Do we know what SBMM means?

[Snobby Hobo]

How is it implemented? I'm definitely feeling more competence from hostile teams, but my teammates are still GOD AWFUL. Last few games especially I'm tripling their stats on average. Outliers apply of course, but it's pretty much just like playing pugs.

In Dota they had the big issue that someone on a "local winstreak" (winstreak in their bracket) would get matched with complete trash teammates consistently as they would have a high "skill" modifier.

What does "skill based matchmaking" mean in THE FINALS?

[Oro]

My teammates are very, very frequently duos that are freaks, or that appear to have their HUDs disabled and therefore never know where the objectives are or where damage is coming from.

Seems a safe bet that they've got Overwatch-style win control SBMM.

[Freely]

Assuming SBMM functions the same as most games with SBMM? You may simply be expected to carry those randoms, or the system has preemptively selected you for a loss, or a losing streak. SBMM is all about engagement, not fair matches. There's a reason why those that fall exceedingly below the average skill bracket will often never breach out of that bracket - They want them to spend money, and why would you spend money on something you consistently get destroyed in?

Also just depends on how the MMR works for The Finals. Does the MM take into account K/D/A? Win percentage? Cashout total? How often you do a specific action, how often you communicate, how often do you contribute to team fights. What is the overall time spent with your team? How often do you run solo? Are you consistently engaging fights without your team, with your team?

As for the engagement? Win too much? Less fulfilment. Lose too much? Increased frustration. Trying to balance both? More likely to keep playing. SBMM also tends to differentiate from game to game, as you obviously know. Fortnite? Losing streak? The game will practically hand you an easy win, but soon as you win? Sweatfest, and then repeat the process. CoD will often match you with/against those that buy bundles, along with your typical SBMM affair.

Best solution to this would be to play with people you know.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by Oro:

My teammates are very, very frequently duos that are freaks, or that appear to have their HUDs disabled and therefore never know where the objectives are or where damage is coming from.

Seems a safe bet that they've got Overwatch-style win control SBMM.

I'm unfamiliar with OW's system (I really never liked the game that much), but it sounds similar to what I described with Dota then.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by Freely:

Assuming SBMM functions the same as most games with SBMM? You may simply be expected to carry those randoms, or the system has preemptively selected you for a loss, or a losing streak. SBMM is all about engagement, not fair matches. There's a reason why those that fall exceedingly below the average skill bracket will often never breach out of that bracket - They want them to spend money, and why would you spend money on something you consistently get destroyed in?

Also just depends on how the MMR works for The Finals. Does the MM take into account K/D/A? Win percentage? Cashout total? How often you do a specific action, how often you communicate, how often do you contribute to team fights. What is the overall time spent with your team? How often do you run solo? Are you consistently engaging fights without your team, with your team?

As for the engagement? Win too much? Less fulfilment. Lose too much? Increased frustration. Trying to balance both? More likely to keep playing. SBMM also tends to differentiate from game to game, as you obviously know. Fortnite? Losing streak? The game will practically hand you an easy win, but soon as you win? Sweatfest, and then repeat the process. CoD will often match you with/against those that buy bundles, along with your typical SBMM affair.

Best solution to this would be to play with people you know.

The conclusion is obviously right. I already accepted these games cannot be played competitively. Back in the day I was actually the 0.1% of Dota 2 players for soloqueue mmr - and looking back at it now it was absolutely insane how much I had to play to reach that point. I think I spent like 7000-8000 hours over the course of 6 years during highschool. The pug matchmaker would just try to push you back at every opportunity.

That being said it's a skill you're developing; if you don't feel payoff (i.e. winning more, a higher rank, whatever have you) I can't see it being particularly engaging. Why do I "deserve" bad teammates for playing well? I get that macro wise it's probably the best solution, but I can't agree that that's the best way to have people stick around.

[Showguyver]

more sweat games on my side because of "sbmm" = uninstall

[Freely]

The only solution would be server browser. You simply cannot code/program a system which functions superior to that of a real person, with admin rights, and moderators. This will, and always will be the only solution.

As for the issue of trying to program a system which keeps players engaged? It's all to do with money. Wallet warriors are often times nowhere near the competitive level of those which refuse to spend money. This is why sweats in Fortnite always load in with those Christmas skins, or anything which looks inherently stupid, obtainable for free. Getting destroyed by something that looks stupid is hilarious to sweats.

You want to make sure the majority of players, which fall into the average/below average bracket of any competitive shooter, are engaged enough to swipe the CC - However, we do see far more skilled players over the last couple of years when compared to previous competitive shooters, as well.

All in all? Engage those which are far more likely to piss away money, and if providing a worse experience for those which are competent enough to keep above average? That loss is simply too little for anyone to care.

Again, other than providing a server browser? Grouping up with friends that play within similar skill level as you is just about the only thing you can do. That, or quit the game.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by Freely:

The only solution would be server browser. You simply cannot code/program a system which functions superior to that of a real person, with admin rights, and moderators. This will, and always will be the only solution.

As for the issue of trying to program a system which keeps players engaged? It's all to do with money. Wallet warriors are often times nowhere near the competitive level of those which refuse to spend money. This is why sweats in Fortnite always load in with those Christmas skins, or anything which looks inherently stupid, obtainable for free. Getting destroyed by something that looks stupid is hilarious to sweats.

You want to make sure the majority of players, which fall into the average/below average bracket of any competitive shooter, are engaged enough to swipe the CC - However, we do see far more skilled players over the last couple of years when compared to previous competitive shooters, as well.

All in all? Engage those which are far more likely to piss away money, and if providing a worse experience for those which are competent enough to keep above average? That loss is simply too little for anyone to care.

Again, other than providing a server browser? Grouping up with friends that play within similar skill level as you is just about the only thing you can do. That, or quit the game.

Honestly, you're probably just right. It's another one of those things you unfortunately just need to accept. It's quite remarkable how unbelievably wrong classic economics are: people aren't rational, they aren't smart - they are completely led by short-term impulses (hell, I even find myself doing that too much still nowadays).

In that case I suppose I'm more venting than anything else. It feels really bad to get "rewarded" with ♥♥♥♥ teammates because you played well. But it is what it is: the most sustainable model from a monetary perspective.

[Chubzdoomer]

Originally posted by Showguyver:

more sweat games on my side because of "sbmm" = uninstall

As a solo player this is what led to me uninstalling a couple days ago. The matchmaking was initially tolerable, but I guess I was playing "too well" and so it started throwing me in matches against sweaty premade teams that were virtually untouchable. After 10+ unwinnable matches in a row, I decided to call it quits until the situation is either rectified or a new game mode arrives that actually treats solo players fairly.

[Officer K]

worse teammates is what happens when you implement stricter sbmm. Clown decision from the devs. Cant have fun in video games...THERE IS A RANKED MODE....WHY HAVE STRICTER SBMM

[DJ Catmom]

Same deal here. I didn't even have a winning streak or anything, but today I've been matched exclusively against teams I can smell from across the world. I can't complain about my teammates either, we were all equally trash compared to two other teams. That's after they allegedly made SBMM more "fair". I barely managed to squeeze win of the day.

[Freely]

Originally posted by Officer K:

worse teammates is what happens when you implement stricter sbmm. Clown decision from the devs. Cant have fun in video games...THERE IS A RANKED MODE....WHY HAVE STRICTER SBMM

Likely due to Ranked Modes in games never offering anything substantial for the effort to sweat your balls off. Why endure swampass in Ranked when you obtain nothing for playing Ranked? May as well abuse the SBMM in Casual, manipulate algorithms, get dropped into easy matches - Throw consistently - Dropped into easy matches, again.

Also, why provide anything substantial, for free, when the goal is to entice consistent purchases of bundles/skins/cosmetics.

Ranked is often your Casual mode, anyways. Functions this way for Apex, especially for Apex.