What's the point of non-elemental weapons?

[「Choobs」]

Not making this thread to start ♥♥♥♥, I'm genuinely curious why these exist in the game. I know you can infuse them with elements when using mask lines, but it just doesn't add up to me, I have to be missing something.

They seem to be strictly worse than weapons that deal elemental damage all the time. Why would you ever choose to use a weapon that only deals elemental damage sometimes? Without the infusion you're hitting for physical only, effectively giving up half of your damage.

Are infusions way stronger than I think? The only way to justify going out of your way to charge mask lines and dedicate ring slots to the infusion effects is if they were ridiculously strong, but I don't think that's the case.

Somebody who actually uses mask lines and infusions please weigh in. I don't currently have the build to test it, and I feel quite powerful just using elemental weapons.

[Momo]

Idk, maybe higher raw damage?
Maybe elemental weapons against the same type of enemy are less viable?

I am using the bell-hammer that is not infused and I am dealing high damage. Not feeling the urge to switch to any other weapon tbh.

[「Choobs」]

Originally posted by Momo:

Idk, maybe higher raw damage?
Maybe elemental weapons against the same type of enemy are less viable?

I am using the bell-hammer that is not infused and I am dealing high damage. Not feeling the urge to switch to any other weapon tbh.

They do have higher raw damage, but not enough to make up for the lack of elemental damage. Elemental weapons will still do more because they're dealing two types of damage.

[Momo]

Well I haven’t tested it yet, but in every souls game split damage isn’t always good. If the enemy has a peculliar resistance against it you’ll find yourself in disadvantage.

Should be the same here.

Also elemental weapons are prone to need more investment in stats since they need both the physical dmg and elemental one.

[Baron01]

Weapon dealing only physical damage usually have high unraveling damage as well. Juniper Sword is good example of raw physical damage with high unraveling damage as well compared to elemental weapon I used (my default option is Vermilion Pastoral polearm). Vermilion Pastoral polearm is slower weapon but Juniper sword deals more unraveling damage at base, and a lot more at max upgrade.

I run my default weapon set for most of the game including Juniper Sword and Vermilion Pastoral to cover all basis. If I encounter enemy immune to Fatuo/Wicked, I use Juniper Sword and appropriate infusion (in my case it would be Gratia/Radiant). I'm now experimenting with dual status effects, mainly WIcked and Sick. It is not worth it for normal enemies because most enemies are dead or close to dying when I apply first status effect so I rarely manage to get 2nd effect on them. This double effect setup might be useful in NG+.

I use infusion perks, those path talents, and they provide reasonable buff for decent duration since I also use perk that increase duration of the infusion. I'm using fast charging mask line so I can pretty much keep 100% uptime of the infusion if need be since I regain mask line charge before the infusion dissipates.
My understanding is that you still want elemental weapon to use with infusion as they just make the infusion stronger. Elemental weapons have much higher elemental power and status power values, which should scale the damage and how fast you apply the effect to enemies. When I infuse Vermilion Pastoral with Fatuo, it definitely applies its effect faster than without it.

[「Choobs」]

Originally posted by Baron01:

Weapon dealing only physical damage usually have high unraveling damage as well. Juniper Sword is good example of raw physical damage with high unraveling damage as well compared to elemental weapon I used (my default option is Vermilion Pastoral polearm). Vermilion Pastoral polearm is slower weapon but Juniper sword deals more unraveling damage at base, and a lot more at max upgrade.

I run my default weapon set for most of the game including Juniper Sword and Vermilion Pastoral to cover all basis. If I encounter enemy immune to Fatuo/Wicked, I use Juniper Sword and appropriate infusion (in my case it would be Gratia/Radiant). I'm now experimenting with dual status effects, mainly WIcked and Sick. It is not worth it for normal enemies because most enemies are dead or close to dying when I apply first status effect so I rarely manage to get 2nd effect on them. This double effect setup might be useful in NG+.

I use infusion perks, those path talents, and they provide reasonable buff for decent duration since I also use perk that increase duration of the infusion. I'm using fast charging mask line so I can pretty much keep 100% uptime of the infusion if need be since I regain mask line charge before the infusion dissipates.
My understanding is that you still want elemental weapon to use with infusion as they just make the infusion stronger. Elemental weapons have much higher elemental power and status power values, which should scale the damage and how fast you apply the effect to enemies. When I infuse Vermilion Pastoral with Fatuo, it definitely applies its effect faster than without it.

Thanks for the insight. Personally I don't really pay attention to unravelling damage since having really high damage will just kill enemies before they stagger anyway. I do main UGS tho, which definitely creates a bias. I could see it being more important for small weapons.

Didn't know you could also infuse elemental weapons. That's even more baffling.

[Baron01]

Originally posted by 「Choobs」:

Thanks for the insight. Personally I don't really pay attention to unravelling damage since having really high damage will just kill enemies before they stagger anyway. I do main UGS tho, which definitely creates a bias. I could see it being more important for small weapons.

Didn't know you could also infuse elemental weapons. That's even more baffling.

This is interesting as UGS are also one of the weapon type that has highest unraveling damage and stagger potential. It also very likely 1-shot any normal enemy and stagger larger ones.

I just could not deal with extremely slow attack speed and how unwieldy running and jumping attacks are in this game. I could use heavy and slow weapons in Elden Ring, LotF or Lies of P but not in this game.

[「Choobs」]

Originally posted by Baron01:

Originally posted by 「Choobs」:

Thanks for the insight. Personally I don't really pay attention to unravelling damage since having really high damage will just kill enemies before they stagger anyway. I do main UGS tho, which definitely creates a bias. I could see it being more important for small weapons.

Didn't know you could also infuse elemental weapons. That's even more baffling.

This is interesting as UGS are also one of the weapon type that has highest unraveling damage and stagger potential. It also very likely 1-shot any normal enemy and stagger larger ones.

I just could not deal with extremely slow attack speed and how unwieldy running and jumping attacks are in this game. I could use heavy and slow weapons in Elden Ring, LotF or Lies of P but not in this game.

Yeah it was kind of a weird choice to give UGS good stagger because it only matters on bosses, and even then your openings are so few you'd probably still stagger faster with something smaller.

I think the clunk of UGS's is justified in this game by their absurd damage, which is something I haven't felt in Fromsoft games since like DS2.

[⭕TheSodaman]

Originally posted by 「Choobs」:

Not making this thread to start ♥♥♥♥, I'm genuinely curious why these exist in the game. I know you can infuse them with elements when using mask lines, but it just doesn't add up to me, I have to be missing something.

They seem to be strictly worse than weapons that deal elemental damage all the time. Why would you ever choose to use a weapon that only deals elemental damage sometimes?Without the infusion you're hitting for physical only, effectively giving up half of your damage.

Are infusions way stronger than I think? The only way to justify going out of your way to charge mask lines and dedicate ring slots to the infusion effects is if they were ridiculously strong, but I don't think that's the case.

Somebody who actually uses mask lines and infusions please weigh in. I don't currently have the build to test it, and I feel quite powerful just using elemental weapons.

I haven't caught up with the whole thread - will say that for the finishing attacks when an enemy is unraveled, the high physical power will hit a lot harder. And it can be worth having a second weapon on the same loadout or even better, a physical aspect + mask on the next loadout just before unraveling at least a mini-boss or boss to do a finishing attack.

reasoning: the loadout switch will trigger awakening to buff up all your damage. And then you land that and press the loadout switch input twice to quickly get back to the loadout you were just using.

In my case, I was using a colossal greatsword near the end of the game that out-damaged all the other colossal greatswords on average, except for when exploiting an elemental weakness.

An infusion path perk with an upgraded Presto line can help keep the damage up on top of that. With Elementalist having so many purposes to help with survival, dealing elemental damage, and landing a status effect sooner - so it doesn't feel very out of the way for a physical leaning build that just wants better survival - but also bonus when their attacks are infused. (If low Battlemage, mask line isn't upgraded, don't want to use an infuse path perk - then having a mask that infuses upon awakening works well for this instead.)

[「Choobs」]

Originally posted by ⭕TheSodaman:

Originally posted by 「Choobs」:

Not making this thread to start ♥♥♥♥, I'm genuinely curious why these exist in the game. I know you can infuse them with elements when using mask lines, but it just doesn't add up to me, I have to be missing something.

They seem to be strictly worse than weapons that deal elemental damage all the time. Why would you ever choose to use a weapon that only deals elemental damage sometimes?Without the infusion you're hitting for physical only, effectively giving up half of your damage.

Are infusions way stronger than I think? The only way to justify going out of your way to charge mask lines and dedicate ring slots to the infusion effects is if they were ridiculously strong, but I don't think that's the case.

Somebody who actually uses mask lines and infusions please weigh in. I don't currently have the build to test it, and I feel quite powerful just using elemental weapons.

I haven't caught up with the whole thread - will say that for the finishing attacks when an enemy is unraveled, the high physical power will hit a lot harder. And it can be worth having a second weapon on the same loadout or even better, a physical aspect + mask on the next loadout just before unraveling at least a mini-boss or boss to do a finishing attack.

reasoning: the loadout switch will trigger awakening to buff up all your damage. And then you land that and press the loadout switch input twice to quickly get back to the loadout you were just using.

In my case, I was using a colossal greatsword near the end of the game that out-damaged all the other colossal greatswords on average, except for when exploiting an elemental weakness.

An infusion path perk with an upgraded Presto line can help keep the damage up on top of that. With Elementalist having so many purposes to help with survival, dealing elemental damage, and landing a status effect sooner - so it doesn't feel very out of the way for a physical leaning build that just wants better survival - but also bonus when their attacks are infused. (If low Battlemage, mask line isn't upgraded, don't want to use an infuse path perk - then having a mask that infuses upon awakening works well for this instead.)

Ooh good point. Now that you mention it, I remember the pure physical UGS from the demo doing criminal amounts of damage with its finisher.

Didn't know swapping loadouts gave you awakening either, good tip.