The main cast's personalities really clash with their ages.

[Foolishバカ]

I know this is not really new for RGG games, but the cast's personalities skew way too juvenile considering half of them are hovering near 50. The whole gimmick of Ichiban's games also hinge on his hyperactive imagination which is why he sees most enemies in such goofy ways. Also, for a game fairly open portrayals of the violence of society, I'm convinced that the whole cast is virgins based on how flustered they get at the mention of anything sexual. Before I get flamed for this, I know this is a common Japanese/anime trope.

Not gonna lie, I prefer this to a forced relationships or sex scenes; but it's still awkward to witness nonetheless.

Honestly, Ichiban and company behave more like middle or high schoolers. I wonder how a RGG game with a child/adolescent cast in a school setting would fare. Then again, that's already 99% of anime on the market...

Meh

[Metal Izanagi]

Ichiban lost basically half of his adult life to prison. He was in for what, 18 years? It's no real wonder that he still acts like he's in his 20's

Chitose is legit young so her acting like a young adult is normal.

Everyone else mostly acts their age tbh, and I'm pretty sure nearly all of them are legit virgins. Most have pretty serious personality quirks that are offputting to "normal" people.

[Foolishバカ]

Originally posted by Metal Izanagi:

Ichiban lost basically half of his adult life to prison. He was in for what, 18 years? It's no real wonder that he still acts like he's in his 20's

Chitose is legit young so her acting like a young adult is normal.

Everyone else mostly acts their age tbh, and I'm pretty sure nearly all of them are legit virgins. Most have pretty serious personality quirks that are offputting to "normal" people.

Yeah I know, but an 18 year sentence will definitely change you, Ichiban might as well have been cryogenically frozen based how he came out his normal goofy, chirpy self. RGG really likes to skirt around the issue that their heart-of-gold protagonists are active gang members.

[Metal Izanagi]

Originally posted by Foolishエキス:

Originally posted by Metal Izanagi:

Ichiban lost basically half of his adult life to prison. He was in for what, 18 years? It's no real wonder that he still acts like he's in his 20's

Chitose is legit young so her acting like a young adult is normal.

Everyone else mostly acts their age tbh, and I'm pretty sure nearly all of them are legit virgins. Most have pretty serious personality quirks that are offputting to "normal" people.

Yeah I know, but an 18 year sentence will definitely change you, Ichiban might as well have been cryogenically frozen based how he came out his normal goofy, chirpy self. RGG really likes to skirt around the issue that their heart-of-gold protagonists are active gang members.

tbf most of them are actually *really bad* at being gang members. Kiryu is notably told at least a few times during the series that he's not a very good yakuza because he's too nice. Ichiban is shown to have earned his "Ichibad" nickname when he refuses to take the money from both of the collection jobs we see him do before he goes to jail in 7. And considering the way everyone reacts it seems like he does this pretty much every time and only never got kicked out of the family because Arakawa likes him and appreciates that he's the one dude giving the family a *good* reputation on the street.

Even Majima, our resident crazy knife guy, afaik doesn't even kill people with his knife but everyone is terrified because instead he just makes his enemies wish he'd stabbed them.

[parent child bowl]

As someone that professionally deals with thousands of adults every month, I can tell you that except for Ichiban noone's really acting weird.

[someoneproud]

I don't much buy that people of a certain age must act a certain way, I often think of that C.S. Lewis quote: “When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

A grown ass adult should have the strength of will and confidence to behave in a way that's true to themselves without submitting to other peoples assessments. I'm not really a fan of Ichiban but he's not some coward that lets other people dictate who he should be and I do respect that at least.

The protagonists are very rarely active gang members though, they're usually kicked out or retired during the events of the story. It's implied Kiryu was an active member between 0 and 1 but really that's it, he's out through most of 0 and by the end of 1 he's out entirely.

Ichiban was basically a carer that happened to be sworn to a Yakuza patriarch, never saw him getting involved in any rough stuff and he was fully out by the end of 7's prologue.

The way I see it the series isn't really about gang members, never was. Yakuza was always a stupid name for the games in the west, SoA really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ that (among many other things) up imo.

It's about the folks left behind by a rigid society with very little forgiveness or room for second chances. Often these people fall into gangs by necessity and an ex gang member makes for a believable badass so that's the best fit for a protagonist, but then there are also people who turn to other elements of the subsociety like prostitution, illegal immigration and homeless camps whose situations and stories are covered regularly and sympathetically.

[arronax06]

That's the secret we learn by getting old: in their head, adults and old people are still just the children they were, there is no switch that happens by getting older when you suddenly "become an adult" :) . Getting responsabilities (like getting kids) can change that a little, but most of the time, we're merely pretending to be grown ups :) .

[Rocky McRockerson]

I'm not sure I see how they act juvenile. I know people who act just like them if not worse at all different ages. I remember a few people around 50-70 who were really goofy people.

Originally posted by arronax06:

That's the secret we learn by getting old: in their head, adults and old people are still just the children they were, there is no switch that happens by getting older when you suddenly "become an adult" :) . Getting responsabilities (like getting kids) can change that a little, but most of the time, we're merely pretending to be grown ups :) .

Whilst I was typing my reply, I saw this and honestly, it says it better than I ever could. A person is a person, and the shift from 17 to 18 or 39 to 40 doesn't change that.

[NATIK]

Ichiban is crazy, it has nothing to do with his age or maturity, the guy is just plain crazy and living in his own fantasy world.

People befriend him and stick around him because he is lovable and genuinely a good guy who wants everyone to be happy and will do anything towards that. They accept that he is just crazy because they know that his craziness is why he can keep being optimistic and positive no matter what life throws at him.

As someone whose teens are several decades away now I can also say that I still feel exactly the same inside as I did back then. I have gotten older and wiser and able to put up a facade to hide it when I deem it necessary, but I am still just as goofy and silly as I was back then. Everyone I have talked to over the years say the same, they essentially feel exactly like the person they were in their mid teens to early twenties they just have responsibilities and circumstances that mean they cannot project that self in that way anymore.

Ichiban never learned to hide himself, he is the same guy he was before going to prison because he doesn't understand that society thinks he should act different, not because he lacks maturity but because he is crazy and lives in a world of his imagination.

[Metal Izanagi]

Originally posted by NATIK:

Ichiban is crazy, it has nothing to do with his age or maturity, the guy is just plain crazy and living in his own fantasy world.

People befriend him and stick around him because he is lovable and genuinely a good guy who wants everyone to be happy and will do anything towards that. They accept that he is just crazy because they know that his craziness is why he can keep being optimistic and positive no matter what life throws at him.

As someone whose teens are several decades away now I can also say that I still feel exactly the same inside as I did back then. I have gotten older and wiser and able to put up a facade to hide it when I deem it necessary, but I am still just as goofy and silly as I was back then. Everyone I have talked to over the years say the same, they essentially feel exactly like the person they were in their mid teens to early twenties they just have responsibilities and circumstances that mean they cannot project that self in that way anymore.

Ichiban never learned to hide himself, he is the same guy he was before going to prison because he doesn't understand that society thinks he should act different, not because he lacks maturity but because he is crazy and lives in a world of his imagination.

Pretty much this yeah. Ichi isn't all there in his head and that's okay because he doesn't let being crazy define his actions.

[BeefoTheBold]

Originally posted by Metal Izanagi:

Ichiban lost basically half of his adult life to prison. He was in for what, 18 years? It's no real wonder that he still acts like he's in his 20's

To me, this is an argument for why Ichiban is written in an very weird way. Prison is an EXTREMELY UNPLEASANT PLACE. Him losing half of his adult life to prison is the sort of thing that I would expect to make him grow up fast, not to keep him acting like a little kid.

In particular, going to prison for almost two decades for a crime he didn't actually commit.

Far from being an excuse for his immaturity and childishness, I would think it would harden him.

Hell, Kiryu had an assassination attempt while he was in prison. It has not been shown as a pleasant place to be in any of the Yakuza games.

Most people who go to prison don't emerge MORE innocent when they come out.

[Rocky McRockerson]

Originally posted by BeefoTheBold:

Originally posted by Metal Izanagi:

Ichiban lost basically half of his adult life to prison. He was in for what, 18 years? It's no real wonder that he still acts like he's in his 20's

To me, this is an argument for why Ichiban is written in an very weird way. Prison is an EXTREMELY UNPLEASANT PLACE. Him losing half of his adult life to prison is the sort of thing that I would expect to make him grow up fast, not to keep him acting like a little kid.

In particular, going to prison for almost two decades for a crime he didn't actually commit.

Far from being an excuse for his immaturity and childishness, I would think it would harden him.

Hell, Kiryu had an assassination attempt while he was in prison. It has not been shown as a pleasant place to be in any of the Yakuza games.

Most people who go to prison don't emerge MORE innocent when they come out.

Ichiban did it to please Arakawa, so to him it probably felt like nothing being in there for 18 years to appease him.

Do remember, this is a game. There are a lot of weird things like this.

[NATIK]

Originally posted by BeefoTheBold:

Most people who go to prison don't emerge MORE innocent when they come out.

It is made pretty clear in the last game that prison is "hard" on Ichiban too. he got a few years more added to his sentence for a fight and we see guys try to bully him. However we also see that Ichiban spends the entire prison sentence living in the fantasy of getting out and getting to rejoin the Arakawa family. His fantasies are his shield against hardship.

Honestly the things that happened to Ichi before and after his prison sentence are probably worse than what happens in prison as is made plenty clear in Yakuza: LAD.

Ichiban says he has always been into Dragon Quest and that he would spend as much time as possible on it as a kid. It's pretty clear he adopted a fantasy world to avoid facing reality and he stayed in that world to some degree ever since.

In Ichiban's world the Yakuza are noble samurai/knights who live by a code of conduct and honor and serve the people, rather than organized crime. In his world he is a heroic representative of this nobility rather than a petty criminal running errands. He believes in the ultimate goodness in everything and everyone regardless of any evidence to the contrary, as we see with Masumi, Nanba and Masato in LAD and Chitose, Tomizawa, Eiji and Yamai in IW, just to name a few.

Ichiban changes reality in his mind to make it palatable for him giving him his very own unique set of responses to things that happen. This is why he stays innocent regardless of what he experiences.

[BeefoTheBold]

Originally posted by Rocky McRockerson:

Originally posted by BeefoTheBold:

To me, this is an argument for why Ichiban is written in an very weird way. Prison is an EXTREMELY UNPLEASANT PLACE. Him losing half of his adult life to prison is the sort of thing that I would expect to make him grow up fast, not to keep him acting like a little kid.

In particular, going to prison for almost two decades for a crime he didn't actually commit.

Far from being an excuse for his immaturity and childishness, I would think it would harden him.

Hell, Kiryu had an assassination attempt while he was in prison. It has not been shown as a pleasant place to be in any of the Yakuza games.

Most people who go to prison don't emerge MORE innocent when they come out.

Ichiban did it to please Arakawa, so to him it probably felt like nothing being in there for 18 years to appease him.

Do remember, this is a game. There are a lot of weird things like this.

Ehhhh. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far. Like, Kiryu went to prison for his sworn brother and it definitely was shown as being very hard on him. Those years aren't nothing.

And, in fact, if it is portrayed as nothing then it DIMINISHES THE SACRIFICE such a thing entails. It makes Ichiban less impressive if having 18 years of his life stolen from him has no material impact on him.

I do get that it is a game, and we have to accept certain things as canon such as how Kiryu is both still a virgin and has never killed anyone...throwing a grenade into a nearby helicopter being the latest example of how he's most definitely never killed anyone before...

But Ichiban's attitude just is so incredibly hard to square with his life story and age that it just goes to far for me to do that suspension of disbelief.

And it just happens a lot for me personally. Like that super beating he takes for Eiji at the end. If I try REAAAAALLY hard I can imagine him still preemptively forgiving Eiji despite Eiji never ASKING to be forgiven or showing any remorse.

Standing there and just taking blow after blow? Nah. That's not a real person there.

[BeefoTheBold]

Originally posted by NATIK:

Originally posted by BeefoTheBold:

Most people who go to prison don't emerge MORE innocent when they come out.

It is made pretty clear in the last game that prison is "hard" on Ichiban too. he got a few years more added to his sentence for a fight and we see guys try to bully him. However we also see that Ichiban spends the entire prison sentence living in the fantasy of getting out and getting to rejoin the Arakawa family. His fantasies are his shield against hardship.

Honestly the things that happened to Ichi before and after his prison sentence are probably worse than what happens in prison as is made plenty clear in Yakuza: LAD.

Ichiban says he has always been into Dragon Quest and that he would spend as much time as possible on it as a kid. It's pretty clear he adopted a fantasy world to avoid facing reality and he stayed in that world to some degree ever since.

In Ichiban's world the Yakuza are noble samurai/knights who live by a code of conduct and honor and serve the people, rather than organized crime. In his world he is a heroic representative of this nobility rather than a petty criminal running errands. He believes in the ultimate goodness in everything and everyone regardless of any evidence to the contrary, as we see with Masumi, Nanba and Masato in LAD and Chitose, Tomizawa, Eiji and Yamai in IW, just to name a few.

Ichiban changes reality in his mind to make it palatable for him giving him his very own unique set of responses to things that happen. This is why he stays innocent regardless of what he experiences.

There was someone in another thread who posited the idea that Ichiban is just legitimately crazy in the way he is so broken. And I actually like that interpretation of him.

It adds a lot more nuance and depth to his character if you imagine him as just a broken individual who has adopted this persona we see. That he suffered so much that the real him just kinda got buried a bit under the coping mechanism.

I'd love it if this was explored a bit more with his character and I think it was a real lost opportunity in this last game to give him some much needed depth and character growth. We see him in the previous game actually get REALLY angry and almost beat a defenseless guy to death before Kiryu steps in and stops him while his friends watch in horror.

I actually really liked that scene because it made him more three dimensional. It gave depths to his personality rather than making him a caricature of goodness.

Genuinely good guys, even the most pure hearted of people, have their breaking points. They can get angry and snap...or whatever. In this game, except for VERY briefly at the beginning, we just never really see much of that kind of nuance. He's one-note all the way through.

This could very well be a YMMV thing that they really leaned pretty hard on some Japanese Anime tropes and for the most part I'm not a big fan of Japanese anime.

[JCKLNTRN]

Incorporating both the realistic and unrealistic, the serious and the absurd, is part of the charm of the series.