Why are these games getting easier? You're losing your audience.

[Frostiken]

I say this having enjoyed Expeditions...

I was late to the franchise, playing Snowrunner after Hard Mode... I understand Hard Mode was added after the fact. Which also explains why 'Hard Mode' was pretty half-baked, not particularly balanced, but it kind of sort of did its job.

DESPITE the popularity, Expeditions shipped without any kind of hard mode. Expeditions actually walked back the difficulty even more, because "recall to garage" is literally a mandatory feature. You cannot start a new expedition without a full-fleet recall to the garage. And so, it doesn't matter what you do, or how you fail - drive your truck straight off the rim of the Grand Canyon head-first into a river, poof, instant recall and fully repaired.

From what I can see, Roadcraft doesn't even have a freaking FUEL MECHANIC anymore?

I honestly do not get it. Who the hell have you guys listened to that had anyone say at all that you'd sell more copies by making the game even easier? You could hardly get any easier than the default mode of Snowrunner, with free recalls and free repairs, but you still had to hit a gas station, and you still had to ferry fuel around.

Everybody is clamoring for MORE difficulty and MORE meaning to everything. Ever since Snowrunner, these games should be shipping with an entire "hard mode" system as the DEFAULT, be balanced around it, and add in more and more systems to increase difficulty.

It's not even like "hard mode" was some system that had mechanics that made no sense... you have to pay for fuel, yes, that's how real life works. You have to pay to repair your vehicle, yes, that's how real life works. You have to pay to ship trucks around off-screen, yes, that's how real life works. You can't just resell everything for full rate, yes, that's how real life works. I literally went to Hard Mode the minute I noticed the first gas station on Michigan gave you free fuel, I was like 'wait, seriously? Why do I have money if fuel is free?'

Instead you need a dump truck full of sand to build a road, and how do you get more sand? You just hold a button and sand magically pours from the literal actual heavens to fill your truck.

Guys, come on.

[Stally447]

Well said. Starting to think the only devs that care/listen about their communities are indie devs. Never did I ever think a company could go ahead and produce something thats a step back from previous titles (ubisoft 2.0?).

When will the devs learn their games WILL flop if they keep being lazy and removing stuff when all people want is for a decent challenge, something that Snowrunner did fairly well.

Seems to be more about the money nowadays for these "major companies" rather then having a successful title

[Swarmtek]

I only bothered to skim through that wall of text but sounds like these games are not for you if they are not hard enough. Vote with your wallet, and let people who enjoy them enjoy them.

None of us know why they made the games "easier." Maybe they have data showing this is what the silent majority prefers. My guess is that they want to make different games with different features and that doesn't include hard mode as part of the focus. I get the feeling they are meeting the needs of specific players with each game they have now, and with Roadcraft they now have 3 different games for different people. Hopefully we get another game in the "...runner" series that focuses on a more hardcore driving experience that many people like, but in the meantime the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on Roadcarft and the devs seems excessive. But this is Steam forums and basically all they are used for these day.

[_-Dave-_]

Catering to a broader audience by having different series targeting different people is not losing their audience.

[Ryu_Sheng]

Originally posted by _-Dave-_:

Catering to a broader audience by having different series targeting different people is not losing their audience.

This! And to be fair they’ve flat out said that this game is NOT a spin off of the others, it’s its own thing.

I see this as them listening to the feed back from snowrunner. For years a lot of people were wanting more scout vehicle stuff to do. We got expeditions. Another group wanted to be rebuilding roads and infrastructure, we get this game.

What I really want them to do is to learn from both of these games, take the elements that have worked and incorporate them into a snowrunner 2 where we have more scout stuff to do, stuff like the drone gets brought over, and yes rebuilding roads and stuff.

Honestly that would make for a bloody awesome game.

As for the lack of fuel in this, I honestly couldn’t care because for me it’s a different focus from either snowrunner or expeditions.

For me, personally (please note that last word) in this type of game stressing over fuel detracts from the game. Where as in snowrunner and expeditions it adds to the game.

That said until I can play the demo later today and see how it plays, it’s a none comment.

[FriendCalledFive]

I am interested in the game because they have dialled down the realism in ways that appeal to me. I can see it would be nice to have options in the game to make it more hardcore for the existing fans of the series though.

[Stally447]

Originally posted by Ryu_Sheng:

Originally posted by _-Dave-_:

Catering to a broader audience by having different series targeting different people is not losing their audience.

This! And to be fair they’ve flat out said that this game is NOT a spin off of the others, it’s its own thing.

I see this as them listening to the feed back from snowrunner. For years a lot of people were wanting more scout vehicle stuff to do. We got expeditions. Another group wanted to be rebuilding roads and infrastructure, we get this game.

What I really want them to do is to learn from both of these games, take the elements that have worked and incorporate them into a snowrunner 2 where we have more scout stuff to do, stuff like the drone gets brought over, and yes rebuilding roads and stuff.

Honestly that would make for a bloody awesome game.

As for the lack of fuel in this, I honestly couldn’t care because for me it’s a different focus from either snowrunner or expeditions.

For me, personally (please note that last word) in this type of game stressing over fuel detracts from the game. Where as in snowrunner and expeditions it adds to the game.

That said until I can play the demo later today and see how it plays, it’s a none comment.

I can see where you come from with some of your points. Personally I would've loved if they added rebuilding roads and bridges into snowrunner yea we kinda had repairing bridges but youd always come across a bridge that wasnt repairable.

Regarding lack of fuel, its been suggested on their main forums and spoke about in their discord, from what I gather it seems to be a very popular request. Will they add it? probably not, but time will tell.

I'm sure many including myself will use the demo as a decision maker whether to buy it or not. We shall see

[RoKit]

simply get the bridge mod for snowrunner then

[BamBeakz]

Originally posted by Ryu_Sheng:

Originally posted by _-Dave-_:

Catering to a broader audience by having different series targeting different people is not losing their audience.

This! And to be fair they’ve flat out said that this game is NOT a spin off of the others, it’s its own thing.

I see this as them listening to the feed back from snowrunner. For years a lot of people were wanting more scout vehicle stuff to do. We got expeditions. Another group wanted to be rebuilding roads and infrastructure, we get this game.

What I really want them to do is to learn from both of these games, take the elements that have worked and incorporate them into a snowrunner 2 where we have more scout stuff to do, stuff like the drone gets brought over, and yes rebuilding roads and stuff.

Honestly that would make for a bloody awesome game.

As for the lack of fuel in this, I honestly couldn’t care because for me it’s a different focus from either snowrunner or expeditions.

For me, personally (please note that last word) in this type of game stressing over fuel detracts from the game. Where as in snowrunner and expeditions it adds to the game.

That said until I can play the demo later today and see how it plays, it’s a none comment.

+1 Really hope they will give us that in "snowrunner 2" but I see why kids and young teens would prefer this game over Snowrunner. It is easier and faster and you can't really fail (in the demo). It is possible this is what they will make from now and that would be a shame for me.

[Ryu_Sheng]

Originally posted by BamBeakz:

+1 Really hope they will give us that in "snowrunner 2" but I see why kids and young teens would prefer this game over Snowrunner. It is easier and faster and you can't really fail (in the demo). It is possible this is what they will make from now and that would be a shame for me.

Yeah I’ve been playing the demo and I have to admit it’s not feeling good. Not for the reasons people are complaining about, but for the “feel” of the driving.

Snowrunner always has this struggle feel to it. When going into mud and stuff your cautious cause you don’t want to get stuck. Sadly in this that’s gone, other than deep water there dosent really seem to be anything to get into trouble with.

I really hope that this is just because they haven’t finished the game yet

[Pheex]

Originally posted by _-Dave-_:

Catering to a broader audience by having different series targeting different people is not losing their audience.

Farming Sim 22: Relatively hardcore in depth simulation. 60.000+ reviews, very positive, multiple millions of copies sold every new entry

Arma 3: Relatively hardcore in depth simulation. 200.000+ reviews, very positive, tens of millions of copies sold

Euro Truck SImulator 2: Relatively hardcore in depth simulation. 600.000+ reviews, very positive, roughly 25 million copies sold

Snowrunner: Relatively hardcore in depth simulation, 30.000+ reviews, very positive, multiple millions of copies sold

Expeditions, simplifying the franchise for a broader audience, 2000 reviews, less than 60.000 copies sold, mixed reviews.

The idea that simplifying a game makes it appeal to a broader audience is a misconception and a myth.

[Haurbus]

The Scope and number of vehicles seems that focusing on refuelling all of them might just be a Sisyphean task. Not "hard". Seeming how Snowrunner could be done with like 2-3 vehicles.

We're already going to have a lot of gathering resources which we didn't do in Snowrunner either.

[Akkirah]

It isn't snow runner and i think its better..... I like being able to play instead of getting ready to play for an hour. The logging in Roadcraft is 1000%better than Snowrunner and the road building is fun the logistics part is even going to be cool to setup and have AI traffic..... most players are solo players and Snowrunner was a chore for solo play.

[FR1GHT]

This is basically why I didn't get snow runner. Actually, I didn't get snow runner because I messaged their Facebook page and asked if they were going to have shifter support and they said no.

Wrote them off for dead ever since.

[sirpete]

Maybe the target audience is kids and preteens now. I could see that a young kid would enjoy driving "big" machines around without any need for a strategy or care about how to recover from an accident.

For me the original Mudrunner was about failing and saving the day. It was much more satisfying to get into trouble, sink into swamp and then make an elaborate plan how to tow your vechicle out from there and get back on track.

The Snowrunner series took away terrain that you could actually get stuck into. Only too deep water or too steep hills were stopping you. It felt like watching a progress bar while churning through a swamp. No excitement no fear, no reward of success.

Now Roadcraft seems to go further into this direction by removing other strategic decisions. No more attachments for different roles, only ready built setups. No more refueling and fuel planing.

This is my honest opinion, not truth.

[-REDACTED-]

Originally posted by Ryu_Sheng:

Originally posted by BamBeakz:

+1 Really hope they will give us that in "snowrunner 2" but I see why kids and young teens would prefer this game over Snowrunner. It is easier and faster and you can't really fail (in the demo). It is possible this is what they will make from now and that would be a shame for me.

Yeah I’ve been playing the demo and I have to admit it’s not feeling good. Not for the reasons people are complaining about, but for the “feel” of the driving.

Snowrunner always has this struggle feel to it. When going into mud and stuff your cautious cause you don’t want to get stuck. Sadly in this that’s gone, other than deep water there dosent really seem to be anything to get into trouble with.

I really hope that this is just because they haven’t finished the game yet

Snowrunner is already arcady AF -it is just the most "complete game" experience, but already a step back from the previous games
just try the first game (Spintires)=> you will find youself stuck definitively in front of the garage if you try to drive like in snowrunner