Has the game gotten overcomplicated?

[fromage_enrage]

I have played about 25 hours of the game pre-patch. I had a real blast with it. But I've been picking up the game again after the patch and... wow, I'm really, REALLY confused.

Back then, every talent was straightforward. "This gives you more damage when fighting a boss", "This boosts your damage per mana crystal". And now I have to deal with things that give me... Tailwind? Suppression? Power? They haven't been introduced to me, how am I suppose to figure them out?

For Heaven's Sake, what's the point or shoving so much info down my throat? I just dropped a power potion that reads "Gives you a Power Potion Buff" and then a tooltips tells me "Power Potion Buff gives you more damage for ten rooms", why not tell me directly about the buff it gives me? Just like it used to be?

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for the new content. But am I the only one that feels it's too much at once? Feels like we've gone from catchy straightforward pixelart Roguelite to Path of Exile theorycrafting headachefest.

I'm not trying to be a troll, just wondering. Do I just need to play some more? Feels like a huge gap from the pre-patch game. Can't imagine someone buying the game right now.

[fromage_enrage]

Feels like:

[ROBES OF ULTIMATE DESPAIR]

On being hit by an enemy buffed by AGONY, 50% chance to grant you 25% of your SOMEHOW ELEMENTAL DAMAGE, raised to the power of your LOLIMANERD stacks, rounded down, but only once per prime number floor (if under lightning aura).

[ChocoMaxXx]

dont understand the whinning ?
Tiny Rogues was never suposed to be a casual game ...i mean...yes casu still can play the game and win... but you need to think a lil bit more now and this is great!

Tailwind? Suppression? Power? all thoses things got a tooltip you can learn it ez. sure there is a lot in 1 PATCH. but WHY not just take 2min and read?

the game is perfectly fine. still early access... trying thing, the dev also listening to peep... , tweak and balance coming this friday too for more viability fix..!

im more into deeper system and i still think there is a lot of status , effect and other stats indeed..but... . but why not? you just can check the " A , B , C , S scaling " and go with this and still win. he added a lot of text to help player but you dont need to read each time . learn and evolve from this.

[Ayk-]

It is basically PoE but roguelike. As a PoE player, when I see a stat named from there, I don't even bother reading it, as they work identically the same lmao.
It takes its fun sides from there but it is a double-edged sword. Learning curve can be a bit brutal for new players.
Because its a roguelike, unlike PoE, theorycrafting stuff is unnecessary and won't work if you can't get what you theorized. I would suggest adapting and take flexible items/traits.
Also, I would like to remind, this patch was very long in the making, the dev probably had 2 ideas while finishing implementing one, which explains the SHEER amount of content. I am sure we would see little to no complains if these changes were over time consistently, instead of one big mega sized patch.

[fromage_enrage]

Originally posted by ChocoMaxXx:

dont understand the whinning ?
Tiny Rogues was never suposed to be a casual game ...i mean...yes casu still can play the game and win... but you need to think a lil bit more now and this is great!

Tailwind? Suppression? Power? all thoses things got a tooltip you can learn it ez. sure there is a lot in 1 PATCH. but WHY not just take 2min and read?

the game is perfectly fine. still early access... trying thing, the dev also listening to peep... , tweak and balance coming this friday too for more viability fix..!

im more into deeper system and i still think there is a lot of status , effect and other stats indeed..but... . but why not? you just can check the " A , B , C , S scaling " and go with this and still win. he added a lot of text to help player but you dont need to read each time . learn and evolve from this.

I really did not mean to whine. Just wanted to share my experience, and see if other players were are confused as me diving into this new update.

Let's take this... I would really like to read the toolips, but they're literally off the screen. What do I do then?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3123475663

Oh, and yes, I think TR used to be a "casual" game. But there was nothing wrong with that. A "hardcore" time does not have to mean "I have no idea what talent I'm picking".

[Dollop of Mayo]

I wouldn't say overcomplicated but I would say underexplained.

What in the world does "global tally threshold" mean? The game sure doesn't tell you!

[Freazylex]

Originally posted by They Call Me Steve:

Let's take this... I would really like to read the toolips, but they're literally off the screen. What do I do then?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3123475663

You just need to scroll (up if I remember)

[ChocoMaxXx]

that a lot of tooltip but many of them is not necessary , just here to help . but dev will tweak the tooltip . he know.

[Managedant]

Just ignore the tooltips until the dev implements a visibility update.


I’m LOVING actually knowing what things do for once and how they interact with each other. Every other rogue like game just says “every hit gain agony and sassassfrass sauce for 3 moon shine mullets” with no further explanation and when I swing my weapon, a cow comes out and my Mac boom turns into a PC.

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by They Call Me Steve:

Let's take this... I would really like to read the toolips, but they're literally off the screen. What do I do then?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3123475663

I see a "LB/RB to scroll" tooltip in there. On Keyboard/Mouse controls it's literally the scrollwheel, although the direction is opposite what I'm used to.

[ColorlessGreenIdea]

This is certainly up to personal opinion and different people will have different views, but personally I absolutely agree. A lot of traits and items now just feel so gimmicky, I really do not want any more items that give you an oddly named buff under a specific circumstance, but that's just me.

[The Snopingasusual]

dev plans to add an ingame wiki for stuff like that

[Toosoft]

to be honest i thought too it was complicated, but once you have seen every perk/buff/debuff and others you are just ignoring it. it's nice that its overexplained, meaning if you want to tryhard etc... you can do pretty neet build. such buff and debuff mage with insane 500% buff bonus but to know what is a buff or not thank to the dev for this overexplained tooltip.

[Finn The Inhuman]

IMO there are two levels:

1) has the game objectively gotten too complex
2) has the game become worse at conveying information/managing that complexity

For 1), I think the game has gotten more complex (and the balance has suffered a bit as a result, which I hope will be progressively addressed), but it's nothing terrible. I'm a bit sad about certain things going away or some new mechanics (e.g. I liked the +10 Str = 1 Heart and such, and I think encumbrance has no place in what is otherwise a a pretty barebones arcade-y ARPG), but it's not like this is that hard to follow.

However on 2) I agree, especially the tooltip situation and the description of traits has gotten overly convoluted for what it actually entails IMO. The potion example is very egregious, though I'm also confused by why do shrines give you a consumable that gives you a bonus - what's the point of not just making them into potions? Shrines make sense because you *can't* choose when/where you make use of their boon, that's the constraint, you gotta activate the shrine.

Hopefully some things will be smoothed out, after all this is still just v 0.2.1. There's a long way to go to full release.

[Dlanor]

The game didn't get that much more complicated, it has more clarity through more short hand phrases and labels which also allows synergy to be more varied. The game expects you're able to read a sentence at a time and retain information more often now, which is not complexity. Power Potion is not more complex, it's displayed differently to make it more clear and to allow for potion synergy to be more explicit.

This change allows there to be more synergies and make synergies clearer. It also makes reading things take much less time once you DO learn what the effects do because effects don't need to be directly explained every time, once you learn what Supression is you don't need to read the explanation for it on all of the dozens of items that have it, you can see "+1 Supression" and know what it does. The tooltips exist for until you get to that point.

This has always been an RPG-style roguelike with equipment and traits that have synergy and individual effects. It's not new for the game to say "this does burn damage, this increases burn damage", and it's not more complex for the game to also now have synergy that says "this is an emotion buff, this increases the effects of emotion buffs". It's more content, not content that is more complex.

[Dlanor]

Originally posted by Finn The Inhuman:

IMO there are two levels:

1) has the game objectively gotten too complex
2) has the game become worse at conveying information/managing that complexity

For 1), I think the game has gotten more complex (and the balance has suffered a bit as a result, which I hope will be progressively addressed), but it's nothing terrible. I'm a bit sad about certain things going away or some new mechanics (e.g. I liked the +10 Str = 1 Heart and such, and I think encumbrance has no place in what is otherwise a a pretty barebones arcade-y ARPG), but it's not like this is that hard to follow.

However on 2) I agree, especially the tooltip situation and the description of traits has gotten overly convoluted for what it actually entails IMO. The potion example is very egregious, though I'm also confused by why do shrines give you a consumable that gives you a bonus - what's the point of not just making them into potions? Shrines make sense because you *can't* choose when/where you make use of their boon, that's the constraint, you gotta activate the shrine.

Hopefully some things will be smoothed out, after all this is still just v 0.2.1. There's a long way to go to full release.

The point of not making Shrine rewards into potions is that Shrine rewards are not potions. Shrine rewards have their own synergies, and they do not get Potion synergy. I'm not sure how that confuses people, it's not complex at all to point out that a non-potion item does not get potion synergy so it is not called a potion.