Can't Counter...

[iMod]

In game, if I don't counter immediately I'll get hit. I can be in mid swing on the guy who has the counter icon, and he will hit me. In mid cape stun and he hits me... Unlike in Arkham City where if you're in an animation that can't be stopped, they can't hit you. It's starting to piss me off when I'm trying to complete challenges, but I can't because I'm in an animation that won't stop until it's done, and I get hit by the guy I was attacking... Going in for a punch on the guy who just had a counter icon pop over his head, and my attack goes into slow motion, but his doesn't. It makes it near impossible to keep up a combo when they hit me before I make contact with them. In Arkham City, I was just able to beat the game with barely getting hit once. Never died, then I go back and play this and I can barely keep a combo.... Wtf.

[Cluckypower]

So you are trying to punch someone who is also trying to punch you?

[Crow]

They could always hit you when you were about to punch, cape stun (except on the third "ultra stun"), redirect/aerial attack, or ground takedown them, they just weren't as fast on the other games so it gave you enough time to counter before they got to you (for the most part) the counter timing changed a tad and it feels like it's massive, but in all truthfulness, it's just a matter of getting used to it

On this game the enemies are much more aware of you and don't really give you time to breath in combat, it's not the beat by beat it was on AA and AC, you actually gotta work a bit harder just to not get punched mid combo, but once you do get the hang of it, you can keep up big combos with no problem as if it was AC all over again

[Wobb the Great and Terrible!!!!!]

This is already known.
The fanboys keep defending it, but the combat in this game is totally ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up. The thugs are faster than batman. You can start you punch at the same time, or even before, the thug does, and he WILL hit you first, every single time. No matter which goon it is, armoured, standard, boss, whoever, he WILL throw a punch faster than batman.
This, to me, makes batman a complete ♥♥♥♥♥ in this game.
Also, countering is broken, because quite often you can be hit by someone else while countering a single attack. I have been hit in the back of the head by a bat wielding thug whilst countering an unarmed thug, who was the only person attacking when I countered. But as I was in the middle of smacking him, I get hit. Nice.
I have also cape stunned someone and carried out the stun 10ft in front of them. They have still been stunned, and I have done the cape stun stomp move, and run up thin air 10ft away, and knocked the guy down without being anywhere near him.
I have also (this happens a LOT) attacked towards someone and had bats just lazily punch the air just in front of them, or just do nothing, or even swing at them but miss totally, punching at the air at the side of their head, breaking my combo and getting me hit.
They just aren't a very good developer, that's all I can say. Because the predator encounters are just as bad half the time.

[Wobb the Great and Terrible!!!!!]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Crowlls:

They could always hit you when you were about to punch, cape stun (except on the third "ultra stun"), redirect/aerial attack, or ground takedown them, they just weren't as fast on the other games so it gave you enough time to counter before they got to you (for the most part) the counter timing changed a tad and it feels like it's massive, but in all truthfulness, it's just a matter of getting used to it

On this game the enemies are much more aware of you and don't really give you time to breath in combat, it's not the beat by beat it was on AA and AC, you actually gotta work a bit harder just to not get punched mid combo, but once you do get the hang of it, you can keep up big combos with no problem as if it was AC all over again

They could always hit you, but it's different in this game. The timing is completely off. They thought they were changing it up, maybe putting their own spin on it. All they did was make it so lame that it is often annoying and zero fun.
Especially when you get to the higher difficulties, and the goons are twice as fast as batman could ever be.
I always thought batman was fast, agile, tough, and limber? Not in this game

[EbonHawk]

I just finally got past Bane in I Am The Night mode and I can tell you that the combat is way tougher in Origins than it ever thought of being in Asylum or City. It's definitely "off" by a huge factor, and it is very annoying that no one can be anywhere near you or definitely not in an attack position, and by the time you can smack one guy or counter one guy you get tagged by a 2nd guy who wasn't even in the mix when you started. Thankfully, after switching to DX10/9 mode, it only happens on occasion...maybe once or twice every five or six fights maybe. But when it comes to the Bane boss fight, the timing gets even further off. For me, it's the one fight that consistently plays like no other fight in the game.

There have been times when I jump-dodge over Bane's shoulder, and he still manages to grab me and hurl me backward. I start a cape-stun and one or two might connect, but he'll just dodge to the side several body-widths and either hit me miraculously from outside his physical reach (maybe it's a special ability shockwave or something?) or I'll just miss the 3rd cape-stun and either he or one of his goons who weren't even attacking when I started the last cape-stun suddenly hit me from out of nowhere. And one of my favorites: you get trapped in a corner and get bullrushed before you can cape-stun, before you can jump-dodge, nothing works. You just get hit over and over and over until you die with no way to break free of him.

The one that finally disappeared, that I noticed today, was the one where I would do a cape-stun on a regular goon or one holding a shield, and usually one out of every two or three times I tried it I would break a combo for no apparent reason...either Bats just stood there and didn't attack and the combo dropped (not enough time had passed for it to be a "timed expiration" drop of the combo; it just dropped) or my favorite was when I WOULD ACTUALLY HIT SOMEONE AND MY COMBO WOULD DROP!! Thank god that one disappeared today after the latest update. That was one that infuriated me completely.

So, yeah, the combat is definitely trickier, at least for me, but it's not a deal-breaker for me. I've managed to adapt my playing style enough to where I breezed through every part of the game, every boss fight, pit fight, etc up to the Bane fight in IATN. I had to cheat a little and restore a saved game during that fight about 25 times. It's just the one area of the game that plays "randomly" when it comes to combat hits and counters, and cape-stuns. Just makes it almost impossible to get past it. For me.

[Crow]

@w0bbl3r

I'm sorry man, I realize you've had difficulties with the game, all I'm saying is that it's just a matter of getting used to it, it's not impossible just because it's (a little) different. You have a whole array of moves you can use, the game's combat isn't just punch and counter.

I'm not very good at video games, I only actually play these Arkham (or just generally DC-related) games, but I can play AO fine and stack pretty high combos; I'm playing on "normal" difficulty, I haven't got around trying on hard yet, but still? It's just about getting used to the timing and making the most of it. (And I know for a fact that once you do really REALLY get used to AO's combat, you're gonna be 20x better when playing AC/AA)

So the thugs don't line up and wait for you to punch them like they did on AC, so what? They come at you fast and all at once all the time when you're doing a beatdown, well evade? Special takedown? Bat Swarm? Gadgets? Seriously, just make the most of the abilities the character has, that's why they're there

Also I'm not saying that it doesn't have its flaws, Sometimes thugs do fly at you, combos break for no reason or counter won't counter, but it's not 100% of the time it happens, you can stack a huge combo just as easly as it can break, which I do agree it's annoying, but again, it's easy to maintain a combo when you're adding variety to your combat, not just punch and counter.

One thing that do piss me off though is when Batman just decides he doesn't want to do a ground takedown on the last guy on challenge mode and just breaks the combo? Disagrace

[Wobb the Great and Terrible!!!!!]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Crowlls:

@w0bbl3r

I'm sorry man, I realize you've had difficulties with the game, all I'm saying is that it's just a matter of getting used to it, it's not impossible just because it's (a little) different. You have a whole array of moves you can use, the game's combat isn't just punch and counter.

I'm not very good at video games, I only actually play these Arkham (or just generally DC-related) games, but I can play AO fine and stack pretty high combos; I'm playing on "normal" difficulty, I haven't got around trying on hard yet, but still? It's just about getting used to the timing and making the most of it. (And I know for a fact that once you do really REALLY get used to AO's combat, you're gonna be 20x better when playing AC/AA)

So the thugs don't line up and wait for you to punch them like they did on AC, so what? They come at you fast and all at once all the time when you're doing a beatdown, well evade? Special takedown? Bat Swarm? Gadgets? Seriously, just make the most of the abilities the character has, that's why they're there

Also I'm not saying that it doesn't have its flaws, Sometimes thugs do fly at you, combos break for no reason or counter won't counter, but it's not 100% of the time it happens, you can stack a huge combo just as easly as it can break, which I do agree it's annoying, but again, it's easy to maintain a combo when you're adding variety to your combat, not just punch and counter.

One thing that do piss me off though is when Batman just decides he doesn't want to do a ground takedown on the last guy on challenge mode and just breaks the combo? Disagrace

It's not a little different, it's a lot different. Well, it's a small change that MAKES a big difference.
I know you can get used to it, but it turns the combat into less of a skill based challenge, and more of a counter-counter-counter-evade-counter-evade-evade-counter-takedown kind of monotonous chore at times.
I haven't even bothered with the challenge maps, and they are something that I still love to do in the previous games.
The only thing is with this if you do use the constant counter and evade tactic, is that you still get screwed by the bugs.
Like I just had a fight with just 2 guys, and I tried to grapple launch one with the grapple takedown. However, bats flew into the guy, he spazzed out, flicking and flipping all over the place, bouncing off the floor, the walls, his friend. I knocked out his friend, got the score for finishing the fight (25%), started to walk off, and was then punched in the back of the head by the guy who had been flicking around, even though it had finished the encounter as if he was down, and he wasn't moving when I left.
Another is when bats hits nothing and you have clearly targetted someone. Or when the quickfire gadgets either don't work (until you manually fire a gadget, that seems to fix it), or somehow break the combo. The concussion grenade is especially bad for this. It breaks my combo almost every time I use it. At least half of the time anyway. Another reason not to use that I guess (another reason being how it is useless anyway).
They destroyed the combat, plain and simple.
It's still kind of fun, but these problems break up that fun so much it gets annoying. And the fighting as it stands, even without the bugs, just isn't as fun and engaging as it is in the previous titles.
I still love fighting in AC, and will often play the tougher challenge maps just for fun, even though I have over half the challenge maps untried in origins, and almost all of the predator and campaigns I haven't even looked at, let alone tried.

[Crow]

How is it less of a skill challenge if all you had to do on AA and AC was to punch and punch, most of the time you didn't even need to bother countering? An occasional evade here, a 90% of the time unstopped beatdown there, the combat was just beat by beat all the time. Of course AC is still a fantastic game, I love it to pieces and its still my favorite of the series, but the combat was always pretty easy; you could always just tell who was going to attack you next, guys with guns took a lifetime to start shooting and when they did they hardly ever hit you, dudes with shields or the electric sticks barely ever moved (Except the Tyger guards), especially now in comparison to AO.

Unfortunately the things you've described seem like actual bugs and glitches, which I can sympathize, although I haven't experienced none of those myself. However that's not really because the combat is just a little "off" it seems like actual programming issues you ended up with, which definitely sucks and I can see why it would be so frustrating. I've seen a lot of people reporting stuff that thugs flicker and disappear and fly all from the other side of the room, I haven't experienced none of that so that's probably why the combat's change doesn't bother me that much...

Also the concussion detonator is a fool's errand, it's just not worth the risk to use it to escape a tight spot especially if there's a lot of guys (it's just plain useless), it's the same as exploding extinguishers and the smoke confusing the guys, it will always most likely break your combo either because the thugs will move randomly or that they will hit you out of nowhere. I miss the electric thingy Batman had on AC a lot, that gadget was amazing, expecially when you used it on freeflow.

I haven't finished the challenges yet because it's just so much work to have to go through all the campaigns so it can unlock the extreme maps to play them individually, but I do enjoy them a lot, and those new ones that came out from the Initiation DLC are pretty fun (I haven't tried the predator ones yet though) I always just do the combat ones first to get it out of the way, predator rooms are my favorite

[Astori Heichalot]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von w0bbl3r:

I still love fighting in AC, and will often play the tougher challenge maps just for fun, even though I have over half the challenge maps untried in origins, and almost all of the predator and campaigns I haven't even looked at, let alone tried.

because AC is way much easier to punch and counter.

the reason you could do harder challenge maps on AC, is because AC fighting does easier.
if you have difficulities playing a harder game, that does not make that a bad game.
amirite?

[Mr.2k9]

i played all 3 arkham and i gotta say i prefer origin cause its harder to stack all those combo...

[Gûts]

If a game is hard that's fine. If a game relies on bugs to make it hard, that's not fine. The controls ARE bugged no matter what you are trying to say. I played with DX11 controls and switched to DX9... and the combat suddenly became A LOT!!!!! less frustrating. Suddenly Batman started responding when I pressed counter. And I even have video footage to prove it.

There's no freaking way that I suddenly started playing better from 1 day to the next.

[EbonHawk]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von w0bbl3r:

I haven't even bothered with the challenge maps, and they are something that I still love to do in the previous games.

You should give them a shot then. The combat in the challenge maps is way easier and very similar to what it was in AC and Asylum. It's much easier to rack up big combos, especially playing as Bruce Wayne in the new Initiation DLC challenge maps. He actually moves too fast and I had to get used to repositioning the game camera rapidly and almost spastically just to keep up with the freeflow. It's insane. And insanely fun. Even the challenge maps in the core game (Origins) is much improved and more like the previous two games.

Although, with your luck, it might be messed up too. Not being ugly, just saying. I remember you saying the DX10/9 thing didn't help your game so I'm wondering if the challenge maps in your core game are any different, like mine are. I know you've probably tried it at one point, but have you tried deleting your game (local content, game's directories, the config files, etc) and reinstalling the game from scratch after a fresh download? What have you got to lose? You can save your saved game files, all your config files, etc and try it. I would give it a shot if I were in your shoes.

HEHE! Spastic is censored?! Wow. Why? Because it's politically incorrect?

[Wobb the Great and Terrible!!!!!]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EbonHawk:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von w0bbl3r:

I haven't even bothered with the challenge maps, and they are something that I still love to do in the previous games.

You should give them a shot then. The combat in the challenge maps is way easier and very similar to what it was in AC and Asylum. It's much easier to rack up big combos, especially playing as Bruce Wayne in the new Initiation DLC challenge maps. He actually moves too fast and I had to get used to repositioning the game camera rapidly and almost spastically just to keep up with the freeflow. It's insane. And insanely fun. Even the challenge maps in the core game (Origins) is much improved and more like the previous two games.

Although, with your luck, it might be messed up too. Not being ugly, just saying. I remember you saying the DX10/9 thing didn't help your game so I'm wondering if the challenge maps in your core game are any different, like mine are. I know you've probably tried it at one point, but have you tried deleting your game (local content, game's directories, the config files, etc) and reinstalling the game from scratch after a fresh download? What have you got to lose? You can save your saved game files, all your config files, etc and try it. I would give it a shot if I were in your shoes.

HEHE! Spastic is censored?! Wow. Why? Because it's politically incorrect?

I didn't mean I hadn't TRIED them. I worded that wrong. I meant I haven't bothered to try them all. I did around half. But got so sick of losing my combo to a hit whilst in the middle of a counter animation, or quickfire gadgets either not firing and breaking the combo or firing and breaking the combo anyway.
So I stopped.
And deathstroke is even worse, because his moves are ridiculously long and overly showy, meaning you get hit all the time when all you are trying to do is hit or counter someone. His gadgets are either a clone of bats', or a clone or robin and nightwing, or just rubbish.
This game just isn't as good.
I posted a thread about a quote from the PCgamer review, where they said exactly why this combat is bad and the other games were great. And it's all about timing.
The other games' combat was based on rhythm action games, and it worked perfectly.
This isn't "more difficult", it's just rubbish.
It's more difficult in a stupid and unfair way (being hit in the middle of a counter animation is NEVER difficult, just crap), but not more CHALLENGING, which is what it should have been. It would have been more challenging if rocksteady had made it, I am certain of that.
I just hope they don't keep this developer on to rush out an arkham game every year with 2 developers, ala call of doody (it looks like that's what they are trying to do here).
They should leave the series with rocksteady. They have proved themselves already with 2 far superior games to this (not that this is bad, but it's not great like the others).

[EbonHawk]

I just hope Rocksteady doesn't think WB's changes were a step forward and decide to keep them. That would just be...catastrophic.

[Wobb the Great and Terrible!!!!!]

♥♥♥♥, I never thought of that.
I would like to think that they are smarter than that. The people who prefer this to the rocksteady games are the minority, and they can surely see all the problems with the game, both technical and practical.
I have more faith in another arkham game from rocksteady being awesome than another from wbm.
If these guys release another arkham game I won't buy it until it's below £10, that's for sure. Rocksteady I will buy pretty much day 1
Also, the DLC pricing here seems insane as well; a couple of skins and challenge maps for the same price that the harley DLC was? I know harley story was short, but it was great to play robin through a story, and see how his shield could work for things other than just a battering ram in combat. And also great fun to fight those wonder tower robot things.
That DLC lasted about 2 hours to play through once (I played it 3 times). This will be done in less than half an hour, and that's being generous.
Glad I didn't buy the season pass. Especially since I already have half of the skins that I unlocked just by playing the game (nice move WB)