Why are the girls you save somewhat sexualized?

[I'm a Cop, you Idiot]

I thought this was a game for kids....

[Edit] Im kinda tired of people flipping out thinking im angry and protective over what kids will see, im really not that was just a throwaway line I didnt put any thought into.

[Serann]

daicon eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't know about you, but I thought the nymphs fit in with the artstyle just fine. I don't remember anyone complaining that Hello Nurse in Animaniacs didn't fit the art style of the other characters.

Probably because there already were plenty of humans in Animaniacs and even with that, the nurse's sexualization served a purpose in the story (or what you can call a story in Animaniacs)

In Rayman, they just look like that to pander to a premature male audience, which I find rather annoying.

[daicon]

Melfice eredeti hozzászólása:

daicon eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't know about you, but I thought the nymphs fit in with the artstyle just fine. I don't remember anyone complaining that Hello Nurse in Animaniacs didn't fit the art style of the other characters.

Probably because there already were plenty of humans in Animaniacs and even with that, the nurse's sexualization served a purpose in the story (or what you can call a story in Animaniacs)

In Rayman, they just look like that to pander to a premature male audience, which I find rather annoying.

The toons in Animaniacs were the minority within the world of the show. In Rayman it's sort of the opposite. Both are creatively legitimate. This whole "doesn't fit the art style" argument is just bunk.

Is it a sin to pander to someone in such a harmless way? Like is it dangerous for something like that to happen? When people get upset about a vaguely "sexy" characature, or say such things shouldn't exist, I just see them as the kind of people who think the world revolves around them and should adhere to their personal morals.

[Serann]

Look at it this way:
Imagine you are playing a videogame and there is a level which you think is just terrible.
Then you tell others that you thought that level was terrible and that you didn't like it, after which they say:
"Well, you just think the world revolves around you, don't you? That level design wasn't a sin."

No, we don't think the world revolves around us, but we are free to criticise any media that was designed to appeal to us. It's not a sin, but that doesn't put it above criticism.

[daicon]

Yes, but the grounds on which you're criticizing it are based off you say it panders to a demographic that isn't you, which is why I'd say something about thinking the world revolves around us or our morals.

That's atleast what I get out of this: "this is too sexy your young people", "The artstyle clashes" and now "it's pandering to a demographic".

[Aergistal]

The funny but expected thing is that this thread fails miserably to notice other "worse" innuendos that actually do exist in the game :)

Kids won't probably register and/or care at all. And if they do, you could explain them a part of mythology the best you can, openly, and in an appropiate way for their age. They'll thank you later when they turn out as non-stressed adults.

[Serann]

daicon eredeti hozzászólása:

Yes, but the grounds on which you're criticizing it are based off you say it panders to a demographic that isn't you, which is why I'd say something about thinking the world revolves around us or our morals.

That's atleast what I get out of this: "this is too sexy your young people", "The artstyle clashes" and now "it's pandering to a demographic".

Well, that's just the thing though: that I am not the target audience doesn't mean I have to ignore it. Like, imagine if there was a scene which truly appauled you and it was meant for nazis or something like that. Would you just go: "Oh, ok then." and ignore it?
Pandering is especially annoying BECAUSE it doesn't work for everyone. People can't just filter what they take in. If you take the cheap route, you can expect people to get annoyed at that.

And yes, all of those three points are valid and can be true at the same time, though I disagree with the first one.

[Aergistal]

Melfice eredeti hozzászólása:

Well, that's just the thing though: that I am not the target audience doesn't mean I have to ignore it.

If you take things out of context you can prove anything.
The scenes you mentioned woud be very OK if featured in a historical movie for eg.
And news: people DO filter what they take in. At least those who use their heads a bit. The world would be a very creepy place otherwise.

[Serann]

No, people filter how they take in things, not what. You can't unsee what you have seen, you only process it differently.

And when I play Rayman, I don't think that it's out of context to expect stylistic consistency and not being treated like a horny 13-year-old, given how the rayman fanbase is roughly in their late 20s by now.

And even if an elemented suited into the tone of a game, that doesn't mean that you have to "like it or f**k off". If a game made by and for assh.oles featured killing foreigners, because of their skin, I would still hate it, even if it does suit the game's tone.

[Stereocast]

Melfice eredeti hozzászólása:

Like, imagine if there was a scene which truly appauled you and it was meant for nazis or something like that.

He brought up nazis guys, Godwin's law, thread's over, everybody go home.

[I'm a Cop, you Idiot]

Stereocast eredeti hozzászólása:

Melfice eredeti hozzászólása:

Like, imagine if there was a scene which truly appauled you and it was meant for nazis or something like that.

He brought up nazis guys, Godwin's law, thread's over, everybody go home.

Its a dumb thing that can be said about most things. Need an analogy but want to make it extreme and ridiculous? Who were the most extreme and ridiculous? Nazis. Its percect

[Aergistal]

^ lol Stereocast

Melfice eredeti hozzászólása:

No, people filter how they take in things, not what. You can't unsee what you have seen, you only process it differently.

And when I play Rayman, I don't think that it's out of context to expect stylistic consistency and not being treated like a horny 13-year-old, given how the rayman fanbase is roughly in their late 20s by now.

And even if an elemented suited into the tone of a game, that doesn't mean that you have to "like it or f**k off". If a game made by and for assh.oles featured killing foreigners, because of their skin, I would still hate it, even if it does suit the game's tone.

Maybe we're thinking different filters :) I was thinking of filters as in photographic filters, not like something that blocks something else completely (or in your words processing vs taking for granted as absolute truth).

I hope you're not using distortion filters in this discussion though.

The game IS visually consistent. The portrayal of nymphs IS conistent with their mythological image and chosen role - nymphs. The Origins game is NOT consistent compared with the original.

But there are changes in more characters, not just the girls, if you pay attention to the details (eg. the Livingstone creature is not made of bubbles anymore and looks like a malnourished person).

What you did was filter the rest and focus on a single part. Btw, malnourished people featuring moustaches are not necessarily evil :))

I wouldn't say "like it or f off", just don't ignore the larger picture.

[Serann]

But it does not fit the larger picture. Yes, they would suit the modern fantasy portrayel of nymphs, but why would that be important? There is nothing else in the game, that is trying to implement greek mythology or generic fantasy elements.

And do you really doubt, that they aren't just there as a cheap way to grab horny teenagers' attention? Yeah, it's cartoons, but the brain recognizes it anyway and I seriously doubt they weren't aware of it.
After all, why not also put in some musclebound guys in thongs then, as well? Would be consistent with the apparent "artstyle".

(And what do the hammer-gun guys have to do with this?)

[Aergistal]

Melfice eredeti hozzászólása:

But it does not fit the larger picture. Yes, they would suit the modern fantasy portrayel of nymphs, but why would that be important? There is nothing else in the game, that is trying to implement greek mythology or generic fantasy elements.

It's not about modern fantasy. Rayman's origins include (among many things) celtic influences and the game is centered around nature (as stated by the developer). Celts were animists, but faceless nature spirits don't work as story characters that well. Nymphs are by excellence spirits of nature and also have a well established image so that's how they probably came to be included.

I doubt they did that to grab teenager's attention. Their potrayal is rather caricatural, and that is also true for the rest of the game art, and they have a reason to be in game (see previous paragraph). The teenagers can see better stuff on MTV. I'm sure Ancel would have included muscle guys if he had a good reason to. I think Legends has something like that, it feels more viking oriented, but I can't vouch as I didn't play it yet.

Also remember that the designer is the guy who created Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, one of the few strong game heroines that stand out while also being tastefully potrayed. And he designed her with that goal in mind. Caricature can also be used as a tool for satire if you think about it.

[Serann]

"Boss, how big should we make their breasts and butts?"
"Well, they ARE spirits of nature, based on celtic mythology, so make them as big as you can, with tiny waists."

Really, how does that have anything to do with their sexualized depiction?

Honestly, they probably didn't even put that much thought into it.
"Hey, the woman from Rayman 1 was called a nymph."
"Dude, lets give her huge tits!"
"Yeah man!"

Not sure which would bother me more, if it was pandering or just silly.

[I'm a Cop, you Idiot]

Melfice eredeti hozzászólása:

"Boss, how big should we make their breasts and butts?"
"Well, they ARE spirits of nature, based on celtic mythology, so make them as big as you can, with tiny waists."

Really, how does that have anything to do with their sexualized depiction?

Honestly, they probably didn't even put that much thought into it.
"Hey, the woman from Rayman 1 was called a nymph."
"Dude, lets give her huge tits!"
"Yeah man!"

Not sure which would bother me more, if it was pandering or just silly.

Thats my problem with big budget games that do this. ESPECIALLY ones that are all realistic and or gritty. Theyre made by adults, not just a few adults, A LOT of adults, its not just a few horny guys saying "lets dress this woman like sex a doll because its sooo hot" its many doing that continuously throughout the entire games development which usually spans years or at least one year. It is disgusting that this many grown ups consistently have this thought process and think its cool. If games were made by twelve year olds thats one thing but you would expect adults to have a basic level of maturity.