Calling all fans of Spiderweb Games, I need your advice and opinions.

[Harry]

I have been around games since almost their inception. Hailing from Scotland in the UK, I cut my teeth on the Spectrum 48k (the rubber keyed one). I wish I could find one, and not just to enjoy the genuis of Mike Singleton (the sole maker of Lords of Midnight and itcher 3 Doomdark's Revenge, not to mention other gems such as War of the Ring and Midwinter, and I believe Dark Sceptre on what used a modem and was an early version of the net.

Now I mention these classic adventrure games so you guys can get an idea that I am no modernday fan of games only with great graphics and sound. In fact, I have always put story, and innovation, not to mention surprises and plot above all of the the asthetic qualities of games. Sure it is great also to have a glorious world that can incorporate all of this (take Witcher 3 for a prime example). I am also an old rpg, pen and paper enthusiast, as well as history.
Now I became aware of a small studio called Spiderweb way back in the 90's with a game called Geneforge. It was very basic looking, but I remember enjoying it.
Since then, although I have a few Spiderweb games in my back category, I have never had the time or patience to sit down and give one my full attention. Albeit the few chances I had I had the feeling that there was going to be something special lurking underneath.
So now with some free time, and getting a bit tired of the same formulae adopted in the more glamouress rpg's, would I be right in saying that these games are hidden gems? Substance over style? I know it is just a small company, but I like that.
My question for you officianado's is are these really as good as what I suspect? Do they have strong stories and adventures? Are they crammed with intigue and secrets? Do they all exist in the same world? I am not too fussy about how good the combat system is, as long as it is workable and I can progress. I guess what I am asking is, what is the secret for the longevity of this company? Are they different from other rpg's apart from their look? Do they have interesting stories, and are there twists and secrets to be found?
Also which series should I start with. I was going to start with Avernum or the one that sounds similar. Can I transfer pc's after adventures? Really just anything would be a help, and even how you got into them yourselves.

[Harry]

Thanks Benkei, that is good advice. I am a little disappointed as I thought maybe they were secret classics which I had not become aware off. Oh well, perhaps I might enjoy them more.
Also I noticed an advert for a remake of Geneforge 1. Is it worth it do you think?

[Sstavix]

I really should check these forums more often.

I have been a big fan of Spiderweb Software since they released the Exile games for the Mac operating system back in the '90s. I tend to recommend their games to anyone who is looking for RPG recommendations, especially if they are in the mood for "something different."

What really impresses me about Spiderweb's products is that they have a classic feel to them. Most role-playing games nowadays tend to fall into one of two camps: the JRPG (RPG Maker-type games, or the early Final Fantasy games) or the action RPG (Torchlight, Diablo, and I'd even classify the Beamdog remakes of D&D classics in this camp, too). Spiderweb games fall between the two categories, providing the top-down, strategic view of isometric games, but the pacing of turn-based games. I've often said that - outside of the "gold box" games that SSI produced decades ago - Spiderweb Software's RPGs are about as close to a tabletop experience as you can get.

Even though they play similarly, they tend to have their own, separate rulesets. The Avernum games (which I've finished several times) and Avadon play similarly. Geneforge (which I've never really gotten into, I'm sorry to say) has a distinctive, different feel to it. Queen's Wish has a different feel as well, with emphasis on rebuilding an empire - not only do you have to improve your characters, you have to rebuild your settlements, too. I'm actually going through the first Queen's Wish now (on Torment difficulty) so I can be prepared to jump into the recently-released second game.

Each of the different titles takes place in a different world, or setting (or, if there is one overarching connection, Jeff Vogel hasn't revealed it yet). But I would say that each one has a pretty solid storyline and a nice, intriguing world to explore. The weakest game of theirs that I have played, in my opinion, was Avernum 5 - the only game in which I felt the need to cheat in order to make my way through an excruciatingly difficult dungeon (and then the rest of the game felt like a cakewalk after that - it was bizarre), and it felt much more like a railroad plot, in contrast to the open world of the other Avernum games.

All in all, if you're looking for a fun and different approach to RPGs, you really can't go wrong with these games. If you're looking for snazzy graphics, sounds and music, though, you will probably be disappointed. It's the story and the style of the games that really carry Spiderweb products, not the flash and glitter.

[Harry]

Originally posted by Sstavix:

I really should check these forums more often. :rose:

I have been a big fan of Spiderweb Software since they released the Exile games for the Mac operating system back in the '90s. I tend to recommend their games to anyone who is looking for RPG recommendations, especially if they are in the mood for "something different."

What really impresses me about Spiderweb's products is that they have a classic feel to them. Most role-playing games nowadays tend to fall into one of two camps: the JRPG (RPG Maker-type games, or the early Final Fantasy games) or the action RPG (Torchlight, Diablo, and I'd even classify the Beamdog remakes of D&D classics in this camp, too). Spiderweb games fall between the two categories, providing the top-down, strategic view of isometric games, but the pacing of turn-based games. I've often said that - outside of the "gold box" games that SSI produced decades ago - Spiderweb Software's RPGs are about as close to a tabletop experience as you can get.

Even though they play similarly, they tend to have their own, separate rulesets. The Avernum games (which I've finished several times) and Avadon play similarly. Geneforge (which I've never really gotten into, I'm sorry to say) has a distinctive, different feel to it. Queen's Wish has a different feel as well, with emphasis on rebuilding an empire - not only do you have to improve your characters, you have to rebuild your settlements, too. I'm actually going through the first Queen's Wish now (on Torment difficulty) so I can be prepared to jump into the recently-released second game.

Each of the different titles takes place in a different world, or setting (or, if there is one overarching connection, Jeff Vogel hasn't revealed it yet). But I would say that each one has a pretty solid storyline and a nice, intriguing world to explore. The weakest game of theirs that I have played, in my opinion, was Avernum 5 - the only game in which I felt the need to cheat in order to make my way through an excruciatingly difficult dungeon (and then the rest of the game felt like a cakewalk after that - it was bizarre), and it felt much more like a railroad plot, in contrast to the open world of the other Avernum games.

All in all, if you're looking for a fun and different approach to RPGs, you really can't go wrong with these games. If you're looking for snazzy graphics, sounds and music, though, you will probably be disappointed. It's the story and the style of the games that really carry Spiderweb products, not the flash and glitter.

Thanks Sstavix for your detailed reply. I know have several spiderweb games in my library, and perhaps some on GoG. I am currently playing a lot of rpg's which I missed first time around, and am going to start one of the Avernums just after writing this. I don't own the first in the series, and I meant to ask if the games run in a sequence, like Baldur's Gate I and II for example, or are they all their own self-contained games? Also are their recurring npc's that you get to know after each game? Is there a grand, over-arching quest line that runs through each game? And can you take your characters from one game onto the next?

I understand the graphics are very retro in style, but this does not diminish my interest, in fact, it may prove less distracting and allow me to focus more on the story.

Also, have you experience with pen and paper rpg's? I am currently working on a project that you may be interested in taking part with. I ran a gaming world for 30 years and you can imagine how detailed and immersive that became. Now I plan to use modern tools such as rolld20 to bring it into the digital form. Once I have a good amount entered, I will run a campaign which was a favourite of my old team, and if you are interested, it would be great to have you as a player. Feel free to add my to friends either way.

[Sstavix]

Originally posted by Harry:

I am currently playing a lot of rpg's which I missed first time around, and am going to start one of the Avernums just after writing this. I don't own the first in the series, and I meant to ask if the games run in a sequence, like Baldur's Gate I and II for example, or are they all their own self-contained games?

There is an overarching story, but they aren't created in such a way that you have to play each one in order to understand what's going on. Each game provides a brief synopsis of what happened in the earlier game(s) so you aren't completely thrust into the middle of the story without any idea as to what's happening.

Originally posted by Harry:

Also are their recurring npc's that you get to know after each game? Is there a grand, over-arching quest line that runs through each game? And can you take your characters from one game onto the next?

There are recurring NPCs that appear in the Avernum and Queen's Wish series, and somewhat in Avadon. I can't really speak for the Geneforge series, since I haven't played them much (and I even backed the revamp on Kickstarter...). That being said, your characters are NOT recurring. They start each game at level 1.

Originally posted by Harry:

Also, have you experience with pen and paper rpg's? I am currently working on a project that you may be interested in taking part with. I ran a gaming world for 30 years and you can imagine how detailed and immersive that became. Now I plan to use modern tools such as rolld20 to bring it into the digital form. Once I have a good amount entered, I will run a campaign which was a favourite of my old team, and if you are interested, it would be great to have you as a player. Feel free to add my to friends either way.

Sounds intriguing! I have had quite a bit of experience with tabletop games (ran a D&D campaign set in the Forgotten Reals for nearly 10 years) so if time allows I might be able to help playtest it.