Red Matter 2 PCVR has same polygon levels as the Quest 2 standalone (phoneVR) version?

[Rune]

Looks to me that the game totally was designed for a bottom-end phone processor - so PCVR gets same polygon levels as the Quest 2 standalone version (Quest 2 uses the extremely slow Adreno 650 gpu, part of the XR2 SoC)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqNRRtDgytE

So we get no more furniture - no more complex surface polygon levels - in a room or location than a phone processor can handle? In Red Matter 2, don't focus too much on what you see - it's more what you do not see - all that was removed to make a phone processor keep 72 or 90 fps.

This is the Quest 2 standalone compared to a real pc - even an old a GTX 1060 is 6 times faster:

https://mk0uploadvrcom4bcwhj.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/OculusHeadsetGPUsCompared_PC2.png

The cpu is also extremely slow in the Quest 2:

https://uploadvr.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/OculusHeadsetCPUComparisonWithIntel2.png

Source: https://uploadvr.com/oculus-quest-2-benchmarks/

I'm using a 10 core / 20 threads i9 10900K - I wonder what the game could have looked like, if it wasn't designed for a bottom-end phoneVR processor.

The PCVR version has dynamic shadows and higher res textures according to devs. Even if the game does look nice, designing a game's polygon count for a mobile processor is worlds apart from real PCVR games like Alyx - no comparison at all.

But I love to be wrong - so dear developers - do PCVR owners get same polygon levels as Quest 2 standalone users?

[sune.joergensen]

To bad for PC VR and Lone Echo 1 and 2 looks so much better, so no buy here.

[VerticalRobot]

Originally posted by Rune:

But I love to be wrong - so dear developers - do PCVR owners get same polygon levels as Quest 2 standalone users?

Polygon levels on PC are higher. Every mesh is rendered at its highest LOD possible unlike on Quest, where pretty much every mesh is being lodded. Sometimes the highest LOD is not even displayed on Quest and is reserved for the PC version.

[Rune]

Originally posted by VerticalRobot:

Originally posted by Rune:

But I love to be wrong - so dear developers - do PCVR owners get same polygon levels as Quest 2 standalone users?

Polygon levels on PC are higher. Every mesh is rendered at its highest LOD possible unlike on Quest, where pretty much every mesh is being lodded. Sometimes the highest LOD is not even displayed on Quest and is reserved for the PC version.

That sounds good, thanks, even if the two versions are very hard to tell apart in the above YouTube video. But everything looks great in YouTube videos and 2D screenshots, while true differences easily will show through the hmd lenses. Also lack of antialiasing cannot be seen in such videos etc.

I will be buying Red Matter 2 when it arrives and check out the quality using the Valve Index.

[djstelo]

Originally posted by VerticalRobot:

Originally posted by Rune:

But I love to be wrong - so dear developers - do PCVR owners get same polygon levels as Quest 2 standalone users?

Polygon levels on PC are higher. Every mesh is rendered at its highest LOD possible unlike on Quest, where pretty much every mesh is being lodded. Sometimes the highest LOD is not even displayed on Quest and is reserved for the PC version.

thankgoodness.

can we get bhaptic support please?

[Erafiel]

I wouldnt jump to conclusions based on OP. Developers says otherwise. I will buy and test it. If for nothing else other than to support the industry (instead of hating on it.) and those that make the effort to bring quality games to VR.

God knows we beg for more content. So it's just dumb to criticize it in this way. Report on factual stuff for sure. But no reason to paint it as crap.

[sune.joergensen]

I see almost no difference between Quest 2 and PC VR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YRPk16uA3g
Red Matter 1 had great lightning but this is all gone now.
When you see what Lone Echo 2 can look like on PC VR, it is very sad Red Matter 2 did not get the same kind of love for the PC version.
It looks great on Quest 2, but there is a reason I have a 3090 and Vive 2 Pro.

[Rune]

Originally posted by sune.joergensen:

I see almost no difference between Quest 2 and PC VR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YRPk16uA3g
Red Matter 1 had great lightning but this is all gone now.
When you see what Lone Echo 2 can look like on PC VR, it is very sad Red Matter 2 did not get the same kind of love for the PC version.
It looks great on Quest 2, but there is a reason I have a 3090 and Vive 2 Pro.

Fully agree - we're playing a game made for ultra-low-end phone gpus, no doubt about that. I got my RTX 3090 while is was very expensive - and it's about 30 times faster than the Adreno 650 phone gpu in the Quest 2. For many high-end users it may work as a provocation seeing that there are no differences between the Quest and PCVR version that you easily can spot in a 1080p video.

Of course nice for the devs that they can make a game that looks good on bottom-end hardware - and then feed it to ultra-high-end users too. That's not the main issue though - the main issue is that this game could have been so much more if devs had focused on the current high-end PCVR gpus. Everything in this game was designed for a phone gpu - and the devs optimized surfaces and added some shadows, but at its core Red Matter 2 totally is phoneVR/GearVR. Actually new high-end phones would be able to run the game better than the aging Adreno 650, lol. And let's not start the cpu discussion too, sigh.

Also seems the game is not selling well for PCVR, only 35 ratings on Steam, only 12 in the Rift Store. Many may not want to support Meta's road to the very bottom of VR (or many may not want to support Meta/Facebook in any way) - and will not support any kind of Quest games. I do not support the Questification of PCVR, which Red Matter 2 is an example of, but I loved Red Matter and wanted to support the devs.
Surely, buying this game is telling devs to make more games designed for bottom-end phone gpus - and then modify them slightly and feed the games to high-end VR users.

Alyx has sold more that 2 mill copies, so PCVR is a gigantic market if you catch the attention of high-end PCVR users. I wonder why this game has so few ratings on Steam - indicating no one buys the game. Devs did implement Index controllers very well, but of course you need to buy the game to see that...

[A Gilling]

I just want to thank the devs for releasing the game on PC, I dont know how the game looks or compares on Quest but it looks great on PC and im really enjoying the game after 5 hours and still not finished.

Please ignore the elitist PC VR snobs that probably put game developers off even releasing on PC when they get such snooty comments like that.

Anyone reading this the game looks and plays great its one of my favourite VR games and one of the best looking on PC regardless of whether it was built with the quest in mind or not.

I appreciate the time developers like this put into making great VR games that push the boundaries and release a good length VR game with great graphics and interactions, its incredibly polished, well paced and I would happily buy and play any other games Vertical Robot make for VR in the future.

[djstelo]

Originally posted by VerticalRobot:

Originally posted by Rune:

But I love to be wrong - so dear developers - do PCVR owners get same polygon levels as Quest 2 standalone users?

Polygon levels on PC are higher. Every mesh is rendered at its highest LOD possible unlike on Quest, where pretty much every mesh is being lodded. Sometimes the highest LOD is not even displayed on Quest and is reserved for the PC version.

do you still stand behind his comment?

[Rune]

Originally posted by djstelo:

Originally posted by VerticalRobot:

Polygon levels on PC are higher. Every mesh is rendered at its highest LOD possible unlike on Quest, where pretty much every mesh is being lodded. Sometimes the highest LOD is not even displayed on Quest and is reserved for the PC version.

do you still stand behind his comment?

I think that comment is fully correct - but you need to wear a hmd to spot the differences between Quest and PCVR, the differences are so subtle you can't see them in normal YouTube videos. You need to be very close to surfaces.
I read this short comparison of Quest vs. PCVR from a person who can see the difference:

"I have also played the standalone mobile VR version and while it's surprisingly very good, PCVR adds much better textures and sharper objects."

Still number of enemies and how much stuff/objects you see in rooms were decided by a phone processor (Quest and PCVR version have same amount of objects, you do not get more paintings, chairs, containers etc in the PCVR version) - and maybe also the physics are same for Quest and PCVR, even if a modern PC cpu is extremely more capable than the XR2's Kryo cpu. Still a great game though.

[kakek]

Or you could just consider wether the game is good enough and looks good enough to enjoy as is.
It is, and it does.

If you skip this game out of principle the message you are sending is mainly that PC consumers are fickles, and PC sales will bomb if you do not release a masterpiece at the pinacle of techs. (Alyx )
What the devs will take out of your petty boycot is not that they should have made a high tech PC exclusive. It's that it was not worth porting it to PC at all.
I mean think about it : they release a game on Quest 2, and a pretty good PC port. It honnestly looks pretty good on both plateform. But the PC gamers start whining that it does not have enough polygons and high res textures, and in the end they sell very few PC copies compared to Quest 2.
What do you think they will do for the next game ?
Forget the plateform that brought them the most sales, and focus on a much more limited plateform that had mediocre sales ? Or go for the plateform that worked best ?

Also, if you bought a 3090 that you knew only very few gamers would own, and are now frustrated that games are not calibrated to the take advantage of your very expensive hardware, that's on you dude.
When you buy top of the line hardware, you KNOW it's not gonna be fully used for years.

[Rune]

Originally posted by kakek:

Or you could just consider wether the game is good enough and looks good enough to enjoy as is.
It is, and it does.

If you skip this game out of principle the message you are sending is mainly that PC consumers are fickles, and PC sales will bomb if you do not release a masterpiece at the pinacle of techs. (Alyx )
What the devs will take out of your petty boycot is not that they should have made a high tech PC exclusive. It's that it was not worth porting it to PC at all.
I mean think about it : they release a game on Quest 2, and a pretty good PC port. It honnestly looks pretty good on both plateform. But the PC gamers start whining that it does not have enough polygons and high res textures, and in the end they sell very few PC copies compared to Quest 2.
What do you think they will do for the next game ?
Forget the plateform that brought them the most sales, and focus on a much more limited plateform that had mediocre sales ? Or go for the plateform that worked best ?

Also, if you bought a 3090 that you knew only very few gamers would own, and are now frustrated that games are not calibrated to the take advantage of your very expensive hardware, that's on you dude.
When you buy top of the line hardware, you KNOW it's not gonna be fully used for years.

I'm fully using the RTX 3090, running the game in Index res 400% does create an awesome image quality. But I think the gpu power could have been used making an even better PCVR version - maybe with many proper npcs and with much better lighting.

Btw, RTX 3090 is fully used in many games, where I can't go much higher the Index res 200%, like Kayak VR - and I can't even get solid 90 fps using Index res 100% with maxed graphics settings in Green Hell VR. Need a RTX 5090 for that game ;-)

The point is, when Red Matter 2 looks as nice as it does, how do you think the game could have been if devs used a RTX 2080 as the main target?

An old GTX 1060 is 6 times faster than the Quest 2 gpu - that's something to think about too:

https://uploadvr.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/OculusHeadsetGPUsCompared_PC2.png
Source: https://uploadvr.com/oculus-quest-2-benchmarks/

I'm not fond of VR games made for phone gpus, I do hope many devs will change focus when PSVR2 arrives. 2c.

[VerticalRobot]

Originally posted by Rune:

Originally posted by kakek:

Or you could just consider wether the game is good enough and looks good enough to enjoy as is.
It is, and it does.

If you skip this game out of principle the message you are sending is mainly that PC consumers are fickles, and PC sales will bomb if you do not release a masterpiece at the pinacle of techs. (Alyx )
What the devs will take out of your petty boycot is not that they should have made a high tech PC exclusive. It's that it was not worth porting it to PC at all.
I mean think about it : they release a game on Quest 2, and a pretty good PC port. It honnestly looks pretty good on both plateform. But the PC gamers start whining that it does not have enough polygons and high res textures, and in the end they sell very few PC copies compared to Quest 2.
What do you think they will do for the next game ?
Forget the plateform that brought them the most sales, and focus on a much more limited plateform that had mediocre sales ? Or go for the plateform that worked best ?

Also, if you bought a 3090 that you knew only very few gamers would own, and are now frustrated that games are not calibrated to the take advantage of your very expensive hardware, that's on you dude.
When you buy top of the line hardware, you KNOW it's not gonna be fully used for years.

I'm fully using the RTX 3090, running the game in Index res 400% does create an awesome image quality. But I think the gpu power could have been used making an even better PCVR version - maybe with many proper npcs and with much better lighting.

Btw, RTX 3090 is fully used in many games, where I can't go much higher the Index res 200%, like Kayak VR - and I can't even get solid 90 fps using Index res 100% with maxed graphics settings in Green Hell VR. Need a RTX 5090 for that game ;-)

The point is, when Red Matter 2 looks as nice as it does, how do you think the game could have been if devs used a RTX 2080 as the main target?

An old GTX 1060 is 6 times faster than the Quest 2 gpu - that's something to think about too:

https://uploadvr.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/OculusHeadsetGPUsCompared_PC2.png
Source: https://uploadvr.com/oculus-quest-2-benchmarks/

I'm not fond of VR games made for phone gpus, I do hope many devs will change focus when PSVR2 arrives. 2c.

Quick question: How come you are not using 144hz with your Valve Index? We also have a 3090 and wanted to make sure the game could run at 144hz and looks as crisp as it could be.

[Teiryn]

Originally posted by A Gilling:

I just want to thank the devs for releasing the game on PC, I dont know how the game looks or compares on Quest but it looks great on PC and im really enjoying the game after 5 hours and still not finished.

Please ignore the elitist PC VR snobs that probably put game developers off even releasing on PC when they get such snooty comments like that.

Anyone reading this the game looks and plays great its one of my favourite VR games and one of the best looking on PC regardless of whether it was built with the quest in mind or not.

I appreciate the time developers like this put into making great VR games that push the boundaries and release a good length VR game with great graphics and interactions, its incredibly polished, well paced and I would happily buy and play any other games Vertical Robot make for VR in the future.

Agreed. I just finished it and really enjoyed it. Vertical Robot—you guys are great at game design, and I hope to see more from you!

I think people should be grateful that we're even getting this, especially because of how the VR market currently is; this is a full-length quality VR game sporting impressive graphics and overall design.

[NeoOne]

I just played about an hour on it. Bough it from the Oculus store and using my 30% off coupon. For me, is a $22 game. I have a RTX 3080 and it has no problems running at 80 Hz, 1.6x resolution in the Oculus app AND using 1.2 super sampling in the game. Rooms have litte stuff inside but the game engine does the job. VRAM being used as high as 9 GB.

Seriously? This is the story of the game. You aren't going to see anyone in the game. That's the story line. You think the game should have more stuff going on just because it should be running under a rtx 3090? Is probably won't be called Red Matter 2. Dead Space maybe?

I played Lone Echo 2. The game has so much explanation that it isn't even unpredictable anymore.