Story discussion

[ChickenSteven]

Im wondering why joker always sees batman as a demon or nightmare batman, Whys that exactly?

[Crow]

Joker is a delusional crazy man, twisted and downright insane, Arkham Origins explored that a bit further going "inside" of his head on the Red Hood part showing what's the Joker's POV of what happened at the chemical plant. On the Joker's mind he sees him as this creature that turned him into what he is; it's much more stylized than what's like in the comics, but hell it makes sense I guess.

[ChickenSteven]

Thanks, I played through then end of the game today and i find it very interesting just how joker has developed in general, I'd love to see some Back story filler or something focused around his story only.

[Araujo]

It was really great seeing how the made it connect just how Obsessed with Batman the Joker really is, and why. And it worked for me. Seeing how Harley enters the equation also added to that greatly, it felts like a prelude to a perfect storm really.

[Bite]

There's a line I don't get, Joker says it at the very end of the game, when he grabs the glass shards in the chapel and he says "We both exist because of them!" I really don't get what he means by that, anyone have any idea? thanks in advance. :)

[Crow]

Batman exists because of the criminals, and the Joker exists because of Batman, so basically Batman and the Joker both exist because of "them"

[Bite]

Originally posted by Crowlls:

Batman exists because of the criminals, and the Joker exists because of Batman, so basically Batman and the Joker both exist because of "them"

Does the Joker mention criminals anywhere in that conversation though? I can't seem to recall that.

[Crow]

Originally posted by Bite:

Originally posted by Crowlls:

Batman exists because of the criminals, and the Joker exists because of Batman, so basically Batman and the Joker both exist because of "them"

Does the Joker mention criminals anywhere in that conversation though? I can't seem to recall that.

No, but I figured it was implied. Batman had just fought a bunch of criminals/villains all just to get to the Joker in the "end game"

I could be wrong though

[CursedPanther]

Originally posted by Crowlls:

Originally posted by Bite:

Does the Joker mention criminals anywhere in that conversation though? I can't seem to recall that.

No, but I figured it was implied. Batman had just fought a bunch of criminals/villains all just to get to the Joker in the "end game"

I could be wrong though

They might have carried that idea from Nolan's Dark Knight series. I can't recall the exact line, something vaguely resemble to 'Gotham deserves a better class of criminals'?

[Bite]

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

Originally posted by Crowlls:

No, but I figured it was implied. Batman had just fought a bunch of criminals/villains all just to get to the Joker in the "end game"

I could be wrong though

They might have carried that idea from Nolan's Dark Knight series. I can't recall the exact line, something vaguely resemble to 'Gotham deserves a better class of criminals'?

Well, wasn't the better class of crimminal Two-Face? from that perspective he could be talking about the Assassins, who knows, maybe the line was just added for speculation.

My personal take on it, he's refering to "memories", the ones he shares with Bat, techniclly, they do both exist because of those memories together, at least that's the impression I've got after replaying the game and going through Joker's nightmare again.

[ChickenSteven]

Originally posted by Bite:

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

They might have carried that idea from Nolan's Dark Knight series. I can't recall the exact line, something vaguely resemble to 'Gotham deserves a better class of criminals'?

Well, wasn't the better class of crimminal Two-Face? from that perspective he could be talking about the Assassins, who knows, maybe the line was just added for speculation.

My personal take on it, he's refering to "memories", the ones he shares with Bat, techniclly, they do both exist because of those memories together, at least that's the impression I've got after replaying the game and going through Joker's nightmare again.

I agree on the part you said about joker referring to the memories, If you stay and listen to the poem/song joker sings in the credits, He referrences what happened in the past and how it made them do what they do. Its so great. Love that i made this discussion :)

[Crow]

Originally posted by Bite:

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

They might have carried that idea from Nolan's Dark Knight series. I can't recall the exact line, something vaguely resemble to 'Gotham deserves a better class of criminals'?

Well, wasn't the better class of crimminal Two-Face? from that perspective he could be talking about the Assassins, who knows, maybe the line was just added for speculation.

My personal take on it, he's refering to "memories", the ones he shares with Bat, techniclly, they do both exist because of those memories together, at least that's the impression I've got after replaying the game and going through Joker's nightmare again.

It makes sense I guess, although Batman never makes any connection between the Joker being Red Hood in the game? On the memories Batman does see him without the Hood, but I don't remember Batman saying anything like he's acknowledging that they are the same person? You'd think that him, of all people, would remember right?

I'm really intrigued now oh

[logan024]

Originally posted by Bite:

There's a line I don't get, Joker says it at the very end of the game, when he grabs the glass shards in the chapel and he says "We both exist because of them!" I really don't get what he means by that, anyone have any idea? thanks in advance. :)

In the graphic novel Batman: The Killing Joke (definitely a must read), it was implied that Joker was "tricked" by some criminals to don the Red Hood costume and was nearly apprehended by Bats before falling from a vat of chemicals .

On the other hand, we all know that Bats was created when his parents was gunned down in front of him. There was a very powerful line in the book that Arkham Origins Joker nearly quoted (I was clapping like a seal after he asked Harley if she ever had a bad day?):

"I've proved my point. I've demonstrated there's no difference between me and everyone else! All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day. You had a bad day once, am I right? I know I am. I can tell. You had a bad day and everything changed. Why else would you dress up as a flying rat?"

[Crazyspartan]

Originally posted by the_doctor:

Originally posted by Bite:

There's a line I don't get, Joker says it at the very end of the game, when he grabs the glass shards in the chapel and he says "We both exist because of them!" I really don't get what he means by that, anyone have any idea? thanks in advance. :)

In the graphic novel Batman: The Killing Joke (definitely a must read), it was implied that Joker was "tricked" by some criminals to don the Red Hood costume and was nearly apprehended by Bats before falling from a vat of chemicals .

On the other hand, we all know that Bats was created when his parents was gunned down in front of him. There was a very powerful line in the book that Arkham Origins Joker nearly quoted (I was clapping like a seal after he asked Harley if she ever had a bad day?):

"I've proved my point. I've demonstrated there's no difference between me and everyone else! All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day. You had a bad day once, am I right? I know I am. I can tell. You had a bad day and everything changed. Why else would you dress up as a flying rat?"

Lol yeah I had a huge smile on my face when he said that as well. I imagine everyone that-has read "The Killing Joke" really liked the final act of the game.

[EbonHawk]

I wish the game had explained the weird red-head thing Joker was wearing, because I had absolutely no clue and wasn't sure what the significance was.

[Crow]

Originally posted by EbonHawk:

I wish the game had explained the weird red-head thing Joker was wearing, because I had absolutely no clue and wasn't sure what the significance was.

I believe it would lose the impact if they did had explained it. It's important to know that the events we saw on the game weren't what actually happened, rather how the Joker's twisted mind remembers it happening. The Joker dones't like to remember who he was before being the Joker, having to experience and actually talk about those memories from before that time would be OOC, expecially in the context of the game.

Also these Arkham games are all very comic-related and heavy on references, even though they try their best to make it as user-friendly as possible for people who don't know the comics much, they still rely a lot on people who are playing already knowing most of the characters (at least the most popular ones) so they don't have to explain everything you know?