The game wasted the duality of Characters

[Ruperto]

They could have done like in Yakuza 0 that every 2 chapters the game changed between Ichiban and Kiryu, with the latter having the brawler gameplay and when changing to Ichiban the RPG returned.

Since I find that they left Kiryu in a bad light that in the parts where we are with Kiryu without Ichiban in the group he still has the RPG combat since it gives the impression that Kiryu also sees the world as an RPG game like Ichiban and knowing the personality of Kiryu would not imagine anything in the fights

[Legendary Mr. Tiddles]

Yeah, no. Don't do a 180 on the gameplay type halfway through.

[Ruperto]

Originally posted by Legendary Mr. Tiddles:

Yeah, no. Don't do a 180 on the gameplay type halfway through.

But it didn't cost them anything to do that, I mean for the Kiryu chapters they would have copied and pasted the gameplay they had in Gaiden for the battles

[Legendary Mr. Tiddles]

Originally posted by Gonzalin:

Originally posted by Legendary Mr. Tiddles:

Yeah, no. Don't do a 180 on the gameplay type halfway through.

But it didn't cost them anything to do that, I mean for the Kiryu chapters they would have copied and pasted the gameplay they had in Gaiden for the battles

The switch to RPG alienated a ton of people who were long-time brawler fans. This would alienate both sides.

[Ruperto]

Originally posted by Legendary Mr. Tiddles:

Originally posted by Gonzalin:

But it didn't cost them anything to do that, I mean for the Kiryu chapters they would have copied and pasted the gameplay they had in Gaiden for the battles

The switch to RPG alienated a ton of people who were long-time brawler fans. This would alienate both sides.

I stay away from it but because of the poor implementation of its RPG, since I am a Persona player and its way of giving you advantages in combat if you have certain confidants or attacks that, for example, bounce off the attacks of your enemies, make it enjoyable, but Yakuza RPGs have none of that

[tools guy-kun]

That just sounds like a terrible idea. I know this is rude to say. Mean, even. But I’m just being brutally honest.

Having two completely different combat systems in one story is not only seriously inconsistent, but sours down the experience as well.

With this idea implemented, you’d have the player base dreading one character’s portion of the story to rush into the other that they favor.

[Valk]

Originally posted by Whopi:

Originally posted by Legendary Mr. Tiddles:

The switch to RPG alienated a ton of people who were long-time brawler fans. This would alienate both sides.

I stay away from it but because of the poor implementation of its RPG, since I am a Persona player and its way of giving you advantages in combat if you have certain confidants or attacks that, for example, bounce off the attacks of your enemies, make it enjoyable, but Yakuza RPGs have none of that

Tbh, MOST rpgs do not have that. And most of them are better off that way. Persona's system is great in some ways, but in others it is absolutely horrific. It trivialises the game difficulty to an obscene extent for those who invest into doing the side stuff heavily, and punishes those who didn't by potentially forcing them to replay the entire game if they only did them too late in the game. It is one way of making a combat system, and not THE way of making a combat system. Your personal preference does not make it "poorly implemented" at all, it just makes it your personal preference.

Originally posted by Whopi:

They could have done like in Yakuza 0 that every 2 chapters the game changed between Ichiban and Kiryu, with the latter having the brawler gameplay and when changing to Ichiban the RPG returned.

Since I find that they left Kiryu in a bad light that in the parts where we are with Kiryu without Ichiban in the group he still has the RPG combat since it gives the impression that Kiryu also sees the world as an RPG game like Ichiban and knowing the personality of Kiryu would not imagine anything in the fights

And just no. Plain and simple no. It would cause a huge tonal shock every time it switched, would force people to learn two completely different systems to play the game correctly, would alienate yet more people ontop of those who felt turned off by the shift to an RPG, and generally wouldn't improve the game in any meaningful way whatsoever. Remember how people felt about Haruka's section of Yakuza 5? People who were already fans of things like buyo dancing, karaoke, disco, etc were alright with it, but those who were not a fan of those minigames found her entire section to be completely insufferable, and she only takes up like 10% of the games entire runtime, if not less.

[BeefoTheBold]

LAD8 got a lot of things wrong, particularly with the story, but I honestly have to stick up for the "one game, one type of combat" system.

I myself vastly prefer the brawler system of combat, but my wife has carpal tunnel and literally would be unable to play the game without the turn based PRG combat. So her getting halfway through and then needing to stop playing would have been a very bad experience for her.

[Rabbit]

Originally posted by Whopi:

They could have done like in Yakuza 0 that every 2 chapters the game changed between Ichiban and Kiryu, with the latter having the brawler gameplay and when changing to Ichiban the RPG returned.

Since I find that they left Kiryu in a bad light that in the parts where we are with Kiryu without Ichiban in the group he still has the RPG combat since it gives the impression that Kiryu also sees the world as an RPG game like Ichiban and knowing the personality of Kiryu would not imagine anything in the fights

They literally addressed Kiryu's perspective shift IN the game

[arronax06]

The point of having Kiryu have the RPG perspective is to address his failing strength due to his illness, and his new willingness to accept help from his "party". I think it makes sense narratively.

[BeefoTheBold]

Originally posted by Sable main:

Originally posted by Whopi:

They could have done like in Yakuza 0 that every 2 chapters the game changed between Ichiban and Kiryu, with the latter having the brawler gameplay and when changing to Ichiban the RPG returned.

Since I find that they left Kiryu in a bad light that in the parts where we are with Kiryu without Ichiban in the group he still has the RPG combat since it gives the impression that Kiryu also sees the world as an RPG game like Ichiban and knowing the personality of Kiryu would not imagine anything in the fights

They literally addressed Kiryu's perspective shift IN the game

They did do it... in a very handwavey sort of way intended to build up Kasuga.

I have a hard time believing that Ichiban would influence Kiryu's way of thinking so much after a couple of days together that he too starts seeing the world around him like a Dragon Quest game. It is a bit like that scene in "Thank You For Smoking" where they justify smoking in space by saying "Thank god we invented the...whatever...device."

They needed some in-game written reasoning to not change up the combat when they switched protagonists but the one they came up with was about as lazy and half-***** as they come.

[Valk]

Originally posted by BeefoTheBold:

Originally posted by Sable main:

They literally addressed Kiryu's perspective shift IN the game

They did do it... in a very handwavey sort of way intended to build up Kasuga.

I have a hard time believing that Ichiban would influence Kiryu's way of thinking so much after a couple of days together that he too starts seeing the world around him like a Dragon Quest game. It is a bit like that scene in "Thank You For Smoking" where they justify smoking in space by saying "Thank god we invented the...whatever...device."

They needed some in-game written reasoning to not change up the combat when they switched protagonists but the one they came up with was about as lazy and half-***** as they come.

And yet, if they DIDNT do that "handwavey sort of way" as you put it, then suddenly the combat wouldn't work. There would be 0 reason for why Kiryu would see it as that.

[BeefoTheBold]

Originally posted by Valk:

Originally posted by BeefoTheBold:

They did do it... in a very handwavey sort of way intended to build up Kasuga.

I have a hard time believing that Ichiban would influence Kiryu's way of thinking so much after a couple of days together that he too starts seeing the world around him like a Dragon Quest game. It is a bit like that scene in "Thank You For Smoking" where they justify smoking in space by saying "Thank god we invented the...whatever...device."

They needed some in-game written reasoning to not change up the combat when they switched protagonists but the one they came up with was about as lazy and half-***** as they come.

And yet, if they DIDNT do that "handwavey sort of way" as you put it, then suddenly the combat wouldn't work. There would be 0 reason for why Kiryu would see it as that.

Agreed. I'm not arguing the point that they needed some sort of in-universe explanation.

I just wish that they had come up with some sort of BETTER explanation. Or maybe they use the same sort of combat but Kiryu sees the enemies how they really look. Something.

The writing of this game violated a lot of the "show, don't tell" rules of writing. You SHOW in subtle ways how Kiryu is being influenced by Ichiban. (Maybe by bringing back a little of Kiryu's own playful/light hearted side that we've seen often over the various games?) You don't openly proclaim it.

They are just so invested in the idea that Kiryu and Ichiban are both twin dragons that they are kinda shoving it down peoples' throats with the approach of "Ichi is so awesome that after a couple of days together he's influencing Kiryu-san this much!"

Also, if that is the route that they want to go, they should show Ichiban being a bit more influenced the other direction as well. Give him a bit more chill, gravitas, self-reflection, intelligence and discipline...which they really don't.

[Valk]

Originally posted by BeefoTheBold:

Originally posted by Valk:

And yet, if they DIDNT do that "handwavey sort of way" as you put it, then suddenly the combat wouldn't work. There would be 0 reason for why Kiryu would see it as that.

Agreed. I'm not arguing the point that they needed some sort of in-universe explanation.

I just wish that they had come up with some sort of BETTER explanation. Or maybe they use the same sort of combat but Kiryu sees the enemies how they really look. Something.

The writing of this game violated a lot of the "show, don't tell" rules of writing. You SHOW in subtle ways how Kiryu is being influenced by Ichiban. (Maybe by bringing back a little of Kiryu's own playful/light hearted side that we've seen often over the various games?) You don't openly proclaim it.

They are just so invested in the idea that Kiryu and Ichiban are both twin dragons that they are kinda shoving it down peoples' throats with the approach of "Ichi is so awesome that after a couple of days together he's influencing Kiryu-san this much!"

Also, if that is the route that they want to go, they should show Ichiban being a bit more influenced the other direction as well. Give him a bit more chill, gravitas, self-reflection, intelligence and discipline...which they really don't.

It isn't just the transforming though. Its things like the turn based system itself, the poundmates system, the attacks, the classes, and so on. They're so deeply linked to the game system that you can't just go "Kiryu would just not see the transformation but everything else still happens".

It is also not strictly about twin dragons tbh. . That would be Ryuji Goda, or Shibusawa. They're quite literally dragons going head to head with each other. Ichiban is a dragonfish. Kiryu is the wise ancient dragon, and Ichiban is trying to become a dragon.

It also isn't just Ichiban either. The game very heavily implies that everyone is affecting Kiryu. The party members, Date, the people he meets in the memoirs, the villains, etc. Everyone is affecting him and giving him back his will to live. It sure as hell shows those without telling, it only gives you the direct tell to explain why Kiryu is now suddenly hallucinating Ichiban style, despite never having been like that before.

[diego473747]

Originally posted by Whopi:

They could have done like in Yakuza 0 that every 2 chapters the game changed between Ichiban and Kiryu, with the latter having the brawler gameplay and when changing to Ichiban the RPG returned.

Since I find that they left Kiryu in a bad light that in the parts where we are with Kiryu without Ichiban in the group he still has the RPG combat since it gives the impression that Kiryu also sees the world as an RPG game like Ichiban and knowing the personality of Kiryu would not imagine anything in the fights

While that idea might been interesting, It IS incredibly hard and almost impossible to do.

Consider how much stuff goes into a brawler game Gameplay wise and how many tweaks and stuff that has to be done to make the combat good, take for example yakuza 6 and lost judgement and how combat and enemy reaction are different.

Now making a hybrid of a full fledged turn based RPG and a brawler is complicated.

So yeah maybe they did the kiryu thing because lets be honest, on an RPG Who would fight normal looking enemies after fighting enemies that look interesting

[Shinneh]

Kiryu, famously lacking in whimsy.