About Lunge Attack...

[Kaibah]

Does anyone have a video or something showing what it looks like? I'm not sure if I'm actually doing the move because the ingame manual shows a downward looking slash, but I seem to be doing an upward slash that hits an enemy 3 times. Also, I can only seem to pull that off when tapping a direction button and the attack key shortly after, never from stopping after running or dashing.

[Korzic]

Yep, that sounds like the one, but seems as though there's two animation variants of it, strangely enough. And I'm not sure of the exact mechanics behind the attack, but in my experience, you need to do it from a stationary position.

[Berahlen]

For what it's worth, I don't think I ever used the lunge on purpose, even in an Inferno run. It's almost never worth it even when you can do it reliably.

[Kaibah]

Originally posted by Korzic:

Yep, that sounds like the one, but seems as though there's two animation variants of it, strangely enough. And I'm not sure of the exact mechanics behind the attack, but in my experience, you need to do it from a stationary position.

Really? So, you've done both when fighting? The whole lunge attack thing has been really bugging me for ages and I can only seem to pull off the one I mentioned in my first post. I'm also kinda suprised since it seems not much talk has been done about the move in general either.

Originally posted by Waypoint:

For what it's worth, I don't think I ever used the lunge on purpose, even in an Inferno run. It's almost never worth it even when you can do it reliably.

Well, I like to use as many fighting moves as I can get in games. Helps spice things up and add a little variety. It'd certainly be cool to me if there is two animations like Korzic said. Didn't think the move was too bad though since you can do decent damage fast, have a longer combo attack and hit multiple enemies 3 times in a single slash.

[Berahlen]

Higher difficulties are less about damage output and more about preventing counterattacks. When you need to string an enemy into a long combo to keep him hitstunned, you're usually better off boosting or using whirlwind. Hell, even an uncharged fireball links your regular combos together just fine, and it's a lot more reliable than the lunge (and when almost any enemy in the game can kill you in 3-4 hits, reliability is paramount).

Later, larger enemies like the hammer guys in the Abandoned Mine are immune to hitstun in the first place and your focus migrates to pure evasion; the awkward lunge animation leaves you lethally open.

Against most bosses, your opening is either very short, or very long. In both cases, you have better ways of laying down damage, and they usually involve boost, whirlwind, or earth shield.

[Korzic]

Originally posted by Kaibah:

Really? So, you've done both when fighting? The whole lunge attack thing has been really bugging me for ages and I can only seem to pull off the one I mentioned in my first post. I'm also kinda suprised since it seems not much talk has been done about the move in general either.

Like Waypoint, I almost never use the move in Felghana (in Origin, the move also serves to temporarily lower an enemy's DEF slightly, but I don't think that's the case for this game). The two animations thing I observed just messing around with it again briefly, but I'm not sure what causes it; I wasn't doing anything different while performing it, I don't think.

[Berahlen]

In Origin, the DEF debuff is so little and so short that it barely pays off if you use it perfectly on an opening that's exactly as long as you need it to be. The time you lost watching the lunge animation and its middling damage could have just been spent on another combo, and if you use it on regular enemies you're likely to get smashed because it leaves you open afterward.

I've seen it used in several boss speedkills, mostly for Hugo since his comes out a bit faster and he tends to do less damage per shot anyway. The skill requirement for using it and actually coming out ahead is pretty high -- higher than a full Nightmare run.

IIRC Toal has to use his lunge a couple times for traversal because his is a Mega Man slide. It makes it completely useless for combat though because it takes you so far you're not hitting stuff anymore, and you have better ways of escaping from things (which you pick up within five minutes of starting the game).

[Kaibah]

Well, I found out how to get the Lunge Attack animation like in the manual. You just gotta activate Boost and then Lunge Attack changes into a downward slash attack (end part seems to match the picture). It's not a seperate attack at all and I can't believe I didn't even notice until now.

Originally posted by Waypoint:

Higher difficulties are less about damage output and more about preventing counterattacks. When you need to string an enemy into a long combo to keep him hitstunned, you're usually better off boosting or using whirlwind. Hell, even an uncharged fireball links your regular combos together just fine, and it's a lot more reliable than the lunge (and when almost any enemy in the game can kill you in 3-4 hits, reliability is paramount).

Later, larger enemies like the hammer guys in the Abandoned Mine are immune to hitstun in the first place and your focus migrates to pure evasion; the awkward lunge animation leaves you lethally open.

Against most bosses, your opening is either very short, or very long. In both cases, you have better ways of laying down damage, and they usually involve boost, whirlwind, or earth shield.

Well I'm playing Nightmare as my first playthrough at the moment, and I'm not saying it's the ulimate attack for all enemies or anything; just think it still has some use depending on the situation. For example, a boss I fought the other day called Istersiva. I'd hit the first form with fireballs as much as I could, but when it spat out those crystal monsters, I'd get in close to melee the boss and use Lunge Attack to help cut down the enemies. If the boss attacked, I'd use the whirlwind move to retreat back.

Yeah, I wouldn't use Lunge Attack on stuff like the hammer enemies you mentioned (I just fireballed most of those lol), but like I said, it depends on the enemy.

Originally posted by Korzic:

Like Waypoint, I almost never use the move in Felghana (in Origin, the move also serves to temporarily lower an enemy's DEF slightly, but I don't think that's the case for this game). The two animations thing I observed just messing around with it again briefly, but I'm not sure what causes it; I wasn't doing anything different while performing it, I don't think.

Originally posted by Waypoint:

In Origin, the DEF debuff is so little and so short that it barely pays off if you use it perfectly on an opening that's exactly as long as you need it to be. The time you lost watching the lunge animation and its middling damage could have just been spent on another combo, and if you use it on regular enemies you're likely to get smashed because it leaves you open afterward.

I've seen it used in several boss speedkills, mostly for Hugo since his comes out a bit faster and he tends to do less damage per shot anyway. The skill requirement for using it and actually coming out ahead is pretty high -- higher than a full Nightmare run.

IIRC Toal has to use his lunge a couple times for traversal because his is a Mega Man slide. It makes it completely useless for combat though because it takes you so far you're not hitting stuff anymore, and you have better ways of escaping from things (which you pick up within five minutes of starting the game).

Still gotta play Origin myself someday, but yeah, least now we know how to do second animation in Felghana...

[Berahlen]

Looking back on my Inferno run, I can't think of a single thing the lunge would have done that boost, whirlwind, or earth shield wouldn't have done better and more safely. Its main problem is just that it roots you in place for so darn long.

Like, Istersiva? The main trick is just ending the first phase as quickly as possible because it's so prone to randomly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you over. Fireballs run out of steam too quickly as a main damage source, because even when it does respectable damage you spend way too much time waiting for your bar to refill -- though there are exceptions, you usually use it to score a few free hits on a boss when they decide to play keep-away.

But if you run up and whirlwind as he starts vomiting crystals, the crystals die immediately (which is critical when the laser can fire literally the moment they spawn and you have as little as a half second to make sure its target dies), you put a good couple hundred damage on the tentacle in the process, you're able to jump a counterattack or a laser during the animation, and any damage you do take is halved (any spell halves incoming damage during its animation).

[Kaibah]

Well, I'm up to Valestein Castle at the moment (those Xenovaiger are annoying), but maybe I'll post some videos after I beat the game to show some times I used it. Still think the move has some use, but yeah, stuff like a charged whirlwind can be pretty overpowered for various things.

As for Istersiva, sure, you've gotta end it quick; I'm not saying just stand there using Fireball and waiting for the bar to recharge! Just saying that it can be good damage at the right times. I found using Whirlwind risky (especially a charged one) cause sometimes the boss might spit and then quickly attack and you're stuck spinning so you eat the damage. But I might not have done the best tactics on that anyway since I mostly had trouble with the second form.