agincourt 2.
Would you rather have a cav regiment or a tank company?
If you'd choose cav regiment please add me, can't wait to 1v1.

[DezKaiZer]

Originally posted by Eyeli:

Originally posted by Searry:

Cavalry was used as a mobile reserve to plug gaps. I suggest reading books, not watching youtube videos.

Horsemen in No Man's Land: British Cavalry and Trench Warfare, 1914–1918
Have fun. British Cavalry was more often than not tactically successful. They had problems operationally, but these were generally caused by higher-ups expecting to much from them.
Even cavalry charges were generally successful if performed according to the manuals, the most famous example was Beersheba. But even without support they could be successful like during the German spring offensive where 150 cavalrymen did a 1km charge over open train against 4 machine guns enfilade positions + 200 soldiers. 7 British dead, 40 wounded in exchange for capturing 4 machine guns and 100 German casualties.

Nobody in WW1 was "tactically successfull" lol
Maybe the first combined Arms after the Kaiserschlacht could be counted as a successful tactic but until then the western front was pretty much a 4 year long fail

[Machiavelli]

https://anzac100.initiatives.qld.gov.au/remember/battle-of-beersheba/index.aspx

Cavalry still had a place in the early 20th century.

"The traditional strategy for the Light Horse—to dismount and attack with rifles from a distance—would leave the men vulnerable to shrapnel fire on the open plains surrounding Beersheba. General Grant devised a different approach; they would attack like a cavalry unit, bayonets in hand like sabres.

The charge, which commenced around 5pm, caught the Turkish gunners off guard. They had little time to recalibrate their weapons for close range battle, and could largely only fire shrapnel over the charging horsemen’s heads.

While the 4th Regiment dismounted at the trenches to confront the awed enemy (ultimately taking over 700 prisoners), the 12th Regiment further surprised the Turks by continuing their furious charge over the trenches and straight on to the town, capturing it before the Turkish forces could regroup or destroy the wells in a retreat."

[Yuithgf]

Originally posted by ~DezKaiZer~:

Nobody in WW1 was "tactically successfull" lol
Maybe the first combined Arms after the Kaiserschlacht could be counted as a successful tactic but until then the western front was pretty much a 4 year long fail

So that's complete nonsense.

Originally posted by Fellington:

Cavalry still had a place in the early 20th century.

It's non arguable that cavalry had a place, it's just that when people think ''cavalry'' they picture big charges on horseback, and while that still could be successful, it would be rare on the western front, especially outside of years 1914 and 1918