Endless Legend VS Endless Space?

[Toxicwire†]

Which one do you like the most and why?

[Hobo Elf]

Originally posted by Nasarog:

Originally posted by Hobo Elf:

I have :) it does nothing at all, really :)

Edit: Just to be clear for those who haven't played Endless Legend and don't know, the AI acts the same on the easiest and hardest difficulties, the difference being that their units get twice as much health on the hardest. That's all.

Not in my experience, but I will not argue with you about the AI. Not because you are wrong and I am right, but because you make valid points, and I don't disagree with you. I don't play with custom factions, so that probably makes the game harder for me. But once I beat the game with all the "stock" factions, I will switch to custom and never look back.

I don't know a single 4x (proper) AI that is good at release, or even 6-12 month after release. Not a single one. The best AI opponenets that I've played come from Stardock, and even those take many years to get to the shape they are at. Years and years of development. Very few studios do that. Firaxis doesn't (know the first thing about making a mediocre AI). Paradox won't pay for further development (look at what happened with SotS2). I'm not sure about the EU/CK/etc games (haven't played them enough yet), but I suspect that once you figure out the AI, it's a pushover.

Can you give me an example of a good AI and why you find it to be good?

Good AI is incredibly hard to come by in strategy games, especially 4X. I find that to be especially the case in Endless Legends' case because of how unique all the factions play like. I don't think the AI is smart enough to utilize all their unique mechanics properly, but I also find that the AI suffers from not being aggressive enough militarily. It is incapable of upgrading its own units and armies.

Since I think EL has some of the weakest AI ever I'd say that any game has better AI as an example, but for the sake of this dialogue I'll start off by saying that Endless Space is a lot better from what I've played. It knows how to be militarily aggressive and I like that.

CK2 has competent AI (I'd imagine that EU4 is the same, haven't played it enough yet to give an opinion on it), although it does get help from the randomness of the games. There really isn't a winning formula to figuring out how to exploit the AI and win the game, however. There are so many things that can go in your favor or against you that you are constantly adapting. Also the games are asymmetrical due to the different sizes of the countries so there's that as well.

Dominions 3, 4 and Conquest of Elysium 3 (made by the same dev) are also examples of good AI. These games have deep and complex gameplay features that the AI knows how to utilize.

[Nasarog]

I've played 2x of ES than EL at the moment, but I know what you mean. I know that the EL AI will improve because I am talking to some of the Modders there, and I know they are doing interesting things. Since they are Amplitude VIP's, they share their findings with the Amplitude dev's. We'll see how their mods affect the game in general.

I would like to extend an invite to you to join our group eXplorminate. We have an interesting AI discussion going on over there, and I think you would be a great addition to it.

I never played Dominions or COnquest, but I am sure someone there has.