What happened to controller support??!

[Pumathang]

I don't typically buy games unless they have at least partial controller support. I was excited enough for this one I actually had it on my calendar. Kept checking back to see if it was released yet. Finally it's available... but there's no controller support?!

I know I didn't overlook something this big. Here's the proof--snapshot by the Waybackmachine YESTERDAY: https://web.archive.org/web/20230824060212/https://store.steampowered.com/app/2080690/Sunkenland/

So disappointed... guess I won't be buying on release day now. I hate screwing around with mapping and having to remember what I mapped everything to. "Partial" controller support is usually tolerable for most games, but the fact that it was purposefully removed gives me a bad feeling.

I've heard ALL the arguments. Yes, it's hard to implement controller support after the fact if you didn't design the game to support it. Yes, it's tricky to figure out how to map everything in a controller-friendly setup. But lots of games with some fairly complicated UI and game mechanics have found ways to do it---some less gracefully than others, but if the game is fun, people will play it anyway.

I'm definitely not writing off the game because it looks great, but for today I guess I'm going with the OTHER game I've had my eye on... the full-priced $60 game I was going to wait for a sale to buy. Yes, I'm willing to spend a lot more money on a different game for this singular reason. Developers, take note---you want people to buy your game, plan to implement controller support from the very beginning, because there are so many sales hinging on it.

[nicholas.o.wilson]

Publicado originalmente por ぬばたま:

To begin with, survival craft games are basically not suitable for playing with a consumer controller because of the large number of keys used.
It's a terrible thing to ask a game to provide full support for a game that is only released on the PC, even though it doesn't have enough keys to do so.

Even if the game is not in this genre, most games that are optimized for the PC don't have enough keys for a controller.

Green Hell, Survival Fountain of Youth, Stranded, and I'm sure countless more games say Hi.

[きゅるってる！]

Publicado originalmente por nicholas.o.wilson:

Publicado originalmente por ぬばたま:

To begin with, survival craft games are basically not suitable for playing with a consumer controller because of the large number of keys used.
It's a terrible thing to ask a game to provide full support for a game that is only released on the PC, even though it doesn't have enough keys to do so.

Even if the game is not in this genre, most games that are optimized for the PC don't have enough keys for a controller.

Green Hell, Survival Fountain of Youth, Stranded, and I'm sure countless more games say Hi.

You mean while other games are supported?
Green Hell certainly supported the controls...but I'm talking about whether or not controller operation is suitable.

This genre is not intuitive to play with a controller, so you have to get yourself used to it or create an environment where the controls are not painful. That's more constructive.

[Pumathang]

Publicado originalmente por ぬばたま:

To begin with, survival craft games are basically not suitable for playing with a consumer controller because of the large number of keys used.
It's a terrible thing to ask a game to provide full support for a game that is only released on the PC, even though it doesn't have enough keys to do so.

Even if the game is not in this genre, most games that are optimized for the PC don't have enough keys for a controller.

Actually, most games with controllers don't map keys at a 1:1 ratio. You don't need a dedicated "reload" button if you don't have a ranged weapon equipped. Some buttons might have a regular press vs holding to interact in two different ways. Instead of hotkeys you might hold a button to select from a wheel menu to change modes or equipment. (Currently the PS4 controller uses a single button to cycle one-way through the hotkeys, which is weird and inefficient.)

Once you've played a few games that do a really good job mapping buttons, it's easier to see what might work for similar games. Unfortunately, you can't really do this yourself with Steam's big picture mode, because it has no way to map buttons based on game-specific contexts -- that's why it works best when the developer implements the control scheme in-game. Yes, the developer might have to add some controller-specific interface to make a selection if you hold down a button, but... that's fairly simple compared to everything else that goes into making a video game. It's also why they're charging money for this game rather than giving it to us for free.

If they added a couple dollars onto that price tag to cover basic QoL stuff (let's say controller support AND keybinding, since that will make some KB+mouse players pretty happy, too), I don't think many people would complain---it's already a pretty good deal.

[Pumathang]

Publicado originalmente por nicholas.o.wilson:

Publicado originalmente por ぬばたま:

To begin with, survival craft games are basically not suitable for playing with a consumer controller because of the large number of keys used.
It's a terrible thing to ask a game to provide full support for a game that is only released on the PC, even though it doesn't have enough keys to do so.

Even if the game is not in this genre, most games that are optimized for the PC don't have enough keys for a controller.

Green Hell, Survival Fountain of Youth, Stranded, and I'm sure countless more games say Hi.

Conan Exiles, Grounded, Valheim, Subnautica... and 7 Days to Die is pretty awkward but usable :)

[Pumathang]

Publicado originalmente por ぬばたま:

Publicado originalmente por nicholas.o.wilson:

Green Hell, Survival Fountain of Youth, Stranded, and I'm sure countless more games say Hi.

You mean while other games are supported?
Green Hell certainly supported the controls...but I'm talking about whether or not controller operation is suitable.

This genre is not intuitive to play with a controller, so you have to get yourself used to it or create an environment where the controls are not painful. That's more constructive.

If you actually use a controller and play a few of these games, then yeah, they're pretty intuitive. Certainly no less intuitive than when games randomly choose to use a different keyboard key than most similar games use for "jump" or "menu" or "use/interact" or whatever. The only real issue I run into is precision with aiming or placing structures neatly. As long as they don't disable the mouse entirely while a controller is plugged in, I don't mind using it periodically.

[mle_ii]

Nonsense. I play plenty of survival games with a controller, it's not difficult to do nor rocket science here.

And here's another +1 for someone waiting on controller support. It seems you have some already, and if you're using the newer input system in Unity it's not too difficult to add. If I can do it I'm very sure these devs can do it. LOL I helped the Valheim team with their controller support several times. Even helped fix issues that keyboard/mouse users were hitting there.

And there is a good chunk of folks who use a controller to play on steam. According to an article from PC gamer back in 2021 it's 48 million players or about 10% daily. Though some genres have a larger number than others and it's likely a larger user base now as it had doubled the last 2 years when that article was published.

Play what device you want, but the last thing I want to do is sit at my computer to play games when I've been sitting at one all day for work. I play games with mouse/keyboard if it makes sense, but this game doesn't have nearly enough of a complex UI that couldn't be supported with a controller.

[きゅるってる！]

Publicado originalmente por Pumathang:

Publicado originalmente por ぬばたま:

You mean while other games are supported?
Green Hell certainly supported the controls...but I'm talking about whether or not controller operation is suitable.

This genre is not intuitive to play with a controller, so you have to get yourself used to it or create an environment where the controls are not painful. That's more constructive.

If you actually use a controller and play a few of these games, then yeah, they're pretty intuitive. Certainly no less intuitive than when games randomly choose to use a different keyboard key than most similar games use for "jump" or "menu" or "use/interact" or whatever. The only real issue I run into is precision with aiming or placing structures neatly. As long as they don't disable the mouse entirely while a controller is plugged in, I don't mind using it periodically.

I've never ruled out having full support for controllers or providing key bind settings.
The game still has many other issues that need to be fixed, and that will take time, just like the PvP implementation.
So rather than wait for controller support, it would be faster to change myself.
Some users seem to think that controller support is easier than any other thing, but they are wrong.

[Pumathang]

Publicado originalmente por mle_ii:

LOL I helped the Valheim team with their controller support several times. Even helped fix issues that keyboard/mouse users were hitting there.

Wait, people play Valheim without a controller? I confess to using the mouse to aim when I shoot those birds, but that's it, I swear!

Seriously, though, that's one game I don't think I physically could play without a controller, even if I wanted to. Thanks for this! XD

[Mad]

Publicado originalmente por shmodzilla:

Publicado originalmente por Pumathang:

Damn, I'm pretty sure it's my kind of game, too... I'll switch to using the mouse for building on a lot of games with full controller support just to get that precision, but if the basic run, attack, etc. are easy enough to use with controller, that might be fine.

It's usually the interfaces that kill me, though. I have yet to find a game where a joystick actually "works" as a mouse in an in-game UI, even with controller support implemented. That means I have to switch to the mouse, and if I'm opening menus all the time... yeah, that gets annoying if there are no hotkeys to quickly switch between equipped items.

But... if the game itself is fun enough... I can be convinced...

the ps4 trackpad works as the mouse but i have to turn it off because my palm touches it and moves all over. Still trying to get a few things figured out but pretty much every game theres just a few things that i can never get right so i have to keep the kb/mouse close. Sons of the forest i need the kb close to swtch hotkeyed weapons. It sucks but hey i get to game and after being injured i thought that part of my life was over so im just happy with what i can get! Good luck to you! I just keep restarting until i get it right lol. But i think its probably as good as i can get it unless the ingame options finaly get full remap ability .

Oh and yes, basic run, aim shoot ect are no problem.

If you use steam big picture, you can map the d pad to be #1,2,3,4. I think I posted my controller set up and it added a lot.

[Mad]

Publicado originalmente por Alitza:

Or just use a keyboard like a normal human being? you're on steam not the playstation store

This is the definition of a "Basic"

[AvengedxAngel]

i've been using the Xbox controller since day one. It is partial but it works.

[Mad]

Publicado originalmente por Alitza:

Or just use a keyboard like a normal human being? you're on steam not the playstation store

A normal person doesn't believe everyone needs to be like them. they are inclusive. and steam runs controller support. You're in 2023 not 1991 anymore Alitza

[davidanttila1980]

Okay i'm coining in here with three facts.
#1 Some games can use controller support or handle it.
But here is the catch some games with far to many commands that you need easy access to can not support it.
Second catch with controller support is game engine issues. Some Game engines do easily support it and other do not.
#2 This game is a month old!
Meaning sometimes a patch may or may not break a feature and have to be fixed in a future update.
#3 Dedicated support is a fact of life on PC!
Some games support Keyboard and mouse while others support Game Pads or just one or the other. I got games in my library tagged Game Pad required and one tagged limited Game Pad support and Keyboard and mouse required.

If you have issues with a keyboard and mouse use on the computer. Keep in mind you had to use them to get here and type here.
Consider looking into two options adjust the position of your Keyboard and mouse or replacements for both to make it easier.

Now lets have a moment of silence for dedicated Windows Controllers you could map your keyboard and mouse buttons to it with an incredible amount of buttons on them to cover any and every game you could imagine.

[Illuminia]

Publicado originalmente por davidanttila1980:

Now lets have a moment of silence for dedicated Windows Controllers you could map your keyboard and mouse buttons to it with an incredible amount of buttons on them to cover any and every game you could imagine.

FYI - You can do this for any Steam game - even if a game doesn't support controllers at all.
So far, I've only found the option in Big Picture mode - and you have to set it for each individual game..... But you can basically set each button on a controller to mimic a Keyboard button.
"D-Pad Left = Keyboard A, D-Pad Up = Keyboard W".... "Y Button = Keyboard 1", "Y Button + LB1 = Keyboard 2, "B Button = Keyboard Spacebar" etc ....

It takes some knowledge of what keyboard inputs the game expects, and coming up with a way to map the input to controller that makes sense, but you can do it.
And since you can combine controller buttons together to a different output, that gives you more flexibility than only 14 buttons on a controller. (~4 shoulder + 4 face + 1 start +1 select +4 d-pad )

You can even map a Joystick to a virtual Mouse cursor....

.... you may need to write your own cheat-sheet to remember what does what though. :)


Native gamepad support is far better, to be sure ......

[Mad]

Publicado originalmente por davidanttila1980:

Okay i'm coining in here with three facts.
#1 Some games can use controller support or handle it.
But here is the catch some games with far to many commands that you need easy access to can not support it.
Second catch with controller support is game engine issues. Some Game engines do easily support it and other do not.
#2 This game is a month old!
Meaning sometimes a patch may or may not break a feature and have to be fixed in a future update.
#3 Dedicated support is a fact of life on PC!
Some games support Keyboard and mouse while others support Game Pads or just one or the other. I got games in my library tagged Game Pad required and one tagged limited Game Pad support and Keyboard and mouse required.

If you have issues with a keyboard and mouse use on the computer. Keep in mind you had to use them to get here and type here.
Consider looking into two options adjust the position of your Keyboard and mouse or replacements for both to make it easier.

Now lets have a moment of silence for dedicated Windows Controllers you could map your keyboard and mouse buttons to it with an incredible amount of buttons on them to cover any and every game you could imagine.

There already is controller support
Nope, used my phone to get here and type here.
And if you knew anything about controllers, you'd know that the joystick acts as a mouse,
Controllers have as many button combinations as a kbm so inputs aren't an issue.
Example: PS5 controller: has 18 buttons which can have 3 inputs each. Triangle: tap = F, double tap = L, long press = Q. So that's 54 key bindings. The game has 32. That's 22 extra keybindings that we don't even need.
So there's no excuses you have left